Are We A Contender Now?!

[fredtoast]

(02-01-2019, 02:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, there was someone just like that available, Mike McCarthy.  I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that McCarthy has a better track record for success in the NFL than Marvin Lewis, and he had been available for a fair amount to time.  Evidently, the front office team made a conscious decision to move toward a younger, up and coming type of HC candidate for their selection.

And if had hired McCarthy then I would have understood people claiming we would definitely be better under him than Lewis.  There is plenty on McCarthy's resume to support that claim.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-01-2019, 02:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And if had hired McCarthy then I would have understood people claiming we would definitely be better under him than Lewis.  There is plenty on McCarthy's resume to support that claim.

McVay wasn't a HC in the NFL either before he got to the Rams and built what he did WITH Taylor's help.

McVay just raves about Taylor as well.

That is the thing, we don't know what we can do now.

I honestly find this very exciting, maybe the most excited i have been as a Bengals fan.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-01-2019, 01:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Agreed.  That is why we all agreed Marvin had to go.

My point is that mediocre is not the bottom level, so there is no guarantee that we are going to be better just because we got rid of Marvin.

If we had hired some NFL coach with a better track record than Marvin I would agree, but unfortunately no one like that was available.

No doubt. I'm with you on this Fred.

Taylor is a huge risk/ possible high reward guy. I suppose he could be great, but it's impossible to say. He had a middling offense at U of Cincy as OC. He also had a loaded roster with the Rams.

Is he a product of that? It would be impossible to say no...as atleast at some level he is.

People acted like Pollack would make the offensive line great, and we added Cordy Glenn and Price and the results were still bad. Good coaching fixes some things, but you still need talent.

[McC]

(02-01-2019, 02:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Link to me saying I don't want Taylor to succeed or STFU.

Taylor has never been a head coach.  He has never even been hired as an NFL coordinator.  I am a huge Bengal homer so I hope he takes us to the Super Bowl, but there is nothing on his resume that guarantees he will be better than, or even as good as, Marvin.

I agree with everyone that we needed a new head coach.  But I also realize that Marvin Lewis was better than a lot of other NFL head coaches so there no automatic guarantee that we will be better under Taylor.

To me, actions speak louder than words.  You say you wanted him gone yet you spend all your time defending him and telling us all how Taylor has no chance.  Don't kid a kidder, dude.  You are a lot more transparent than you seem to think.

Zac Taylor is gonna reveal your boy for the inept boob he had become.  And it is gonna positively kill you.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-01-2019, 02:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Link to me saying I don't want Taylor to succeed or STFU.

Taylor has never been a head coach.  He has never even been hired as an NFL coordinator.  I am a huge Bengal homer so I hope he takes us to the Super Bowl, but there is nothing on his resume that guarantees he will be better than, or even as good as, Marvin.

I agree with everyone that we needed a new head coach.  But I also realize that Marvin Lewis was better than a lot of other NFL head coaches so there no automatic guarantee that we will be better under Taylor.

Fred there's no guarantee we'd be better if we hired Vince Lombardi ! That's the crack in your argument.

And I can assure you Marvin Lewis's record is not the benchmark for success you keep touting it as.

[THE PISTONS]

Everyone thinks they hired the best HC Candidate, but look at 2016:

The Philadelphia Eagles landed Pederson, 50, who led them to their first Super Bowl. But wait one second, Pederson was one of seven.

The other 6 hired that year have already been fired:
Miami got Adam Gase, Tampa Dirk Koetter, Cleveland Jackson, San Francisco Chip Kelly, NY Giants Ben McAdoo and Tennessee Mike Mularkey. All also from offensive backgrounds.

[XenoMorph]

(02-01-2019, 03:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Everyone thinks they hired the best HC Candidate, but look at 2016:

The Philadelphia Eagles landed Pederson, 50, who led them to their first Super Bowl. But wait one second, Pederson was one of seven.

