Will Tobin and Taylor be able to be on the same page with roster?

[McC]

(02-20-2019, 11:14 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: With this organization that doesn't give me a fuzzy feeling.  A young inexperienced coach will take any opportunity to get the head gig.  Hope the Bengals didn't smell this blood and figure they'll have a new lap dog.

Why do I think this is the case....

Who knows?  All kindsa people think all kindsa goofy things.

[grampahol]

It's tough to proclaim he'll be able to attract FA's since apparently free agency is heading the way of the dinosaurs or at least in MLB. Suffice it to say that both leagues tend to copy each other when it comes to how they spend money or not. My gut instinct is to think big money free agency is on it's way out since teams and leagues now often use algorithms to determine player's value and longevity .. Someone along the way found out that all those stats that have been compiled over the years are far more valuable than anyone thought and there will be a lot less signings because of gut feelings and a lot more of relying on the stats that have been compiled over many years and many games. 
I have to believe the days of over paying players based on their last season is coming to a close. How this plays out in Cincinnati is anyone's guess, but I suspect they're not going to rely on gut instincts much anymore. 

[BFritz21]

(02-17-2019, 03:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The draft - Really don't see it changing much as we haven't added more scouts. I'm sure Taylor will lobby for people. They'll get some. Some will be picked by other people. Much like Marvin didn't want Ross.

The scouts now really won't matter because everyone knows about the big name college players and they're well-evaluated and all over TV and on websites.  Where teams win the draft is in the mid-to-late rounds where you find sleepers and small school guys, which is what Mike Brown didn't/doesn't understand.

I will say that it is easier to find sleepers and late round players now with the internet and all the scouting sites, but do we even have enough people to be looking at that and scouting the few pro days we can and making college visits?

On the topic, I think they'll be on the same page because I think that Mike Brown is going to tell Tobin that "this is Taylor's team, so give him what he wants."

Also, without a DC at the moment, it's going to be hard for Taylor and Tobin to even know what kind of defenders that they'll need.

[grampahol]

(02-20-2019, 05:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The scouts now really won't matter because everyone knows about the big name college players and they're well-evaluated and all over TV and on websites.  Where teams win the draft is in the mid-to-late rounds where you find sleepers and small school guys, which is what Mike Brown didn't/doesn't understand.

I will say that it is easier to find sleepers and late round players now with the internet and all the scouting sites, but do we even have enough people to be looking at that and scouting the few pro days we can and making college visits?

On the topic, I think they'll be on the same page because I think that Mike Brown is going to tell Tobin that "this is Taylor's team, so give him what he wants."

Also, without a DC at the moment, it's going to be hard for Taylor and Tobin to even know what kind of defenders that they'll need.

You may be on to something. The internet allows most fans to evaluate many more players than back in the old days when we just didn't really have access to the likes of players like Kenny Anderson and others. Did anyone even know of Augustana College before Kenny? It ain't rocket science and I'm not particularly sold on the notion that a team MUST have a huge scouting staff to find good players outside of the big conferences.. Now it's a matter of a few clicks with a mouse to find players from small schools much less the schools themselves.. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-20-2019, 05:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The scouts now really won't matter because everyone knows about the big name college players and they're well-evaluated and all over TV and on websites.  Where teams win the draft is in the mid-to-late rounds where you find sleepers and small school guys, which is what Mike Brown didn't/doesn't understand.

I will say that it is easier to find sleepers and late round players now with the internet and all the scouting sites, but do we even have enough people to be looking at that and scouting the few pro days we can and making college visits?

On the topic, I think they'll be on the same page because I think that Mike Brown is going to tell Tobin that "this is Taylor's team, so give him what he wants."

Also, without a DC at the moment, it's going to be hard for Taylor and Tobin to even know what kind of defenders that they'll need.

Yes technology has changed things, this is an old argument Pistons keeps using.

What he is saying about not having enough scouts was true in the past when you didn't have all this access, nowadays it is different with all the film nearly anyone can access. Don't have to be at games or even at the Combine except for the interviewing process.

One can argue that now it is much easier to scout players.

BTW Brad, Lou Anarumo is our new DC if you didn't know it yet and i like the guy.

Will be better than Austin that is for sure.

(02-21-2019, 08:36 AM)grampahol Wrote: You may be on to something. The internet allows most fans to evaluate many more players than back in the old days when we just didn't really have access to the likes of players like Kenny Anderson and others. Did anyone even know of Augustana College before Kenny? It ain't rocket science and I'm not particularly sold on the notion that a team MUST have a huge scouting staff to find good players outside of the big conferences.. Now it's a matter of a few clicks with a mouse to find players from small schools much less the schools themselves.. 

He is on to something. The film is everywhere on these players and not hard to find.

I don't think scouting is our problem, coaching has been the problem. Need to coach these players up once you get them.

So happy we finally moved on from the problem, hope Zac and company can coach up our players better than Marv and co did.

