Bobby Hart Re-Signed

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-12-2019, 10:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You don't have any idea what those coaches saw when they critically analyzed the game tapes.

I’m guessing the same tape we saw. Doesn’t take a genius to see if Hart gets bulldozed back to the quarterback for a sack it’s probably a bad play. This happened a lot

[RunKijanaRun]

(03-12-2019, 11:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I never said that I was "cool" with Bobby Hart being signed, only that I can rationalize why the organization chose to re-sign him.  To be honest, I wanted much better, but I really wouldn't have wanted to see the Bengals pay 2.5X what they did, for only marginally better results.  I want to see a couple of Tackles drafted, one of them to be a top prospect.

What has me riled, is all of these "fans" that seem to be pissed off, or ready to jump off of a ledge, simply because the Bengals didn't throw stupid money at average players, simply because they weren't on last year's team.  The Tackles and LBs signed in the last two days received money well above their merit.  Sure, I would like to have seen a couple of those guys on the Bengals roster, but not at those costs.

I think what's confusing you is that when all the good players appear to be "overpaid," you've missed the fact that the market has changed. 

We were all accustomed to buying a cold cut combo from Subway for 2.99 in 1994. Now they cost 6 bucks. 

[Hoofhearted]

(03-12-2019, 11:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I never said that I was "cool" with Bobby Hart being signed, only that I can rationalize why the organization chose to re-sign him.  To be honest, I wanted much better, but I really wouldn't have wanted to see the Bengals pay 2.5X what they did, for only marginally better results.  I want to see a couple of Tackles drafted, one of them to be a top prospect.

What has me riled, is all of these "fans" that seem to be pissed off, or ready to jump off of a ledge, simply because the Bengals didn't throw stupid money at average players, simply because they weren't on last year's team.  The Tackles and LBs signed in the last two days received money well above their merit.  Sure, I would like to have seen a couple of those guys on the Bengals roster, but not at those costs.

Because it reeks of business as usual. What did Hart do to deserve such a massive pay raise? They signed him to a one year, basically one million dollar deal with incentives last year. They threw stupid money at him with the hope he gets better not based off production. We've said the same thing about throwing stupid money at Big Whit and I wonder if they regret that at all? I don't get why people are not allowed to be upset by this team sticking with the same exact o-line (as of now) and REWARDING his bad play with a massive pay raise. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-12-2019, 11:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Andy is not losing a seconds sleep over this signing. 

He realizes 27 QBs last year were sacked more than him last year, he realizes he has never been injured in his 8 year career from getting sacked, and he realizes he has professional folks making these personnel decisions. 

Feel for Andy all you want; but he's not feeling for himself. 

He didn't play all of the games either.  (plus, last year's injury was due to poor line play)

Seriously, I see the Hart signing as insurance, but if watching Margus Hunt sling him around like a rag doll and pummel Andy doesn't concern you in the slightest, I'm not sure what games you were watching.  Hart was a weak link in a shitty line, no question.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-12-2019, 11:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I never said that I was "cool" with Bobby Hart being signed, only that I can rationalize why the organization chose to re-sign him.  To be honest, I wanted much better, but I really wouldn't have wanted to see the Bengals pay 2.5X what they did, for only marginally better results.  I want to see a couple of Tackles drafted, one of them to be a top prospect.

What has me riled, is all of these "fans" that seem to be pissed off, or ready to jump off of a ledge, simply because the Bengals didn't throw stupid money at average players, simply because they weren't on last year's team.  The Tackles and LBs signed in the last two days received money well above their merit.  Sure, I would like to have seen a couple of those guys on the Bengals roster, but not at those costs.

Word.  Brown and Taylor got PAID.....way too much.  Mosley was a blockbuster, but at least he is a good player, and not average like the two tackles I mentioned.  I'd still like to see another backer added....o line FA was slim pickings this season.  Are there any good guards out there?  I'd be up for that too.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-13-2019, 08:52 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I think what's confusing you is that when all the good players appear to be "overpaid," you've missed the fact that the market has changed. 

We were all accustomed to buying a cold cut combo from Subway for 2.99 in 1994. Now they cost 6 bucks. 

I have a fair understanding of supply and demand.  There's a serious shortage of quality OL available.  If you go to Sportrac, and look at the complete list of who's signed, and who remains unsigned, the remaining unsigned OL looks like a Who's Who list of former 1st round picks that have devolved all the way to being roster hanger-ons.

With this shortage of available players that can do the job, not even excel at the job, just simply hold their own, it creates a serious inflation on the price of the available talent.

