If we could turn back time....(Hiring Marvin Lewis)

[34inXXIII]

Understandably, there has been a lot of talk about Marvin Lewis' legacy on here this week. It's obviously stained by general mediocrity and horrendous playoff losses. Of course, there are those who give him a lot of credit for changing the direction of the league's worst franchise throughout the 90s. I started thinking about whether I would change history back in 2003, if I had the power to do so. Would I be willing to risk the possibility that their futility would continue well into the new millennium without any end in sight to ensure that Marvin would never be hired as the Bengals head coach? Maybe the team would have hired Coughlin and had a chance to make the kind of run that he had with the Giants. Of course, maybe they hire Mike Mularkey, Dennis Green, or Romeo Crennel (or, eventually, each of them).

I don't think I'm alone in saying that I would take my chances with someone else. I'm accustomed to the wretched results across all my sports teams. I'd put the meager success the Bengals had under Marvin on the line for a shot at something better....and maybe that relates to where we are right now. I love Mike Zimmer, but as I tell the local Vikings fans around here, if you pick fruit from the Marvin Lewis coaching tree, don't be surprised when it is rotten. Sticking with the familiar - Hue, Vance, Simmons, etc. - appears unlikely to be any different than signing Marvin all those years ago. That's bound to be attractive to Mike Brown, but it doesn't satisfy the need to once again move in a new direction.

Sadly, we don't have time machines. Depending upon whom the organization hires as its new head coach, though, it may feel like we're headed back to the future.

[*bengalfan74*]

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed Mike will finally take this team in a totally new direction and bring in an outside HC and let him pick his staff.

Doesn't he have to be able to see that the path of least resistance hasn't worked ?

[I_C_DeadPeople]

If I could turn back time I would switch teams and not give a shit what Mike Brown does.

[Bengalholic]

Agreed 34. I think I would take my chances with someone else as well. 

Even though I was pretty excited when they hired Marvin, if we could go back in time knowing what we know now, I think I would rather have Coughlin and see what he could do with this franchise. Of course, that means Mike would've had to give Coughlin more of what he wanted in terms of personnel and scouting control...so that probably wouldn't have happened either. 

I think you make a good point about 'fruit from the Marvin tree' as well, which is why I'm hoping they avoid hiring Vance, Hue or any of the current staff. They need a clean break from the Marvin era...someone who hasn't been associated with it at all.

[Big Boss]

Removing hindsight from the equation completely, I'd have still hired him.

The problem with Marvin Lewis has nothing to do with his initial hire. It has to do with the fact that Mike Brown held onto him way too long. I am forever grateful to Marvin for those first five years he was here. He reshaped the culture, he got this team winning again in a relatively short amount of time, and he made the Cincinnati Bengals more respectable. But he overstayed his welcome, and that's why things ultimately soured.

[34inXXIII]

(01-02-2019, 11:07 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Removing hindsight from the equation completely, I'd have still hired him.  

The problem with Marvin Lewis has nothing to do with his initial hire.  It has to do with the fact that Mike Brown held onto him way too long.  I am forever grateful to Marvin for those first five years he was here.  He reshaped the culture, he got this team winning again in a relatively short amount of time, and he made the Cincinnati Bengals more respectable.  But he overstayed his welcome, and that's why things ultimately soured.

That's a great point. The best course of action may very well have been for Marvin to elevate the team from a debacle of its own making, then letting someone else try to take them the rest of the way. That could arguably have been done in 2008, following just one playoff berth in his first 5 seasons. Considering the talent on the team's horizon (not to mention the possibility of retaining Carson Palmer), who knows what this team could have accomplished. Even with Marvin continuing on into the Dalton era, the epic wild card choke job against San Diego in the 2013 season would have marked a logical time to move on as well.

[*bengalfan74*]

Richard Petty

I haven't watched NASCAR in 10 or 12 years. But back from late 70's thru like early 00's I was a pretty big fan.

If you watched any NASCAR in Petty's final years he was a total non-factor, he should have retired years before he did. Newer fans though he was just some scrub ! I'm not saying Marvin should have retired but he should have had the good sense to get out in 08 or 10. He probably would have been able to move on to better opportunities then.

[2MinutesHate]

Now it's stuck in my head.  Thanks a lot. 

Had we hired Tom Coughlin, I think everything would've been different.  Corey Dillon would not have quit and run everyone into the ground.  If we still picked Palmer, he may have been the greatest Bengal QB ever.  Chad would've stayed Chad Johnson, etc. etc.  Even Mike Brown I think could've changed because it just wouldn't have worked with Coughlin if he didn't change his ways.  The Steelers could very well be sitting where we are now. *sigh*

[I_C_DeadPeople]

Coughlin would never have been able to work with the shoe string budget Tree Sloth. No different really then the Bill Walsh story - could he have worked under Mikey and Paul when he really wanted full control?

[Essex Johnson]

(01-02-2019, 12:52 AM)34inXXIII Wrote: Understandably, there has been a lot of talk about Marvin Lewis' legacy on here this week. It's obviously stained by general mediocrity and horrendous playoff losses. Of course, there are those who give him a lot of credit for changing the direction of the league's worst franchise throughout the 90s. I started thinking about whether I would change history back in 2003, if I had the power to do so. Would I be willing to risk the possibility that their futility would continue well into the new millennium without any end in sight to ensure that Marvin would never be hired as the Bengals head coach? Maybe the team would have hired Coughlin and had a chance to make the kind of run that he had with the Giants. Of course, maybe they hire Mike Mularkey, Dennis Green, or Romeo Crennel (or, eventually, each of them).

I don't think I'm alone in saying that I would take my chances with someone else. I'm accustomed to the wretched results across all my sports teams. I'd put the meager success the Bengals had under Marvin on the line for a shot at something better....and maybe that relates to where we are right now. I love Mike Zimmer, but as I tell the local Vikings fans around here, if you pick fruit from the Marvin Lewis coaching tree, don't be surprised when it is rotten. Sticking with the familiar - Hue, Vance, Simmons, etc. - appears unlikely to be any different than signing Marvin all those years ago. That's bound to be attractive to Mike Brown, but it doesn't satisfy the need to once again move in a new direction.

Sadly, we don't have time machines. Depending upon whom the organization hires as its new head coach, though, it may feel like we're headed back to the future.

Looking back Lewis did an amazing job to turn the bengals and culture of players around, hats off to him on that.