Murray update

[Okeana]

Bo Callahan

[McC]

(03-05-2019, 08:01 PM)Au165 Wrote: That report contradicts logic if you read it. Murray is lucky the Cardinals who met with him want to take him because he was so bad with his interviews people don’t want him. Apparently all his interviews weren’t that bad then were they?

As much as I have a clear dislike for him, you may have a blind spot about him.  Seems like the bad vibes about him just keep piling up.   And I really wouldn't go too all in on the Cardinals being the voice of reason and wisdom angle either.

Maybe he should have thrown and run and jumped. Might have distracted from what a tool he is.

[Au165]

(03-06-2019, 12:22 AM)McC Wrote: As much as I have a clear dislike for him, you may have a blind spot about him.  Seems like the bad vibes about him just keep piling up.   And I really wouldn't go too all in on the Cardinals being the voice of reason and wisdom angle either.

Maybe he should have thrown and run and jumped. Might have distracted from what a tool he is.

Soft spot for the potential #1 pick? Yea, because he is good lol. I’ve watched the tape he is accurate, plus arm strength, good eyes, moves well in the pocket. He is the only runner we have seen who can pass like he does and averaged 7 yards a carry in college, Jackson and Vick neither did that in college. The take that he was horrible on the board I 100% don't believe based on the way they adjusted and attacked Alabama in the second half, you don't do that if you can't read defenses and work progressions. He ran the same offense in college as Baker and that translated fine to the NFL.

As for his demeanor, people thought, and still think, Mayfield is a tool. I don’t care about if he is likable I want winners and he is a winner. Cam Newton was knocked for his interviews at the combine the year he came out, he still went #1 overall and has been fine. The “bombed” interviews report has been called an attempt to make him drop by some teams. We are in the season of deception.

His pro day is next week, he will run a 4.4 and all will be forgotten lol.

[McC]

(03-06-2019, 08:45 AM)Au165 Wrote: Soft spot for the potential #1 pick? Yea, because he is good lol. I’ve watched the tape he is accurate, plus arm strength, good eyes, moves well in the pocket. He is the only runner we have seen who can pass like he does and averaged 7 yards a carry in college, Jackson and Vick neither did that in college. The take that he was horrible on the board I 100% don't believe based on the way they adjusted and attacked Alabama in the second half, you don't do that if you can't read defenses and work progressions. He ran the same offense in college as Baker and that translated fine to the NFL.

As for his demeanor, people thought, and still think, Mayfield is a tool. I don’t care about if he is likable I want winners and he is a winner. Cam Newton was knocked for his interviews at the combine the year he came out, he still went #1 overall and has been fine. The “bombed” interviews report has been called an attempt to make him drop by some teams. We are in the season of deception.

His pro day is next week, he will run a 4.4 and all will be forgotten lol.

Riiiiiight.  Deception.  To what end?  If he's gonna be the first pick, what's the point?  His being an asshole is all just a mirage.  Whole lotta people in on the big lie.  If someone said this to you about another player, you'd laugh in their face.

I didn't say soft spot.  I said blind spot.  Big difference.  And thank you for reinforcing it.  

[Au165]

(03-06-2019, 09:58 AM)McC Wrote: Riiiiiight.  Deception.  To what end?  If he's gonna be the first pick, what's the point?  His being an asshole is all just a mirage.  Whole lotta people in on the big lie.  If someone said this to you about another player, you'd laugh in their face.

I didn't say soft spot.  I said blind spot.  Big difference.  And thank you for reinforcing it.  

...seriously? This is literally called he season of deception. If Arizona passes, let's say they can't move Rosen so they stay put, a team wanting him to fall needs him to pass a couple teams. What whole lotta people are you talking about? There has been one report by Casserly that he was "horrible" to start with. They say this stuff every year about players to make them fall or throw people off their interest. I have followed the draft in great depth for 10 years, this is nothing new.

Not sure how I re enforce it but your blind hatred of someone you have never met on such a personnel level is troubling. You should probably talk to someone about it. I'm telling you about the player, you are dead set on telling people about the "person" that you have never spoken to in your life. The tape says he is a great player, that's what I'll continue to push.