A few of us have been discussing for years, how the College game just isn't producing enough NFL quality OL to go around.  I haven't taken the time to do the analysis, but I'm willing to bet that if you look at the success rate of OL drafted in the 1st two rounds over the past 10 drafts, you'll notice a stark difference from the 10 pervious drafts.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-13-2019, 12:17 AM)mikey6866 Wrote: Lol.  Are they watching some other magical tape that nobody else can see?  You dont have to be a mastermind to see that bobby hart sucked last year.  It was glaring how bad the right side of the oline was.  I would have been fine signing him in a week for about 2 mil a year but paying a guy 7 mil a year ensures he will start and that sucks because we already know the oline is set up for failure.  Everybody was hoping to see the line get fixed and we kept all the same scrubs...they arent magically going to turn into pro bowlers.  If im mixon or green im dying to get the hell outta here at this point.

Except we now know that's not what he's making, unless he hits some escalators.  If he hits those, that means he played well, if not, we can cut bait for little dead money.  It's an insurance policy folks.....no need to spread misinformation because we don't like the way he played.  Notice I said we, because I wasn't happy with the way he played either.  However, would you rather them sign Hart as insurance, or Ogbuehi or Fisher?  We only had one T under contract.  We are going to get other tackles, whether it's FA, or via the draft.  We have to, we only have 2 now.  

I was pissed off initially too, but you gotta step back and look at the broader picture.....

[SunsetBengal]

(03-13-2019, 09:21 AM)Wyche Wrote: Word.  Brown and Taylor got PAID.....way too much.  Mosley was a blockbuster, but at least he is a good player, and not average like the two tackles I mentioned.  I'd still like to see another backer added....o line FA was slim pickings this season.  Are there any good guards out there?  I'd be up for that too.

I took a look at the Sportrac complete list of free agents, just this morning.  It's slim pickin's right now.  If I had to gamble with house money on any of the available Guards out there, I'd go with DJ Fluker.  As least he's making a name for himself as a dominating run blocker, after busting as a Tackle.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-13-2019, 09:24 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I have a fair understanding of supply and demand.  There's a serious shortage of quality OL available.  If you go to Sportrac, and look at the complete list of who's signed, and who remains unsigned, the remaining unsigned OL looks like a Who's Who list of former 1st round picks that have devolved all the way to being roster hanger-ons.

With this shortage of available players that can do the job, not even excel at the job, just simply hold their own, it creates a serious inflation on the price of the available talent.

A few of us have been discussing for years, how the College game just isn't producing enough NFL quality OL to go around.  I haven't taken the time to do the analysis, but I'm willing to bet that if you look at the success rate of OL drafted in the 1st two rounds over the past 10 drafts, you'll notice a stark difference from the 10 pervious drafts.  

This has become a HUGE problem.  I'm wondering what it's going to take to fix this?  I've also mentioned about how edge rushers have become bigger, faster, stronger as well.  There are guys all over the league that have abilities similar to LT.  Guys like LT used to be outliers, not the norm.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-13-2019, 09:27 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I took a look at the Sportrac complete list of free agents, just this morning.  It's slim pickin's right now.  If I had to gamble with house money on any of the available Guards out there, I'd go with DJ Fluker.  As least he's making a name for himself as a dominating run blocker, after busting as a Tackle.

Yeah....like I noted earlier in this thread, it was a bad year to need so many players on the oline, and the Ced/Fish busts are still haunting us.

I'd like to see them kick the tires on a guy like Fluker, for sure.

[masonbengals fan]

I can see bringing him back as we have nobody else at the moment. But 3 years at 7 per is just awful.

[Benton]

(03-13-2019, 09:26 AM)Wyche Wrote: Except we now know that's not what he's making, unless he hits some escalators.  If he hits those, that means he played well, if not, we can cut bait for little dead money.  It's an insurance policy folks.....no need to spread misinformation because we don't like the way he played.  Notice I said we, because I wasn't happy with the way he played either.  However, would you rather them sign Hart as insurance, or Ogbuehi or Fisher?  We only had one T under contract.  We are going to get other tackles, whether it's FA, or via the draft.  We have to, we only have 2 now.  

I was pissed off initially too, but you gotta step back and look at the broader picture.....

Yeah that's where I'm at. At first I was like "wtf!?" But we can cut him after the first season or two and it's not a huge hit. Basically, we'd only have seriously overpaid for one season 

And if the staff thinks he can step up, I'll give them a year or two. Whoever we we're signing as head coach, I said I'd give a year or two.

[RunKijanaRun]

(03-13-2019, 09:27 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I took a look at the Sportrac complete list of free agents, just this morning.  It's slim pickin's right now.  If I had to gamble with house money on any of the available Guards out there, I'd go with DJ Fluker.  As least he's making a name for himself as a dominating run blocker, after busting as a Tackle.

Fluker would be a perfect acquisition for this team, which is precisely why it stands no chance of happening. They already passed on him once. 

