Someone is tearing up the senior bowl

[SunsetBengal]

(01-26-2019, 06:10 PM)Whatever Wrote: This really doesn't give a great picture if you're trying to use it to determine how good a receiver is.  If every route had the same chance of success, teams would just run go routes every play.  Part of the reason Boyd has a higher % than AJ is that he was used primarily in the slot running short routes that result in high % throws.  Ross was primarily sent on deep routes to clear things out for guys like Boyd underneath.  It's like saying one basketball player is better than another because he has a higher FG % when he's mostly shooting lay ups and the other guy is mostly shooting 3 pointers.

Nobody is saying Ross doesn't need to improve, but I don't see how anyone can be totally down on a guy with 7 TD catches, either.

Yeah, I'm going to call BS here.  How do you explain Michael Thomas with an incredible 85% catch rate?  He runs all the routes, not just the short ones.  The mere fact that John Ross is dead, freakin', last in catch rate for the entire NFL is enough evidence to show that either he wasn't trying very hard, or he isn't really that good.  Which is it?  Doesn't matter, as neither answer bodes well for a top 10 pick.

[Whatever]

(01-26-2019, 06:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, I'm going to call BS here.  How do you explain Michael Thomas with an incredible 85% catch rate?  He runs all the routes, not just the short ones.  The mere fact that John Ross is dead, freakin', last in catch rate for the entire NFL is enough evidence to show that either he wasn't trying very hard, or he isn't really that good.  Which is it?  Doesn't matter, as neither answer bodes well for a top 10 pick.

Thomas is arguably the best WR in the league, certainly top 5, has an arguably Top 5 All time QB throwing to him, and he plays in a system created and ran by an offensive genius.  Drew Brees completed over 74% of his passes.  Dalton and Driskell combined for 61%. He runs a full tree, which also means he gets his share of high % throws, too.

He's also not last in the entire league.  He's not even last on the Bengals.  Josh Malone is last on the Bengals at 20%.  Then Auden Tate with 33.3%.  Then Ross at 36.2%.  The only WR's on the Bengals that are over 50% are Boyd, Erickson(both slot guys), and AJ, a future HoF'er who was also used in the slot.

I don't think anybody is going to say Ross hasn't disappointed thus far, but so did every WR in stripes not named AJ Green that weren't primarily lined up in the slot.  I would say if the higher ups were happy with the offense, they wouldn't have cleaned house and be set to hire Taylor and Co.

I have zero issue with drafting a guy to compete with Ross(and Core, Tate, Erickson, and Malone) and let the best man win.  I mean, I don't know what people expect.  A Top 10 pick that scored 7 TD's isn't getting cut entering his 3rd year unless he majorly screws up off the field, especially when the guys behind him were worse.  I guess we can try to label him irredeemable and the coaching changes and another year of experience will do nothing to improve him, but what does that accomplish?  He needs to get better, along with probably about 45 other guys on the team.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-26-2019, 08:46 PM)Whatever Wrote: He's also not last in the entire league.  He's not even last on the Bengals.  Josh Malone is last on the Bengals at 20%.  Then Auden Tate with 33.3%.  Then Ross at 36.2%.  The only WR's on the Bengals that are over 50% are Boyd, Erickson(both slot guys), and AJ, a future HoF'er who was also used in the slot.

You know what I see?  A whole lot of excuses, for a top 10 pick that is failing to live up to expectations..  One more season like this one, and I'm going to rate Ross right up there with Cedric Ogbuehi.

[Whatever]

(01-26-2019, 08:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You know what I see?  A whole lot of excuses, for a top 10 pick that is failing to live up to expectations..  One more season like this one, and I'm going to rate Ross right up there with Cedric Ogbuehi.

Expectations are a funny thing.  All Ross did last year was be the red zone TD machine everyone said Auden Tate was going to be.  If Tate had the season Ross did, everyone would be screaming for him to for him to have a bigger role.  But Ross is trash, apparently, because he didn't have 600-700 yards to go with his TD's.

People make excuses for almost everyone on the roster at some point.  Billings had a ton of excuses made for him.  Price does now.  

He's already well above Og territory.  Ross has actually displayed talent and has actually done things that helped the team win games.  

[SunsetBengal]

(01-26-2019, 09:13 PM)Whatever Wrote: Expectations are a funny thing.  All Ross did last year was be the red zone TD machine everyone said Auden Tate was going to be. 

The expectations are for a top 10 selection at WR to actually play hard between the 20s, as well as in the red zone.  That mere fact that just from watching, you can see him give the effort and apply his talent on those TD catches, and proceed to run lazy routes and short arm passes in the middle of the field tells me much about him.  

[Jpoore]

(01-26-2019, 01:21 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Two rookie years. Had the leagues worst catch percentage by a long ways. Does he get a 3rd rookie season if he doesn't shine this year?