The other 6 hired that year have already been fired:
Miami got Adam Gase, Tampa Dirk Koetter, Cleveland Jackson, San Francisco Chip Kelly, NY Giants Ben McAdoo and Tennessee Mike Mularkey. All also from offensive backgrounds.

Right...  Theres nothing wrong with being optimistic.   But being realistic is also a good thing.

There is no gaurentees the new Coach will be able to do better than the old.  But change is exciting in itself after 16 years.

Just cause we replaced marvin nothing says his replacement will do better.


Now something that will be different in their tenures seems to be how the FO is operating now.  that change in mentality might have been something marvin fought for, for years and we will never know.  it seemed to change a little last season.

Marvin was dealing with mikey most of his time here... Zac looks like he will be dealing with mostly Katie and the committee... 

And if that's the case we will never have a true apples to apples comparison.

[McC]

(02-01-2019, 03:23 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Right...  Theres nothing wrong with being optimistic.   But being realistic is also a good thing.

There is no gaurentees the new Coach will be able to do better than the old.  But change is exciting in itself after 16 years.

Just cause we replaced marvin nothing says his replacement will do better.


Now something that will be different in their tenures seems to be how the FO is operating now.  that change in mentality might have been something marvin fought for, for years and we will never know.  it seemed to change a little last season.

Marvin was dealing with mikey most of his time here... Zac looks like he will be dealing with mostly Katie and the committee... 

And if that's the case we will never have a true apples to apples comparison.

Believe me, there are plenty enough people on this board who feel it is their job to not let anybody feel good about anything.  Nobody will let their optimism run too wild without the constant reminder-ers giving it their all to bring them back down.  

They call themselves The Realists and they mean business.  Post something optimistic and see how long it takes them to charge in and kill the buzz.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-01-2019, 03:45 PM)McC Wrote: Believe me, there are plenty enough people on this board who feel it is their job to not let anybody feel good about anything.  Nobody will let their optimism run too wild without the constant reminder-ers giving it their all to bring them back down.  

They call themselves The Realists and they mean business.  Post something optimistic and see how long it takes them to charge in and kill the buzz.

And it is way easier to do than have optimism after all these years of being a Bengals fan.

Atleast now us optimists have a reason cause new coaches are finally being brought in. But still, here come the Realists to tear us all down as you say. I am seeing something different going on and i am going to keep my eyes open to it and not focus on the past that was Marv anymore. Cannot wait to see these moves and if i don't like one i will say it but we all should be excited at this moment in time.

No reason not to, atleast for me.

The Realists can talk to themselves and bring themselves down. I'm all good.

[fredtoast]

(02-01-2019, 03:05 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Fred there's no guarantee we'd be better if we hired Vince Lombardi ! That's the crack in your argument.

Actually that is not a crack in my argument.  It actually supports my argument because the people I am disagreeing with are the ones who are saying "We will definitely be better now that we have gotten rid of Marvin.

(02-01-2019, 03:05 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And I can assure you Marvin Lewis's record is not the benchmark for success you keep touting it as.

And again people who can not assail the logic of what I actually say make stuff up and claim I said it.  All I said was that Marvin had a winning record.  Never said it was "the benchmark for success".

[Luvnit2]

(02-01-2019, 02:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Could be i guess. Weird, would like my team to succeed regardless of who the HC is...


Don't have the numbers but don't act like we even got close to splitting with the Steelers over the years under Marv Luvnit. The dude even grew up a Steelers fan for God sake. If you are fine with his record against the Steelers i guarantee you are alone on that one as far as us Bengal fans. Completely ridiculous to lose that often to your Division Rival.

The new guy gets a pass cause he is the new guy and if you just expect Taylor to come in here and make the Playoffs in year one i think that is a bit much. Shit, took Marv years to sniff the playoffs and he lost every frickin' time he got there.

ML took over a decade losing team. As far Steeler's record, please show where I said his record against them was acceptable. I said you spread fake news when you say we always lost to them, that was flat out lie.