[BFritz21]

(02-24-2019, 06:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes technology has changed things, this is an old argument Pistons keeps using.

What he is saying about not having enough scouts was true in the past when you didn't have all this access, nowadays it is different with all the film nearly anyone can access. Don't have to be at games or even at the Combine except for the interviewing process.

One can argue that now it is much easier to scout players.

BTW Brad, Lou Anarumo is our new DC if you didn't know it yet and i like the guy.

Will be better than Austin that is for sure.

It is much easier to find sleepers and evaluate players, like I keep saying, but you also still even need quality scouts to know what they're looking for online and to have the time and football knowledge to properly evaluate the prospects.

I do still think that it's important, once we find the mid-to-late round guys/sleepers, to go to pro days, do interviews, and just get details about the player as a person and properly evaluate because the films can only show so much.  It also helps to get an in-person interview in just so you can make sure they have their heads on right and everything else.

Anarumo was picked a day or so after I posted that, but I agree that I'm liking the pick because it's Austin's pick even if it wasn't his top pick because he was near the top.  I also like that he was a defensive backs coach since it's a passing league now, and also being a former quarterback and receiver(?) coach helps because he knows what the progressions are and things that go on in a quarterback's mind.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-24-2019, 06:54 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It is much easier to find sleepers and evaluate players, like I keep saying, but you also still even need quality scouts to know what they're looking for online and to have the time and football knowledge to properly evaluate the prospects.

I do still think that it's important, once we find the mid-to-late round guys/sleepers, to go to pro days, do interviews, and just get details about the player as a person and properly evaluate because the films can only show so much.  It also helps to get an in-person interview in just so you can make sure they have their heads on right and everything else.

Anarumo was picked a day or so after I posted that, but I agree that I'm liking the pick because it's Austin's pick even if it wasn't his top pick because he was near the top.  I also like that he was a defensive backs coach since it's a passing league now, and also being a former quarterback and receiver(?) coach helps because he knows what the progressions are and things that go on in a quarterback's mind.

Of course having quality scouts is very important i just disagree with the notion that we need tons of scouts. Belichick even says you can have too many minds in the room. The interviewing process is very important and you don't want too many scouts in the guys face either.

Yes, all i wanted was for Taylor to pick his own guys he is comfortable with and he can communicate well with. This is exactly what he is doing. I am really interested in seeing who the LB coach and the DL coach will be. Need these guys in the room like right now so they can get on the same page with Zac.

[BFritz21]

(02-24-2019, 07:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Of course having quality scouts is very important i just disagree with the notion that we need tons of scouts. Belichick even says you can have too many minds in the room. The interviewing process is very important and you don't want too many scouts in the guys face either.

Yes, all i wanted was for Taylor to pick his own guys he is comfortable with and he can communicate well with. This is exactly what he is doing. I am really interested in seeing who the LB coach and the DL coach will be. Need these guys in the room like right now so they can get on the same page with Zac.

I agree that we don't need many anymore but the problem is that we need scouts that know what they're looking for and that Mike Brown will listen to.

I think that Taylor will know what to look for better than Marvin did (and know how to tell any scouts was to look for better) and will be able to better evaluate the players (even if it's just off information online and online film).

As much as I loved (and defended Marvin), he didn't really have too much football knowledge (besides defense) or vision of how to build a team and utilize talent, so I'm hoping that these coaches can hit home runs in the draft and free agency (or even just do average) and then we can have a winning team because we do have talent, but we need direction

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-24-2019, 07:30 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree that we don't need many anymore but the problem is that we need scouts that know what they're looking for and that Mike Brown will listen to.

I think that Taylor will know what to look for better than Marvin did (and know how to tell any scouts was to look for better) and will be able to better evaluate the players (even if it's just off information online and online film).

As much as I loved (and defended Marvin), he didn't really have too much football knowledge (besides defense) or vision of how to build a team and utilize talent, so I'm hoping that these coaches can hit home runs in the draft and free agency (or even just do average) and then we can have a winning team because we do have talent, but we need direction

I think the direction is nowhere but up from everything i hear from Taylor.

Dude is very refreshing to listen to, did you listen to his interview with Florio?

Just neat to have an offensive mind at HC, i did here him say he will have a say on Defense which gave me pause but i guess Lou is more than fine with it as he is here now. I just see a HC with a very open mind which Marv never seemed to be. He had his plan and never knew how to adjust from it. This and as you said he was a Defensive mind and he stuck his nose in the Offense which was in my opinion one of his biggest flaws.

He ought to have known what his strengths were and should of let the OC's do their job for good or bad. Ride it.

[BFritz21]

(02-24-2019, 07:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think the direction is nowhere but up from everything i hear from Taylor.

Dude is very refreshing to listen to, did you listen to his interview with Florio?

Just neat to have an offensive mind at HC, i did here him say he will have a say on Defense which gave me pause but i guess Lou is more than fine with it as he is here now. I just see a HC with a very open mind which Marv never seemed to be. He had his plan and never knew how to adjust from it. This and as you said he was a Defensive mind and he stuck his nose in the Offense which was in my opinion one of his biggest flaws.

