Can a newer coach and staff devrlop the yiunger players faster?

[impactplaya]

one of my concerns I seen through 2018 was lack of development with the players that had 4 years or younger on this roster.
I'd see guys having to start due to injury and it for most part it looked like they simply werent ready. The game was too big
for them or when the moment called for them to step up they failed.
unfortunately I think this really torpedoed the season and was a factor why we stand here minus Lewis.
around thev league I see young players under 27 yrs old and they step in and play good at a high level.
I watched 2 Steelers rookies make big time plays Sunday..Washington and Samuels they were key in late scoring
drives.
Lanar Jackson gets the Ravens in the playoffs.
that rookie LB for the Colts making plays all year. big catalyst in their late season surge.
I can go around the league.
but in Cincy we got solid rookie yrs from Hubbard and Bates but in the 2nd half they really didnt show up much
vs better competition.
Id like see a new coaching staff that can accelerate these young guys and put them in roles to succeed.

[Whatever]

(01-01-2019, 02:28 PM)impactplaya Wrote: one of my concerns I seen through 2018 was lack of development with the players that had 4 years or younger on this roster.
I'd see guys having to start due to injury and it for most part it looked like they simply werent ready. The game was too big
for them or when the moment called for them to step up they failed.
unfortunately I think this really torpedoed the season and was a factor why we stand here minus Lewis.
around thev league I see young players under 27 yrs old and they step in and play good at a high level.
I watched 2 Steelers rookies make big time plays Sunday..Washington and Samuels they were key in late scoring
drives.
Lanar Jackson gets the Ravens in the playoffs.
that rookie LB for the Colts making plays all year. big catalyst in their late season surge.
I can go around the league.
but in Cincy we got solid rookie yrs from Hubbard and Bates but in the 2nd half they really didnt show up much
vs better competition.
Id like see a new coaching staff that can accelerate these young guys and put them in roles to succeed.

A lot of that is game planning and taking advantage of player strengths versus running a static system and expecting players to fit into it.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-01-2019, 02:28 PM)impactplaya Wrote: one of my concerns I seen through 2018 was lack of development with the players that had 4 years or younger on this roster.
I'd see guys having to start due to injury and it for most part it looked like they simply werent ready. The game was too big
for them or when the moment called for them to step up they failed.
unfortunately I think this really torpedoed the season and was a factor why we stand here minus Lewis.
around thev league I see young players under 27 yrs old and they step in and play good at a high level.
I watched 2 Steelers rookies make big time plays Sunday..Washington and Samuels they were key in late scoring
drives.
Lanar Jackson gets the Ravens in the playoffs.
that rookie LB for the Colts making plays all year. big catalyst in their late season surge.
I can go around the league.
but in Cincy we got solid rookie yrs from Hubbard and Bates but in the 2nd half they really didnt show up much
vs better competition.
Id like see a new coaching staff that can accelerate these young guys and put them in roles to succeed.

Every team has players that don;t develop or are not good enough to develop so im not buying we can;t develop players, i can list players who have shined for the bengals also over the years that were drafted by this team .  To compare washington as developing over the first year is just factual wrong, the guy had 16 catches and 1 TD, he had 3 catches against Bengals.... who knows if he is going to be good,  Bates was solid throughout the season for a rookie, Hubbard did not disappear, had a outstanding game in week 15 against Oakland, had 4 tackles and 1 QB hit against Pittsburgh.  

The problem is less on development and better drafts... we actually do develop players under Marvin since we hardly go FA, we have to develop from draft.. If drafting was so easy every high pick would be an All Pro, that just does not happen

[t3r3e3]

They can’t be any slower. Glaciers moved faster than Marvin Lewis developing rookies and young guys.

[HarleyDog]

(01-01-2019, 03:55 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: They can’t be any slower. Glaciers moved faster than Marvin Lewis developing rookies and young guys.

The sad part is it’s true.

[impactplaya]

(01-01-2019, 03:26 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Every team has players that don;t develop or are not good enough to develop so im not buying we can;t develop players, i can list players who have shined for the bengals also over the years that were drafted by this team .  To compare washington as developing over the first year is just factual wrong, the guy had 16 catches and 1 TD, he had 3 catches against Bengals.... who knows if he is going to be good,  Bates was solid throughout the season for a rookie, Hubbard did not disappear, had a outstanding game in week 15 against Oakland, had 4 tackles and 1 QB hit against Pittsburgh.  

The problem is less on development and better drafts... we actually do develop players under Marvin since we hardly go FA, we have to develop from draft.. If drafting was so easy every high pick would be an All Pro, that just does not happen

I think Hubbard did ok vs the Steelers. but he had Ben wrapped up but let Ben escape and keep that drive alive.which lead to JuJu TD.
I dont think Vigil had a great game either..yeah he made alot of tackles.but he whiffed on Samuels or McDonald
in the 4th q on a 3rd down pass.
Ive just seen too many guys in position to make plays in 2018 and not finish.
James Washington runs a go route on Russell and converts a 47 yd pass. 
what did Josh Malone do the whole game?

[fredtoast]

(01-01-2019, 04:12 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think Hubbard did ok vs the Steelers. but he had Ben wrapped up but let Ben escape and keep that drive alive.which lead to JuJu TD.
I dont think Vigil had a great game either..yeah he made alot of tackles.but he whiffed on Samuels or McDonald
in the 4th q on a 3rd down pass.
Ive just seen too many guys in position to make plays in 2018 and not finish.
James Washington runs a go route on Russell and converts a 47 yd pass. 
what did Josh Malone do the whole game?

