Hart signing does not bother me as long as it does not dictate Draft strategy

[depthchart]

I was Bobby Hart's biggest critic a year ago when the Bengals first brought him in from the Giants.

I expected a Cedric 2.0 type of performance from Hart and while he did not perform at a great or even very good level, he did appear to provide more stable protection than the Cedric/Fisher combo that preceded him.

Hart is what I would call barely good enough to start (could get a worse player and should try to find a better player) if you are the GM.

Hart is only 24 years old and should be coming in to his "man strength" over the next few years as he heads towards his physical prime & peak.

He was durable in 2018, starting all 16 games which is a positive factor.

The Bengals would have the ability to move on from him from a contract standpoint fairly easily after one season.


** The sticking point for me here is:  

How does this impact how the Bengals will Draft the Offensive Tackle position in 2019 & beyond ?

Are Glenn & Hart the penciled in 2019 starters with a feeling of contentment by the Bengals ?

Have the Bengals dropped the Left & Right Tackle positions from being say a Top 2 round possibility or even a Top 3 round possibility ?

Will they just pass on say a rookie Left Tackle that could be a solid 10 year plus option forcing Glenn to Right Tackle & Hart to the bench ?

Would they pass on say a rookie Right Tackle that could be a solid 10 year plus option forcing Hart to the bench ?

Will they simply Draft a mid round to late round Tackle prospect or two to develop while passing on the Top early round Offensive Tackle talent in the 2019 Draft ?


I tend to think they will pass on using Higher round picks on the Offensive Tackle position now and this is my sticking point.


If I had to guess, I would expect no more than one Offensive lineman to be taken within the first 3 rounds in 2019 and that would likely be a Guard. (If that)


On the PRO side:  they can fill other holes/positions early


On the CON side:  O-line tackle upgrades remain neglected


My fear is that the Bengals are content with the Glenn/Hart bookends and this may cause them to let an early round upgrade slip right on past them in the 2019 Draft.

Their PLAN still has time to fully unfold but it is hard to be Stoked right now...

[THE PISTONS]

I was waiting for someone to finally give an opinion on what they thought of the Bobby Hart signing. Finally! Now I can stop clicking Refresh.

[THE PISTONS]

In all seriousness, I agree. If they actually go ahead and draft an OT of the future then it's not so bad of a move.
..other than it still took $7 million dollars away from upgrading somewhere else on the team.

IF they draft an OT in the 4th Round, and plan to start Hart for 3 years, then it's much, much, worse.

His contract isn't terrible in Years 2 and 3...and as a 3rd OT that would be ok.

[*psychdoctor*]

I think a new RG and Healthy Price may help the line. But What I think the Bengals will do is draft Hockenson at 11 who is excellent at blocking and use Fisher on some plays to help.

I also think they will draft a stud Guard this year in Lindstrom or Bradbury from NC.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-13-2019, 02:08 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think a new RG and Healthy Price may help the line.  But What I think the Bengals will do is draft Hockenson at 11 who is excellent at blocking and use Fisher on some plays to help.  

I also think they will draft a stud Guard this year in Lindstrom or Bradbury from NC.

Fisher is a free agent.

The best case I can make for Hockenstein is that when Eifert was healthy, our offense looked really good.

[lone bengal]

My concern is that the Hart deal will make them neglect the Tackle position till later on which I think is a mistake. You can have all the skill guys Green, Boyd, Mixon, Ross and draft a stud TE at 11 and it all dosen't matter if you can't win the line of scrimmage.

[depthchart]

(03-13-2019, 02:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: In all seriousness,

IF they draft an OT in the 4th Round, and plan to start Hart for 3 years, then it's much, much, worse.

I am definitely late to the Hart comment game but I barely have time to Post anymore.

Contentment may be the Bengals biggest problem.

Hart provides a fairly decent cost versus production value while proving durable last season.

He may easily become the next Bodine in terms of letting him play out his contract as a starter.

The Bengals have to start seeing the Value of Investing in Upgrades versus filling holes or being Content with the lowest tier barely starting caliber band aids.

They need to let the Drafts come to them and Upgrade where possible when the talent is there.

Being open minded to any position early in a Draft that could provide an Upgrade versus avoiding certain positions early altogether.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-13-2019, 02:20 PM)depthchart Wrote: I am definitely late to the Hart comment game but I barely have time to Post anymore.

Contentment may be the Bengals biggest problem.

Hart provides a fairly decent cost versus production value while proving durable last season.

He may easily become the next Bodine in terms of letting him play out his contract as a starter.

The Bengals have to start seeing the Value of Investing in Upgrades versus filling holes or being Content with the lowest tier barely starting caliber band aids.

They need to let the Drafts come to them and Upgrade where possible when the talent is there.

Being open minded to any position early in a Draft that could provide an Upgrade versus avoiding certain positions early altogether.

From what I read on Bengals.com, Turner loves Hart and wants him to be the starter.

I've posted about how free agency is weak at Tackle and we should draft one. I still see that as our best path.

But, we still need a starting TE. We may need a CB. We need a starting OT and Guard. We need a LB.

Basically our needs entering free agency are the same as they are now, minus Preston Brown.

[MentalRage]

(03-13-2019, 02:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Fisher is a free agent.

The best case I can make for Hockenstein is that when Eifert was healthy, our offense looked really good.

Fisher is also in the midst of becoming a blocking tight end. He no longer wants/is trying to play OT.

[depthchart]

(03-13-2019, 02:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I've posted about how free agency is weak at Tackle and we should draft one. I still see that as our best path.