[McC]

(03-06-2019, 10:08 AM)Au165 Wrote: ...seriously? This is literally called he season of deception. If Arizona passes, let's say they can't move Rosen so they stay put, a team wanting him to fall needs him to pass a couple teams. What whole lotta people are you talking about? There has been one report by Casserly that he was "horrible" to start with. They say this stuff every year about players to make them fall or throw people off their interest. I have followed the draft in great depth for 10 years, this is nothing new.

Not sure how I re enforce it but your blind hatred of someone you have never met on such a personnel level is troubling. You should probably talk to someone about it. I'm telling you about the player, you are dead set on telling people about the "person" that you have never spoken to in your life. The tape says he is a great player, that's what I'll continue to push.

His personality is quickly becoming a hot topic, spoken about by people with zero stake in where he'll be drafted.  Is a warning not a warning?  Antonio Brown has all the talent in the world.  Is that the whole story?

I don't hate Murray.  I just see the signs that you refuse to see.  We'll just have to leave it at that.

[Goalpost]

I was kind of hoping he'd be at option at 11, but I doubt it now. If anything, he does push another good player down the board though. I think Haskins will get picked before us as well.

[PikesPeakUC]

(03-05-2019, 10:47 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Danny kannell came out with a similar report just now on when he interviewed him at the super bowl.

And this report says he aced the interviews and teams loved him. At this point it's all speculative and no one has any clue how he'll actually do until we play football. If anything, though, I'd sure like them to send Rosen his way. I think he got killed with no talent or O-Line around him.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/mike-jones/2019/03/01/kyler-murray-nfl-combine-2019-draft-height-weight/3034151002/

[Au165]

(03-06-2019, 11:31 AM)McC Wrote: His personality is quickly becoming a hot topic, spoken about by people with zero stake in where he'll be drafted.  Is a warning not a warning?  Antonio Brown has all the talent in the world.  Is that the whole story?

I don't hate Murray.  I just see the signs that you refuse to see.  We'll just have to leave it at that.

I don't know on February 1st your were mad he wouldn't just go #1 overall like Mayfield and play for a bad team, now you are mad he may go #1 overall. Reading your comments from the start of this thread kind of show you were keyed in on him as a "bad person" from the jump. 

I refuse to see signs because tape doesn't lie about him as a player. Again, I don't care if he is as a relateable guy or gives a good interview, if he isn't doing drugs or robbing people it doesn't matter. He was leader enough to lead OU back against Bama after a rough start. He was good enough at reading defenses to shred teams all year including working his progressions quickly and fluidly. If he checks out with his team mates then to me everything else is nothing because his coach endorses him. Cam Newton was blasted for being defensive, dismissive, and a total douche in his interviews...it hasn't hurt him in the NFL. 

[McC]

(03-06-2019, 12:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: I don't know on February 1st your were mad he wouldn't just go #1 overall like Mayfield and play for a bad team, now you are mad he may go #1 overall. Reading your comments from the start of this thread kind of show you were keyed in on him as a "bad person" from the jump. 

I refuse to see signs because tape doesn't lie about him as a player. Again, I don't care if he is as a relateable guy or gives a good interview, if he isn't doing drugs or robbing people it doesn't matter. He was leader enough to lead OU back against Bama after a rough start. He was good enough at reading defenses to shred teams all year including working his progressions quickly and fluidly. If he checks out with his team mates then to me everything else is nothing because his coach endorses him. Cam Newton was blasted for being defensive, dismissive, and a total douche in his interviews...it hasn't hurt him in the NFL. 

The tape doesn't lie about the player.  I never denied that.

Let's look at it this way.  You have a QB who is a dynamic runner.  You have a rookie HC in a place where the last HC got fired in one year.  You have a bad OLine and a bad defense.  You have one receiver worth a damn. 

There has to at least be a chance that their passing game will have bad days.  On those days, what are the chances that the rookie HC goes all Shanahan/Harbaugh and puts that dynamic running ability to work? 

It saved Shanahan's job but got RGIII shattered.  It saved Harbaugh's job, even though Jackson had to leave more than one game dinged up.  How much running can Murray get away with in the not Big 12 NFL, where defenses are gradually coming to terms with the college offenses?