No guarantee the team re-signs Boyd. They didn't re-sign Sanu or Marvin Jones.

2 rookie years bc Lewis wanted to try to be a hard ass and only let him play 9 snaps. And let's not forget how at least 5 TDS passes from 35+ yards where he was wide open and our qb underthrew him by 10+ yards. And u mention catch percentage but let's not forget he also had the worst catchable ball percentage in the league by a ton. Out of his what 60 targets I believe it was only 33 percent of his targets were deemed catchable. And our of those 33 percent of catchable balls he caught 66 percent of them. He has to show up between the 20s this year no doubt. Is he a bust where he was drafted? Yes. But he's not a bust as far as a normal draft pick. Year 3 is always the breakout year for wrs anyways. He can be an elite wr2. As far as Sanu he was never worth as much as he wanted. And Jones wanted the opportunity to be a wr1. We offered the exact same contract.

(01-26-2019, 03:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Determining catch percentage would be kind of tough.  We don't know how many plays the ball was designed to thrown to a spot, rather than to the actual man.  Andy doesn't strike me as the type of individual that would divulge material to make a teammate look bad, so we may never know the statistical truth.

Anyway, I feel like the team would be foolhardy to rely on John Ross for serious production, at this point.  I think that he still has some developing and proving to do.  However, I do believe it is time for the team to start planning for life post AJ Green.  He's absorbed a ton of physical punishment over the years, all of those collisions and injuries add up.  I would completely expect Tyler Boyd to be given at least a 3 year extension, as he has more than proven himself as a reliable go-to-guy, and even clutch at times.  To run a prolific offense like they do in LA, they're going to need some extra receiving weapons.  I wouldn't be surprised at all, if the Bengals add 1-2 receivers capable of threatening the starting lineup, either through free agency or the draft.

There are wr1s in the draft for the first time in a few years. 2 in particular really grab ur eye and one that won't go till rd2 bc of the injury. Do Metcalf and nkeal Harry. As far as Ross, his catchable ball percentage was 33 percent 66 percent of those he caught. I'm expecting about 650-700 yards and 12 TDS.

[BengalChris]

(01-27-2019, 05:06 AM)Jpoore Wrote: 2 rookie years bc Lewis wanted to try to be a hard ass and only let him play 9 snaps. And let's not forget how at least 5 TDS passes from 35+ yards where he was wide open and our qb underthrew him by 10+ yards. And u mention catch percentage but let's not forget he also had the worst catchable ball percentage in the league by a ton. Out of his what 60 targets I believe it was only 33 percent of his targets were deemed catchable. And our of those 33 percent of catchable balls he caught 66 percent of them. He has to show up between the 20s this year no doubt. Is he a bust where he was drafted? Yes. But he's not a bust as far as a normal draft pick. Year 3 is always the breakout year for wrs anyways. He can be an elite wr2. As far as Sanu he was never worth  as much as he wanted. And Jones wanted the opportunity to be a wr1. We offered the exact same contract.
There are wr1s in the draft for the first time in a few years. 2 in particular really grab ur eye and one that won't go till rd2 bc of the injury. Do Metcalf and nkeal Harry. As far as Ross, his catchable ball percentage was 33 percent 66 percent of those he caught. I'm expecting about 650-700 yards and 12 TDS.

When fans have to come up with lots of excuses for a player it is the player who is the problem. Ross couldn't get on the field in his rookie year because he was a healthy inactive for many games. Getting injured later was just an excuse to the failed year. AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Sanu and Boyd didn't have those problems with Marvin Lewis while Ross clearly did.

Ross is now one of several Bengals players who are going to have to show up much improved for the new coaching staff. At least he'll get a chance.

[Jpoore]

(01-27-2019, 12:33 PM)BengalChris Wrote: When fans have to come up with lots of excuses for a player it is the player who is the problem. Ross couldn't get on the field in his rookie year because he was a healthy inactive for many games. Getting injured later was just an excuse to the failed year. AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Sanu and Boyd didn't have those problems with Marvin Lewis while Ross clearly did.

Ross is now one of several Bengals players who are going to have to show up much improved for the new coaching staff. At least he'll get a chance.

Bc he didn't know the playbook bc of the stupid quarter thing he started a couple months late and he's coming from the worst conference.

[McC]

(01-27-2019, 12:33 PM)BengalChris Wrote: When fans have to come up with lots of excuses for a player it is the player who is the problem. Ross couldn't get on the field in his rookie year because he was a healthy inactive for many games. Getting injured later was just an excuse to the failed year. AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Sanu and Boyd didn't have those problems with Marvin Lewis while Ross clearly did.

Ross is now one of several Bengals players who are going to have to show up much improved for the new coaching staff. At least he'll get a chance.

If ZT runs a Rams type system, it will be perfect for Ross.  Then we'll see what a horrible scheme we were running.  The entire offense will benefit from it.  And if we get our line fixed even somewhat, they will be dangerous.