John Ross and his confidence

[*Nately120*]

(01-14-2019, 02:25 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Relax

I simply stated it is easy to say now Mahommes was a great move (trade up and trade Smith).

Did you say this same thing prior to them doing it? Or did you wait until after he sat for a year, then came out playing like a HOF QB?

Kudos, the Chiefs made a bold move and it worked for them big time. But looking back at these type of bold moves the past 40 years, failure is higher than success.

I don't recall saying I was 100% sure Mahommes was going to be great.  I was just pointing out that the idea that even if he had drafted Mahommes he'd be sitting behind Dalton could be argued against by saying that Mahommes showed enough for the Chiefs to trade their starter and put him in as the starter going into year 2.

I'm saying if we had Mahommes there is a chance Dalton goes to Washington and we don't have some sort of "what do we do with 2 QBs" conundrum.  We're going to have to draft and transition to Dalton's replacement eventually, so this isn't about me saying that me and Andy Reid visited a Zoltar machine and magically saw potential in Mahommes.

Anywho, my main point in this topic is that we aren't going to have the "Our old dumb coaches don't know how to use Ross" excuse for 2019. So if our genius HC doesn't think Ross is the bee's knees we might find ourselves in a bit of a jam when it comes time to make excuses. Or Ross could be awesome and everything will be awesome (not really what I've come to expect in Cincy, but you never know).

[BengalsRocker]

(01-14-2019, 02:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't recall saying I was 100% sure Mahommes was going to be great.  I was just pointing out that the idea that even if he had drafted Mahommes he'd be sitting behind Dalton could be argued against by saying that Mahommes showed enough for the Chiefs to trade their starter and put him in as the starter going into year 2.

I'm saying if we had Mahommes there is a chance Dalton goes to Washington and we don't have some sort of "what do we do with 2 QBs" conundrum.  We're going to have to draft and transition to Dalton's replacement eventually, so this isn't about me saying that me and Andy Reid visited a Zoltar machine and magically saw potential in Mahommes.

Anywho, my main point in this topic is that we aren't going to have the "Our old dumb coaches don't know how to use Ross" excuse for 2019.  So if our genius HC doesn't think Ross is the bee's knees we might find ourselves in a bit of a jam when it comes time to make excuses.  Or Ross could be awesome and everything will be awesome (not really what I've come to expect in Cincy, but you never know).

Damn... and here I thought everybody visited a Zoltar machine with Andy.

He even bought me an elephant ear.

[*Nately120*]

(01-14-2019, 03:04 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Damn... and here I thought everybody visited a Zoltar machine with Andy.

He even bought me an elephant ear.

The notion that Andy Reid would be able to resist the fried sugary lure of an elephant ear in order to let you have one is the least believable part of this story. I can imagine going to a fair and trying to buy an elephant ear and being told that Andy Reid ate them all...again.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(01-14-2019, 12:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I share the same position on Ross. And I don't believe he was drafted to be a WR1 anyway. I think he was seen as a WR2/3.
He still has two years to go on his rookie contract (three if his option is picked up). There's time for him to develop without being a financial burden.
However, if the team is not going to depend on him for the future, they need to extend Green and/or Boyd.
I think Boyd is for sure extended, probably 3-4 years. Green probably should get a 2-year extension, but he may want to chase a ring based on how 2019 goes.

Picked #9 in the draft you had better be capable of being the #1 guy. As for him 'opening up the filed for others with his vertical game', child please. This is only valid if he ran the right routes and caught the balls near him. He was very little of a threat in our offense. 

I am sure by the end of TC we will know if he still has potential or not or if he is a write-off. 

[Luvnit2]

(01-14-2019, 03:15 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Picked #9 in the draft you had better be capable of being the #1 guy. As for him 'opening up the filed for others with his vertical game', child please. This is only valid if he ran the right routes and caught the balls near him. He was very little of a threat in our offense. 

I am sure by the end of TC we will know if he still has potential or not or if he is a write-off. 

You may be correct, he was drafted to be a number one.