I'm not saying Kingsbury will be making a RB out of his QB.  But it's pretty hard to deny how strong the temptation will be because there is precedent.  How much of that will he be able to stand up to?  

Is his HC up to the task of taking a horrible team and turning it around?  He couldn't do squat at TT.   And talk about lofty expectations. 

Mayfield had a team already pretty well assembled, with good receivers and backs and a very good OLine and a top notch GM in Dorsey.  Murray will not have that.  That's gonna be a lot to ask.  Gonna be a far cry from Oklahoma.  We will certainly see what he's made of, won't we?  If he goes to the Cardinals, it almost seems like the worst possible situation.

[Au165]

(03-06-2019, 12:48 PM)McC Wrote: The tape doesn't lie about the player.  I never denied that.

Let's look at it this way.  You have a QB who is a dynamic runner.  You have a rookie HC in a place where the last HC got fired in one year.  You have a bad OLine and a bad defense.  You have one receiver worth a damn. 

There has to at least be a chance that their passing game will have bad days.  On those days, what are the chances that the rookie HC goes all Shanahan/Harbaugh and puts that dynamic running ability to work? 

It saved Shanahan's job but got RGIII shattered.  It saved Harbaugh's job, even though Jackson had to leave more than one game dinged up.  How much running can Murray get away with in the not Big 12 NFL, where defenses are gradually coming to terms with the college offenses?

I'm not saying Kingsbury will be making a RB out of his QB.  But it's pretty hard to deny how strong the temptation will be because there is precedent.  How much of that will he be able to stand up to?  

Is his HC up to the task of taking a horrible team and turning it around?  He couldn't do squat at TT.   And talk about lofty expectations. 

Mayfield had a team already pretty well assembled, with good receivers and backs and a very good OLine and a top notch GM in Dorsey.  Murray will not have that.  That's gonna be a lot to ask.  Gonna be a far cry from Oklahoma.  We will certainly see what he's made of, won't we?  If he goes to the Cardinals, it almost seems like the worst possible situation.

All I can say is I guess we will see. This will be a fun thread to look back on in a year or two no matter what happens lol. At worst it'll result in Jpoore taking a draft season off from crazy predictions.

[McC]

(03-06-2019, 01:16 PM)Au165 Wrote: All I can say is I guess we will see. This will be a fun thread to look back on in a year or two no matter what happens lol. At worst it'll result in Jpoore taking a draft season off from crazy predictions.

On this we agree.   I would think for any Murray fan, AZ is the last place they'd want to see him go.  Talk about an uphill climb.

[Au165]

This is interesting considering who reported the interviews were a shit show. Casserly was GM in Washington years ago, but I sure bet there are people there who still talk to him. Not a stretch to think he was given some "bad" info from his old team. The season of misinformation, you won't know what is true or false until after the draft. I once heard Bruce Arians say the best smoke screen is to tell the truth because right now everyone else is lying.

Per sources, Jon Gruden is all over Kyler Murray. Redskins interested too. I guess those interviews weren't so bad. We know the Cardinals love him

— Clarence Hill Jr (@clarencehilljr) March 6, 2019

[McC]

(03-06-2019, 02:53 PM)Au165 Wrote: This is interesting considering who reported the interviews were a shit show. Casserly was GM in Washington years ago, but I sure bet there are people there who still talk to him. Not a stretch to think he was given some "bad" info from his old team. The season of misinformation, you won't know what is true or false until after the draft. I once heard Bruce Arians say the best smoke screen is to tell the truth because right now everyone else is lying.

Per sources, Jon Gruden is all over Kyler Murray. Redskins interested too. I guess those interviews weren't so bad. We know the Cardinals love him

— Clarence Hill Jr (@clarencehilljr) March 6, 2019

LOL.  That so sounds like something he would say.

[Au165]

(03-06-2019, 02:59 PM)McC Wrote: LOL.  That so sounds like something he would say.

I read an article that Darren Rovell wrote years back where he talked to GM's at the combine and one said, right now I can tell you anything and you don't know if it's a truth or lie. He goes on to say that he could tell him something right now that he wanted to be out there for the sake of making others think they will do something and Rovell would have no other option then to write it because it's newsworthy. That is kind of the whole crux of the next few months. A bunch of things are said some are lies some are truths and some are half truths intended on swaying other people's actions.

