Can We Win With Our Small Scouting Department?

[McC]

(03-06-2019, 02:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: While I think they are overrated, I'd probably take their roster over ours.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if that ownership finds a way to mess things up. And maybe that's bringing in this troubled RB that they just signed. Maybe that will mess up their chemistry.

As far as Hunt goes, I think you'll see a guy absolutely toeing the line.  When your good thing gets taken away, and you have a chance to get it back, that can be a mighty big wake up call.  Yes, it is possible he goes the Odell, Slim, Josh Gordon route but I don't think he will.

Not sure how happy bringing in Hunt will make Nick Chubb, but I'd imagine the rest of the team will be fine with it.

[McC]

(03-06-2019, 02:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: While I think they are overrated, I'd probably take their roster over ours.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if that ownership finds a way to mess things up. And maybe that's bringing in this troubled RB that they just signed. Maybe that will mess up their chemistry.

And you're absolutely right.  Their owner is a mighty big X factor cuz he can't help butting in.  He's stayed out for a while now, which has to mean the itch is getting stronger by the day. 

We'll see what happens in the draft, cuz it's well known that's when he most likes to stuck his big dumb head in.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-06-2019, 02:33 PM)McC Wrote: As far as Hunt goes, I think you'll see a guy absolutely toeing the line.  When your good thing gets taken away, and you have a chance to get it back, that can be a mighty big wake up call.  Yes, it is possible he goes the Odell, Slim, Josh Gordon route but I don't think he will.

Not sure how happy bringing in Hunt will make Nick Chubb, but I'd imagine the rest of the team will be fine with it.

That's the thing. Maybe 1 bad apple doesn't cause an issue. But at a certain point it can destroy chemistry.

Even when we had good rosters here, we had issues with players like that and it ultimately undermines a coach over time. Unless, you have a strong organization like the Patriots. But, even they take calculated risks and the troubled guys they bring in seem to stay for 1-2 years then leave.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-06-2019, 02:36 PM)McC Wrote: And you're absolutely right.  Their owner is a mighty big X factor cuz he can't help butting in.  He's stayed out for a while now, which has to mean the itch is getting stronger by the day. 

We'll see what happens in the draft, cuz it's well known that's when he most likes to stuck his big dumb head in.

Organizational culture starts at the top. It's hard to shed that loser culture.

It can be done, but it's hard.

They're basically running a college offense too. You'd have to think teams will adjust and stop that.

[McC]

(03-06-2019, 02:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Organizational culture starts at the top. It's hard to shed that loser culture.

It can be done, but it's hard.

They're basically running a college offense too. You'd have to think teams will adjust and stop that.

Defenses always catch up.  Then elements of "the latest thing" get inserted and kept around.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-06-2019, 02:30 PM)McC Wrote: I'm not disagreeing with any of what you said.  I'm just saying that, take '15, for instance, with better luck(Dalton not breaking his thumb) and better coaching(more focus and discipline at the end of a game that should have been won), we might have made a pretty good playoff run.

Our lack of post season success is multi-factored, with the number of scouts or FO people being just two of the factors.   It can be done the small operation way, but it would require the decision makers to be better at making decisions.  The margin of error is smaller if the operation is smaller.

There really is only one common denominator of the various methods of winning a title and that is brilliance at the top.

I feel like that year. I feel like Palmer hurting his knee derailed us. We should have won in 15...except for the lack of discipline as we both know. I really think that was the time to get rid of Jones and maybe Burfict to send a message. Or if not them, then Marvin. But, no brought all 3 back.

But in the grand scheme of things, we have a roster good enough to compete what...2-3 seasons out of 27? I'm not talking about making the playoffs...I'm talking about a roster good enough to make an AFC Championship game.

Some 23-24 teams have been to Super Bowls since we last won a playoff game.

[THE PISTONS]

You can support a team and feel that the scouting department is too small.

Let me tell you about me: I live about 50 minutes from Pittsburgh and have a Bengals helmet in my office. Name any good Bengal player from the last 30 years and I probably have atleast 1 of their autographs. People I work with are all Steelers fans and they know I like the Bengals.

I REALLY want to see this team win and start beating the Steelers.