Just keep in mind, if that was the plan, then the plan is never to extend Green (or was not to extend him) as teams can't afford to pay 2 #1's (Green now and Ross's second contract)

[mon4078]

(01-14-2019, 12:52 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: If we would have drafted Mahones he would still be sitting on the bench behind Andy. 

I agree, what I meant by my statement was it seems like he people want to look back at the draft and say we got Ross when we could have had Mahomes. Ross was never a popular pick to begin and now that we can see how some of the players that got drafted behind him have turned out it makes people hate the pick even more. Honestly at the time I wanted to trade back and take Foster, glad we didn't now.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(01-14-2019, 03:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You may be correct, he was drafted to be a number one.

Just keep in mind, if that was the plan, then the plan is never to extend Green (or was not to extend him) as teams can't afford to pay 2 #1's (Green now and Ross's second contract)

You need multiple weapons regardless if he played at the number 2 spot or number 1. But you simply dont use a 9th overall as the number 2 guy long term. I suspect they thought more like 1 and 1a for Green and Ross. Instead they get 1 and 9d. 

[*psychdoctor*]

(01-13-2019, 07:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My position on Ross.

Give him a chance, he still has a lot of potential.  But at the same time don't plan or depend on him contributing much of anything.

Ross is an enigma.  I have never known of a small receiver like him being so effective in the red zone, but having almost no production between the 20's where theoretically the filed should be opened up giving him more room to maneuver.

Fair and true assessment IMO.  

[McC]

(01-14-2019, 06:43 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Fair and true assessment IMO.  

It's kinda perplexing that when you see how they used him at Washington, that the Bengals decided to use him in almost none of those ways.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-14-2019, 02:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Anywho, my main point in this topic is that we aren't going to have the "Our old dumb coaches don't know how to use Ross" excuse for 2019.  So if our genius HC doesn't think Ross is the bee's knees we might find ourselves in a bit of a jam when it comes time to make excuses.  Or Ross could be awesome and everything will be awesome (not really what I've come to expect in Cincy, but you never know).

Pffft, as if.

"2020 is basically just his 4th Rookie season." is already loaded in the magazine, just waiting for the 2019 edition to be shot so it can go in the chamber to be used next.

[*psychdoctor*]

(01-14-2019, 06:45 PM)McC Wrote: It's kinda perplexing that when you see how they used him at Washington, that the Bengals decided to use him in almost none of those ways.

I think that Lewis had a different player in mind at #9 in the draft and Ross was picked, he wasn't thrilled.  Ross was injury prone before the draft and red flags were everywhere and he was injured his first year.  Add on top of this his inability to position himself to make catches, learn the playbook, and drops led him to Lewis's doghouse. 

As I stated before, it is the coaches responsibility to place the player in position to be successful and the coaching staff did not do this well.  But I also have to be realistic about other factors.  One, Dalton has trouble in accuracy with long passes.  Two, the O-Line situation was porous and did not give the Dalton-Ross connection to unfold.  So the team tried gadget plays like reversals and short routes.  On occasion they tried to go deep to Ross, but missed.    

I think AJ Green has done well moving to the slot on occasion.  They should let Ross just fly down the field to keep one of the safeties deep.  

If the light does not come on for Ross this next season, then I would agree that it is time to move on or just use him near in the Red Zone; the guy had a high percentage of TD per reception ratio.  

[BengalsRocker]

(01-14-2019, 03:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The notion that Andy Reid would be able to resist the fried sugary lure of an elephant ear in order to let you have one is the least believable part of this story.  I can imagine going to a fair and trying to buy an elephant ear and being told that Andy Reid ate them all...again.

Well...  he filled up.on fried Twinkies, Dippin' Dots, and corndogs so my elephant ear would've been a thin mint to Mr. Creosote.

He didn't want to press his luck buddy.

[*Nately120*]

(01-14-2019, 06:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Pffft, as if.

"2020 is basically just his 4th Rookie season." is already loaded in the magazine, just waiting for the 2019 edition to be shot so it can go in the chamber to be used next.

I can see it now....