To follow up on this a bit, a couple years back the Dolphins drafted Charles Harris from Missouri. During this time people kept attaching Miami to him and they were panicking. In an attempt to throw people off they canceled their visit with him and told him nothing just cut him off. Harris tells the story and he thought he messed up but apparently they did it to make teams think they were out so no one jumped them to get him.

Stories like the one above happen every single year.

[McC]

(03-06-2019, 03:01 PM)Au165 Wrote: I read an article that Darren Rovell wrote years back where he talked to GM's at the combine and one said, right now I can tell you anything and you don't know if it's a truth or lie. He goes on to say that he could tell him something right now that he wanted to be out there for the sake of making others think they will do something and Rovell would have no other option then to write it because it's newsworthy. That is kind of the whole crux of the next few months. A bunch of things are said some are lies some are truths and some are half truths intended on swaying other people's actions.

To follow up on this a bit, a couple years back the Dolphins drafted Charles Harris from Missouri. During this time people kept attaching Miami to him and they were panicking. In an attempt to throw people off they canceled their visit with him and told him nothing just cut him off. Harris tells the story and he thought he messed up but apparently they did it to make teams think they were out so no one jumped them to get him.

Stories like the one above happen every single year.

To be fair, Gruden and/or Cardinal love might not exactly be a ringing endorsement.

[Au165]

(03-06-2019, 03:05 PM)McC Wrote: To be fair, Gruden and/or Cardinal love might not exactly be a ringing endorsement.

Jon Gruden lives for white board work and plays. If he can get Gruden to pass him on a white board I’ll back him. In terms of Gruden skill as a coach yea that’s up in the air but he is a savant in terms of play recollection and such.

[McC]

(03-06-2019, 03:08 PM)Au165 Wrote: Jon  Gruden lives for white board work and plays. If he can get Gruden to pass him on a white board I’ll back him. In terms of Gruden skill as a coach yea that’s up in the air but he is a savant in terms of play recollection and such.

Okay.  I'll give you that.  Gruden the GM is the stupid one.  Gruden the X's and  O's coach, smart guy.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-06-2019, 12:48 PM)McC Wrote: The tape doesn't lie about the player.  I never denied that.

Let's look at it this way.  You have a QB who is a dynamic runner.  You have a rookie HC in a place where the last HC got fired in one year.  You have a bad OLine and a bad defense.  You have one receiver worth a damn. 

There has to at least be a chance that their passing game will have bad days.  On those days, what are the chances that the rookie HC goes all Shanahan/Harbaugh and puts that dynamic running ability to work? 

It saved Shanahan's job but got RGIII shattered.  It saved Harbaugh's job, even though Jackson had to leave more than one game dinged up.  How much running can Murray get away with in the not Big 12 NFL, where defenses are gradually coming to terms with the college offenses?

I'm not saying Kingsbury will be making a RB out of his QB.  But it's pretty hard to deny how strong the temptation will be because there is precedent.  How much of that will he be able to stand up to?  

Is his HC up to the task of taking a horrible team and turning it around?  He couldn't do squat at TT.   And talk about lofty expectations. 

Mayfield had a team already pretty well assembled, with good receivers and backs and a very good OLine and a top notch GM in Dorsey.  Murray will not have that.  That's gonna be a lot to ask.  Gonna be a far cry from Oklahoma.  We will certainly see what he's made of, won't we?  If he goes to the Cardinals, it almost seems like the worst possible situation.

Umm, Mayfield didn't a "pretty well assembled" team, he had a team that only won one game in two seasons prior. What that team did was go out during FA just a couple months before drafting Mayfield and picked up some key guys to add. 
Tyrod Taylor as a stopgap starter
Jarvis Landry was a huge get
Carlos Hyde as the primary RB
Damarious Randall as a starting DB
TJ Carrie
Chris Hubbard

They also had a really good draft with a lot of early-round picks, and they hit on most of them.

The point I'm trying to make is that you're basing the Cardinals on what they are before FA and the draft happen, which you could easily say the Browns were in an even worse position at this point last year.

[BengalChris]

We aren't drafting this guy so not sure why we even have a thread on him. Even if available at 11 he won't be our pick.

Haskins will have a better and longer pro career.