Is this serious?

you are disregarding 99% of the season and judging players on 4 or 5 plays?

If you judge only on big plays how about this.  Only 5 rookie defensive players scored tds.  The Bengals had two of them.

[fredtoast]

Sorry that I have not updated the following nunbers to include the 2018 season, but we had two rookie full time starters this year plus Hubbard who was #1 among all rookie D-linemen in sacks and 3rd in tackles.


According to profootballreference over the last ten years ('08-'17) there have been 227 different rookies who started at least 14 games. Since there are 32 teams that is an average of 7.1 per team. Over the last ten years the Bengals have 7 different rookies who have started at least 14 games.

When we expand it beyond just rookie seasons it does not change very much. Looking at the first three seasons of every player's career over the last 10 years there were 785 who had at least one season with at least 14 starts in his first three years. That is an average of 24.5 per team, and the Bengals have had 24.

233 players had two seasons with at least 14 starts in their first 3 years. That is an average of 7.6 per team and the Bengals have had 7.

Only 80 players started at least 14 games in each of their first three seasons. That is an average of 2.5 per team and the Bengals have had 3.

My argument has always been that good teams play rookies less than bad teams. But by going back 10 years I cover times when the Bengals were bad good, bad, and rebuilding. So it should all average out.

[SunsetBengal]

I think the key to players developing quickly has more to do with selecting players with specific skill sets that fit well with whatever scheme or playing style your team uses. Weather it be drafting or acquiring players from other teams rosters, the key is having the scouting department identify the players that fit well with your teams system.

Personally, I think the days of drafting a player with great athletic abilities, but maybe not as equally good football instincts, and expecting them to "develop" into something special at the Professional level, are bygone. Fast guys with hands of stone don't "develop" into good pass catchers in the NFL, just like fast, strong guys that get caught up on blocks in CFB don't suddenly start stoning OGs in their tracks and make spectacular tackles in space.

[*bengalfan74*]

I believe Marvin Lewis and most of the Co. have been very reluctant to try and accentuate rookies and younger players to the best of their ability.

Marvin's philosophy was very rigid, this is what we do and you need to conform. And there's a lot of good in that, but you also have to learn to compromise some.

Marvin wouldn't step out of the box, or very rarely.

[Circleville Guy]

On this topic, my biggest concern is Price. Who takes blame on his horrible play? Is he fully healthy? A lot of his issues seemed to be mental mistakes. Is he better suited at guard? Shouldn’t coaches have seen that and adjusted? Another reason that his development is a concern is that we still need 3 new linemen and they will probably need to be developed too.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-01-2019, 06:57 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: On this topic, my biggest concern is Price. Who takes blame on his horrible play? Is he fully healthy? A lot of his issues seemed to be mental mistakes. Is he better suited at guard? Shouldn’t coaches have seen that and adjusted? Another reason that his development is a concern is that we still need 3 new linemen and they will probably need to be developed too.

The way I see it, the OL needs to be double covered.  And by that I mean draft 2 or 3 players, and pick up at least 2 proven, solid starters through free agency.  That way, you have enough capable bodies to put a solid 5 out there, no matter if the rookies are game ready or not.

[Circleville Guy]

(01-01-2019, 07:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The way I see it, the OL needs to be double covered.  And by that I mean draft 2 or 3 players, and pick up at least 2 proven, solid starters through free agency.  That way, you have enough capable bodies to put a solid 5 out there, no matter if the rookies are game ready or not.

But is there a concern with development because of how crappy Price has looked?

[BengalFanInNJ]

(01-01-2019, 08:21 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: But is there a concern with development because of how crappy Price has looked?

I think a fully healthy offseason with attendance to all the mini-camps and practices will help Price immensely. I am certainly not ready to give up on him yet. 

[SunsetBengal]

(01-01-2019, 08:21 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: But is there a concern with development because of how crappy Price has looked?

I don't think so.  When Price first got injured, the offense was looking pretty good.  By the time he made it back on the field, it was a complete shit show.  Had he not had the foot injury?  I think his development wouldn't even be a question.  I'm willing to withhold judgement, at least until he gets a full and healthy round of OTAs, Camp, Preseason under his belt.  If he looks bad next season, then I'll start complaining about his development.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-01-2019, 07:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The way I see it, the OL needs to be double covered.  And by that I mean draft 2 or 3 players, and pick up at least 2 proven, solid starters through free agency.  That way, you have enough capable bodies to put a solid 5 out there, no matter if the rookies are game ready or not.

Agree, they need free agent Olinemen and LBers as well as drafting a couple each. It would be all but impossible to repair this team in one draft alone.

[Circleville Guy]

(01-01-2019, 08:25 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: I think a fully healthy offseason with attendance to all the mini-camps and practices will help Price immensely. I am certainly not ready to give up on him yet. 

Obviously a full season can’t hurt. It’s just scary after seeing the big whiffs with the 2 tackles.

[Circleville Guy]

(01-01-2019, 08:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't think so.  When Price first got injured, the offense was looking pretty good.  By the time he made it back on the field, it was a complete shit show.  Had he not had the foot injury?  I think his development wouldn't even be a question.  I'm willing to withhold judgement, at least until he gets a full and healthy round of OTAs, Camp, Preseason under his belt.  If he looks bad next season, then I'll start complaining about his development.

Time will tell. I do think that if he doesn’t work at central that they would give him a shot at guard.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-01-2019, 10:39 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Time will tell. I do think that if he doesn’t work at central that they would give him a shot at guard.

Absolutely!