2017 - he's a rookie, Marvin won't play him
2018 - he only got what...4 games with Dalton?  He's a rookie
2019 - he's in a new system with a new OC, plus he's still a rookie
2020 - we need a new QB, can't judge Ross, he's kinda like a rookie
2021 - we have a new QB throwing him the ball, can't judge Ross

Ah, but I kid.  All I'll say is that we had better hope Taylor and his brilliant offensive mind likes John Ross, because we don't have Marvin and Lazor to blame anymore!

[Luvnit2]

(01-14-2019, 08:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can see it now....

2017 - he's a rookie, Marvin won't play him
2018 - he only got what...4 games with Dalton?  He's a rookie
2019 - he's in a new system with a new OC, plus he's still a rookie
2020 - we need a new QB, can't judge Ross, he's kinda like a rookie
2021 - we have a new QB throwing him the ball, can't judge Ross

Ah, but I kid.  All I'll say is that we had better hope Taylor and his brilliant offensive mind likes John Ross, because we don't have Marvin and Lazor to blame anymore!

As long as MB is breathing, fans will have him as an out to blame in their minds.

[The Real Deal]

(01-14-2019, 08:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can see it now....

2017 - he's a rookie, Marvin won't play him
2018 - he only got what...4 games with Dalton?  He's a rookie
2019 - he's in a new system with a new OC, plus he's still a rookie
2020 - we need a new QB, can't judge Ross, he's kinda like a rookie
2021 - we have a new QB throwing him the ball, can't judge Ross

Ah, but I kid.  All I'll say is that we had better hope Taylor and his brilliant offensive mind likes John Ross, because we don't have Marvin and Lazor to blame anymore!

This is getting tiresome. Nobody is blaming anyone. It isn’t about anyone liking him. I truly believe Johns lack of confidence is his biggest problem. If that is the case then only he is to blame and it’s time for him to man up and start playing ball again. John needs to produce, plain and simple. He was given plenty of opportunities last season and while he scored some td’s, the consistency was nonexistent. Quite frankly, he stunk.

I certainly hope the new regime can get more out of him. Sometimes a fresh start can go a long way for a persons mental wellbeing. He will no doubt be given more opportunities in a new scheme this season. Maybe he will thrive, maybe he won’t. And while at this point I lean towards the latter, I really hope it’s the former.

[*ochocincos*]

This whole giving up on routes, running poor routes, lack of effort/desire was nowhere to be seen leading up to the draft. It’s either A) being blown way out of proportion, and/or B) Ross didn’t mesh well with the coaching staff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-14-2019, 08:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This whole giving up on routes, running poor routes, lack of effort/desire was nowhere to be seen leading up to the draft. It’s either A) being blown way out of proportion, and/or B) Ross didn’t mesh well with the coaching staff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I believe the coaching staff did little to help Ross. "Here's what we do kid, go get it".

Should an NFL player be coddled along forever ? NO But in the same breath all players aren't the same and I feel they could have done much more to help build his confidence.

[Bengal Dude]

(01-13-2019, 04:11 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: True, but I think Marvin really didn't like the kid. I have my questions on if MB kinda forced the pick? Either way, I think it's possible to work with the kid and help him regain confidence. Marvin and Lazor handled him poorly.

Ross was not Marvin's preferred pick. I believe Mike, Urban, and possibly Tobin were high on Ross while Marvin and others were wanting OJ Howard.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(01-14-2019, 08:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can see it now....

2017 - he's a rookie, Marvin won't play him
2018 - he only got what...4 games with Dalton?  He's a rookie
2019 - he's in a new system with a new OC, plus he's still a rookie
2020 - we need a new QB, can't judge Ross, he's kinda like a rookie
2021 - we have a new QB throwing him the ball, can't judge Ross

Ah, but I kid.  All I'll say is that we had better hope Taylor and his brilliant offensive mind likes John Ross, because we don't have Marvin and Lazor to blame anymore!

Lol.

[Socal Bengals fan]

I still have slight hope Ross isn’t a bust just because what the Rams did with Woods who wasn’t very good with buffalo. We need more misdirecting , motions , traps just anything to fool the defense and need Dalton to use play action correctly n stay in the damn pocket. Back to Ross if Taylor and his gang can make Woods, Cupp, Nelson n Cook into studs maybe they’ll do the same with Ross. Maybe just maybe. Prob not. Who am I kidding , never mind.