Geno Atkins is probably my favorite player and should be in the HOF. I like Mixon, Boyd, Green, and Dalton. I have Dalton and Green McFarlane figurines.

I definitely do not want this team to lose.

I won my fantasy football league where I get a jersey and I'll probably buy a retro Esiason one. I'll occasionally wear it in Pittsburgh.

Seeing other teams have 2-3 times as many scouts as us...I recognize an issue there. Does that mean that every player we draft is bad? No it doesn't. We draft good players occasionally. Some REALLY good players. Some HOF caliber guys in Atkins and Green.

But law of averages gets you over the long-run and I think that's what we see with our drafts. We draft some good players, but also we miss a decent bit. Couple that with not signing free agents much and you just don't win.

We've also not won a single playoff game since modern free agency began in 1992.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

Scouts are also needed to look at current NFL rosters and free agents, etc. for trades or player pickups when you see a like you like come free. This should not be understated.

I have never had a solid feel that this team has built a structure , even with Merv, a system where we know exactly the type of players we need and how said player would fit. Without that, the draft becomes a generic exercise and we may not pick the right guys for the system.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-06-2019, 06:25 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Scouts are also needed to look at current NFL rosters and free agents, etc. for trades or player pickups when you see a like you like come free. This should not be understated.

I have never had a solid feel that this team has built a structure , even with Merv, a system where we know exactly the type of players we need and how said player would fit. Without that, the draft becomes a generic exercise and we may not pick the right guys for the system.

That's exactly what I feel like we lack...the management structure to win.

You don't go through a span of time losing as much as we did in the 90's with a solid structure and system in place. And our management team is still the same. Marvin just found a way to thrive in that structure.

We shall see if Taylor can. I mean maybe Marvin was just a bad coach, but I doubt it.

[McC]

(03-06-2019, 07:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's exactly what I feel like we lack...the management structure to win.

You don't go through a span of time losing as much as we did in the 90's with a solid structure and system in place. And our management team is still the same. Marvin just found a way to thrive in that structure.

We shall see if Taylor can. I mean maybe Marvin was just a bad coach, but I doubt it.

Marvin was not a bad coach, per se.  It's just that he had some mighty big flaws that stayed flaws his entire time here.  And he sure seemed to run outa steam the last few years.

[THE PISTONS]

Relax guys...our scouts must have really liked Bobby Hart!

[fredtoast]

(03-11-2019, 07:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Relax guys...our scouts must have really liked Bobby Hart!

Our scouts never even looked at Bobby Hart.

You really don't understand how this works, do you?

[THE PISTONS]

(03-11-2019, 07:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Our scouts never even looked at Bobby Hart.

You really don't understand how this works, do you?

That's the problem!


Know Your Own Roster

Before pro scouts can even start to look to outside options — free agents, guys on the street, or potential trade targets — it’s essential to evaluate each and every player already on the roster, from the top down. “You have to know your football team,” said Mike McCartney, a former pro scout and director of pro personnel with the Bears and Eagles who’s pivoted to the agent side of the industry. “If you don’t know your own football team, first and foremost, you’re gonna make mistakes.”

[fredtoast]

(03-11-2019, 07:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's the problem!


Know Your Own Roster

Before pro scouts can even start to look to outside options — free agents, guys on the street, or potential trade targets — it’s essential to evaluate each and every player already on the roster, from the top down. “You have to know your football team,” said Mike McCartney, a former pro scout and director of pro personnel with the Bears and Eagles who’s pivoted to the agent side of the industry. “If you don’t know your own football team, first and foremost, you’re gonna make mistakes.”

Coaches and front office are the ones that know our own roster.  Scouts don't.

You think scouts are the ones making draft picks and signing free agents?  You just don't get it.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-12-2019, 08:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Coaches and front office are the ones that know our own roster.  Scouts don't.

You think scouts are the ones making draft picks and signing free agents?  You just don't get it.

From Bengals.com
'Taylor’s new coaching staff has spent its first month sifting through college and pro tape at the direction of the player personnel department looking to get a feel for what the coaches want and new offensive line coach Jim Turner made it quite clear he’d like Hart. He liked how hard Hart played and how athletic he is.'


https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-get-a-deal-with-hart