He ought to have known what his strengths were and should of let the OC's do their job for good or bad. Ride it.

Just did.  It was refreshing to hear about his confidence in the staff that he was able to put together.  He kept mentioning how thorough they were in finding the right people to bring in to coach with him.

I love his mentioning that he'll be involved in the defense because I think it will keep the defensive players feeling like he's their coach and also I like how it will allow him to game plan and manage the games.

Wow.  You can tell he just believes in the team and believes in the coaches that he brought in.

Sounds like he has faith in the players, also, especially Andy.  

He made it sound like he'll have control to draft and bring in whoever he wants and sounds like he's excited and already has plans for what he wants to get done.

At the end, him mentioning that he's going to change the culture here is exactly what we all wanted to hear!

Sounds ambitious and excited!  We need to hit the draft and a decent free agency, but I'm excited for Taylor!  It will be so nice to use our talent and move on from the lame duck in Marvin!

[impactplaya]

maybe Taylor will come in and put on the big erase board
NOBODYS JOB IS SECURE!
what i hated. with Marvin was no one player really feared losing his job or role no matter how,many assignment errors
you made on the field

[*Synric*]

Guess this is as good place as any for this...

Duke Tobin and Zac Taylor will be at the combine podium Wednesday 10am and 10:30am respectively.

[BFritz21]

(02-25-2019, 12:47 PM)impactplaya Wrote: maybe Taylor will come in and put on the big erase board
NOBODYS JOB IS SECURE!
what i hated. with Marvin was no one player really feared losing his job or role no matter how,many assignment errors
you made on the field

Exactly.  

Just look at when John Thornton had to go to Marvin and tell him to start Sims (I think it was Sims) over him because he was better but Marvin's loyalty had him starting John.

Just another example of Marvin's failure to evolve and adapt to the changing game.

[impactplaya]

I hope guys like Cody Core and Hardy Nickerson
have money saved up.
2 of Marvins pets have no reason being on this roster next year.

[Flirtdoc]

Duke Tobin has gotten so far because of his last name. This guy is not as good as people think. The elder Tobin is actually a good talent evaluator.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-25-2019, 01:30 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Just did.  It was refreshing to hear about his confidence in the staff that he was able to put together.  He kept mentioning how thorough they were in finding the right people to bring in to coach with him.

I love his mentioning that he'll be involved in the defense because I think it will keep the defensive players feeling like he's their coach and also I like how it will allow him to game plan and manage the games.

Wow.  You can tell he just believes in the team and believes in the coaches that he brought in.

Sounds like he has faith in the players, also, especially Andy.  

He made it sound like he'll have control to draft and bring in whoever he wants and sounds like he's excited and already has plans for what he wants to get done.

At the end, him mentioning that he's going to change the culture here is exactly what we all wanted to hear!

Sounds ambitious and excited!  We need to hit the draft and a decent free agency, but I'm excited for Taylor!  It will be so nice to use our talent and move on from the lame duck in Marvin!

Yes, that was a cool interview from our new HC. I know i have been saying that we need to give this guy some time but i cannot help but be excited for THIS year the way this guy talks. I truly believe that coaching has been our biggest reason why we don't win once we get into the Playoffs and Marv just was never the type to get the players and fans hyped up. Completely different mind set with Zac Taylor.

Loving this stuff. I bet if we get into the Playoffs next year we will break that shitty streak with this guy.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-25-2019, 05:01 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Exactly.  

Just look at when John Thornton had to go to Marvin and tell him to start Sims (I think it was Sims) over him because he was better but Marvin's loyalty had him starting John.

Just another example of Marvin's failure to evolve and adapt to the changing game.

No doubt, things will be different now. It was like self destructive sub concious sabotage with Marv...

[BFritz21]

(02-28-2019, 01:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, that was a cool interview from our new HC. I know i have been saying that we need to give this guy some time but i cannot help but be excited for THIS year the way this guy talks. I truly believe that coaching has been our biggest reason why we don't win once we get into the Playoffs and Marv just was never the type to get the players and fans hyped up. Completely different mind set with Zac Taylor.

Loving this stuff. I bet if we get into the Playoffs next year we will break that shitty streak with this guy.

I agree and, normally, I'd be in the same boat of "give him a year or two to get his coaching style in place," but we have a bunch of quality vets and guys that are ready to win, but just need leadership!

Taylor's energy is exactly what this team needs!

(02-28-2019, 01:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No doubt, things will be different now. It was like self destructive sub concious sabotage with Marv...

Exactly.  He tries too hard and kept getting in his own way.

He tried to get the players to buy into certain things instead of playing to their strengths.  

Don't get me wrong because I'm not saying let the players control things, but you can't fit a square peg into a round hole, which is what Marvin tried to do, and it's a damn shame because he wasted A LOT of talent.