[mallorian69]

(03-13-2019, 09:26 AM)Wyche Wrote: Except we now know that's not what he's making, unless he hits some escalators.  If he hits those, that means he played well, if not, we can cut bait for little dead money.  It's an insurance policy folks.....no need to spread misinformation because we don't like the way he played.  Notice I said we, because I wasn't happy with the way he played either.  However, would you rather them sign Hart as insurance, or Ogbuehi or Fisher?  We only had one T under contract.  We are going to get other tackles, whether it's FA, or via the draft.  We have to, we only have 2 now.  

I was pissed off initially too, but you gotta step back and look at the broader picture.....

You realize that just because he hits his bonuses doesn't mean he played well. Without knowing what triggers the escalators we cant say for sure. For all we know the bonuses could just be for showing up. Attend all OTA's here's 250k. Still on the roster at the start of camp here's another 250k. Make the 53 and have 500k. 

It is much harder to put performance based incentives in an olineman's contract than say a RB. Unless they put in something like no penalties or give up 0 sacks I'm willing to bet he will hit most, if not all of his escalators as they are most likely just roster bonuses and we know he's not getting cut this year.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-13-2019, 10:48 AM)mallorian69 Wrote: You realize that just because he hits his bonuses doesn't mean he played well. Without knowing what triggers the escalators we cant say for sure. For all we know the bonuses could just be for showing up. Attend all OTA's here's 250k. Still on the roster at the start of camp here's another 250k. Make the 53 and have 500k. 

It is much harder to put performance based incentives in an olineman's contract than say a RB. Unless they put in something like no penalties or give up 0 sacks I'm willing to bet he will hit most, if not all of his escalators as they are most likely just roster bonuses and we know he's not getting cut this year.

Most likely. As you said roster bonuses and snaps played bonuses.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-13-2019, 10:48 AM)mallorian69 Wrote: You realize that just because he hits his bonuses doesn't mean he played well. Without knowing what triggers the escalators we cant say for sure. For all we know the bonuses could just be for showing up. Attend all OTA's here's 250k. Still on the roster at the start of camp here's another 250k. Make the 53 and have 500k. 

It is much harder to put performance based incentives in an olineman's contract than say a RB. Unless they put in something like no penalties or give up 0 sacks I'm willing to bet he will hit most, if not all of his escalators as they are most likely just roster bonuses and we know he's not getting cut this year.

You may be right.....or it may have some performance escalators that he may have a hard time hitting.  Like making the Pro Bowl....LOL!....or improving sacks/pressures/penalties numbers....etc.

No, he won't be cut this year, we're paper thin at tackle.  Like I noted earlier, the Ced/Fisher picks have put us in this unenviable position.  I don't think this necessarily makes him the starter, depending on how the draft goes.  He may even get kicked over to G.

[kevin]

(03-11-2019, 04:57 PM)TSwigZ Wrote: Per Adam Schefter

3 years 21 fffing million bucks

I don't know what he is getting paid, or what others in NFL at his position get paid.  His down side is he moves before the ball is snapped way too much. New coaches need to get on him about that.   His upside is he is about the same age as players in the Draft.  He is young considering his NFL experience. I think this is what the Bengals see in him, that he is young and can be Coached Up.   I'm not saying it's a great signing, but it's not the end of life as we know it either. Considering he has played for Giants and Bengals, he is still very young and maybe they put his Giants and Bengals experience over somebody the same age coming out of college.

[sandwedge]

(03-13-2019, 09:24 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I have a fair understanding of supply and demand.  There's a serious shortage of quality OL available.  If you go to Sportrac, and look at the complete list of who's signed, and who remains unsigned, the remaining unsigned OL looks like a Who's Who list of former 1st round picks that have devolved all the way to being roster hanger-ons.

With this shortage of available players that can do the job, not even excel at the job, just simply hold their own, it creates a serious inflation on the price of the available talent.

A few of us have been discussing for years, how the College game just isn't producing enough NFL quality OL to go around.  I haven't taken the time to do the analysis, but I'm willing to bet that if you look at the success rate of OL drafted in the 1st two rounds over the past 10 drafts, you'll notice a stark difference from the 10 pervious drafts.  

I don't see the OL situation getting better either. Btw, I agree with everything you have said in this thread.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-13-2019, 11:05 AM)Wyche Wrote: You may be right.....or it may have some performance escalators that he may have a hard time hitting.  Like making the Pro Bowl....LOL!....or improving sacks/pressures/penalties numbers....etc.

No, he won't be cut this year, we're paper thin at tackle.  Like I noted earlier, the Ced/Fisher picks have put us in this unenviable position.  I don't think this necessarily makes him the starter, depending on how the draft goes.  He may even get kicked over to G.

The contract looks like he'll be starting this year, but could be backup next year and the year after.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-13-2019, 11:34 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The contract looks like he'll be starting this year, but could be backup next year and the year after.

I'd say it hinges on how the draft goes, and if we draft a T that comes in and beats him out.