I expect playoffs if the team stays healthy (health is only excuse I accept). I think that is more fair than the expectations many gave ML last year, the team was decimated with injury, but ML was supposed to overcome it.

[sandwedge]

(02-01-2019, 03:45 PM)McC Wrote: Believe me, there are plenty enough people on this board who feel it is their job to not let anybody feel good about anything.  Nobody will let their optimism run too wild without the constant reminder-ers giving it their all to bring them back down.  

They call themselves The Realists and they mean business.  Post something optimistic and see how long it takes them to charge in and kill the buzz.

I hope people have enough patience if the first couple of games don't go as we'd like. Or else they will be on here saying same 'o, same 'o.....

[XenoMorph]

(02-01-2019, 06:18 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I hope people have enough patience if the first couple of games don't go as we'd like. Or else they will be on here saying same 'o, same 'o.....

Lol I'm sure some will.... Some people live to say I told you so.

[Luvnit2]

(02-01-2019, 06:18 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I hope people have enough patience if the first couple of games don't go as we'd like. Or else they will be on here saying same 'o, same 'o.....

I have no seen anyone predict we will be worse or better. 

This to me is about expectations based on the facts to date of the current state of our roster with a new coaching staff come in.

I am a fan, I hope we go 16-0 and win it all. 

I have not seen anyone rooting against success???

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-01-2019, 06:18 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I hope people have enough patience if the first couple of games don't go as we'd like. Or else they will be on here saying same 'o, same 'o.....

It's funny if you ever go into the game day threads there's 59 minutes and 40 seconds left in the game and the first pass is incomplete. You'll get 10 knee jerk reactions, we suck, I'm out, Dalton is awful, it's funny.

I'm quite sure we lose the first game next season and they'll be two dozen guys on here saying see we still suck.

[McC]

(02-01-2019, 06:18 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I hope people have enough patience if the first couple of games don't go as we'd like. Or else they will be on here saying same 'o, same 'o.....

What if it starts out something like the Colts did this past year?  How bad would 1-5 make people lose their minds?

[SunsetBengal]

(02-01-2019, 08:29 PM)McC Wrote: What if it starts out something like the Colts did this past year?  How bad would 1-5 make people lose their minds?

Oddly enough, I could foresee just that sort of start.  We're going to have a brand new coaching staff, a LOT of new faces on the field, and a ton of getting used to the new and trying to get it right, before things start clicking.

I'm prepared for it, because it will lead to greater things later.  I just hope that everyone else is prepared to cope with a "building and growing" type of season.

[McC]

(02-01-2019, 08:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Oddly enough, I could foresee just that sort of start.  We're going to have a brand new coaching staff, a LOT of new faces on the field, and a ton of getting used to the new and trying to get it right, before things start clicking.

I'm prepared for it, because it will lead to greater things later.  I just hope that everyone else is prepared to cope with a "building and growing" type of season.

I would take that kind of start to the season if it led to what it did for the Colts.  I'd say most everybody would now consider the Colts a team on the rise.

[*jason*]

(02-01-2019, 08:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Oddly enough, I could foresee just that sort of start.  We're going to have a brand new coaching staff, a LOT of new faces on the field, and a ton of getting used to the new and trying to get it right, before things start clicking.

I'm prepared for it, because it will lead to greater things later.  I just hope that everyone else is prepared to cope with a "building and growing" type of season.

That's how 2003 started with Marvin Lewis. There's more talent on this team, but it's not outta the question. They kinda sputtered at the beginning of the 2011 season too before they got going.

[Essex Johnson]

(02-01-2019, 02:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: McVay wasn't a HC in the NFL either before he got to the Rams and built what he did WITH Taylor's help.

McVay just raves about Taylor as well.

That is the thing, we don't know what we can do now.

I honestly find this very exciting, maybe the most excited i have been as a Bengals fan.

 When we hired a young Marvin we probably had more enthusiasm than when we hired Taylor now I think it's because most of us don't think this team is badd we just needed a different direction when Marvin was hired most of a us saw the team as badd and Marvin put The Bengals back on the map