But, we still need a starting TE. We may need a CB. We need a starting OT and Guard. We need a LB.

Offensive Tackles are seeming to be hard to come by lately.

As you say, Free Agency is fairly weak at Tackle and seems LOADED at defensive position. The early part of the 2019 Draft also seems LOADED at defensive positions.

Signing Hart may not be such a bad thing if COUPLED with a first round Offensive Tackle with 10 year stud potential or even an early 2nd rounder.

Defensive players may seep deeper into the 2nd and 3rd rounds given how plentiful they seem to be in Free Agency & in this coming Draft.

May want to Corner the Offensive Tackle Market in the Draft early since the pickings are fairly few and other teams are in need of them.

Hart becomes a valuable short term Bridge to an Upgrade.

[*psychdoctor*]

(03-13-2019, 02:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Fisher is a free agent.

The best case I can make for Hockenstein is that when Eifert was healthy, our offense looked really good.

Now imagine Hockenson and healthy Eifert on the field together.  It could happen albeit more likely Hockenson and Uzi.  Remember how Reggie Smith helped the O-Line?  The Bengals need a new TE that can block.  

[THE PISTONS]

(03-13-2019, 02:32 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Now imagine Hockenson and healthy Eifert on the field together.  It could happen albeit more likely Hockenson and Uzi.  Remember how Reggie Smith helped the O-Line?  The Bengals need a new TE that can block.  

Eifert has played in way under half of his career games.

In this market he likely costs $9 million a year. I doubt we have that type of cash to spend on him.

Lets see what they do with Dennard.

[depthchart]

(03-13-2019, 02:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Eifert has played in way under half of his career games.

In this market he likely costs $9 million a year. I doubt we have that type of cash to spend on him.

Lets see what they do with Dennard.

As of right now, my guess is that the tight end T. J. Hockenson will be the Bengals first round pick.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-13-2019, 02:20 PM)depthchart Wrote: Hart provides a fairly decent cost versus production value

How do you figure? 10 sacks allowed, 11 penalties committed. $5-7m/yr means he is most certainly starting. Who cares about durability when the guy is awful? Having an atrocious player on the field MORE is not a good thing. Hart being signed at any price above minimum is terrible cost versus production value.

[depthchart]

(03-13-2019, 03:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: How do you figure? 10 sacks allowed, 11 penalties committed. $5-7m/yr means he is most certainly starting. Who cares about durability when the guy is awful? Having an atrocious player on the field MORE is not a good thing. Hart being signed at any price above minimum is terrible cost versus production value.

I just don't consider Hart to be an atrocious player.

Granted, he is on that bottom tier of starting caliber tackles.

32 teams with 64 starting tackles and Hart hovers in that 60 to 70 range.

If Hart ends up making $7 million per year then he will be performing well to do so.

Making $5 million per year is in the area of low end veteran starter money which is what Hart is.

In the grand scheme of Tackle contracts, the Bengals get to know what they have in the 24 year old Hart versus maybe missing worse on another Free Agent.

They can part with Hart easily after one year and my "sticking point" involves the Bengals trying to find a rookie upgrade as soon as possible.

Not sure what other Free Agent you would have preferred and at what price.

I just don't see the SKY Falling here but that will Hinge on how the Bengals view all of this.

If Hart is their guy for the next 3 years then I see clouds at my feet.

If this move is a Bridge to a rookie upgrade then the money involved doesn't break the Bank in today's NFL.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-13-2019, 03:50 PM)depthchart Wrote: I just don't consider Hart to be an atrocious player.

Granted, he is on that bottom tier of starting caliber tackles.

32 teams with 64 starting tackles and Hart hovers in that 60 to 70 range.

If Hart ends up making $7 million per year then he will be performing well to do so.

Making $5 million per year is in the area of low end veteran starter money which is what Hart is.

In the grand scheme of Tackle contracts, the Bengals get to know what they have in the 24 year old Hart versus maybe missing worse on another Free Agent.

They can part with Hart easily after one year and my "sticking point" involves the Bengals trying to find a rookie upgrade as soon as possible.

Not sure what other Free Agent you would have preferred and at what price.

I just don't see the SKY Falling here but that will Hinge on how the Bengals view all of this.

If Hart is their guy for the next 3 years then I see clouds at my feet.

If this move is a Bridge to a rookie upgrade then the money involved doesn't break the Bank in today's NFL.

Your explanation about why the Hart signing here wasn't so bad...actually made me feel worse about it. 

[depthchart]

(03-13-2019, 04:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Your explanation about why the Hart signing here wasn't so bad...actually made me feel worse about it. 

I get that but you yourself mentioned how thin the Free Agent Tackle Market is.

The Bengals saw risk in letting Hart hit Free Agency so they signed him before hand.

They may have over paid some but an old Andre Smith went to Arizona a few years back for $4 million per year and the Market may be thinner & more expensive now.

To me, the Hart move is palatable if the Bengals don't stop looking for a rookie Upgrade.

[Sled21]

(03-13-2019, 01:47 PM)depthchart Wrote: I was Bobby Hart's biggest critic a year ago when the Bengals first brought him in from the Giants.

I expected a Cedric 2.0 type of performance from Hart and while he did not perform at a great or even very good level, he did appear to provide more stable protection than the Cedric/Fisher combo that preceded him.

Hart is what I would call barely good enough to start (could get a worse player and should try to find a better player) if you are the GM.

Hart is only 24 years old and should be coming in to his "man strength" over the next few years as he heads towards his physical prime & peak.

He was durable in 2018, starting all 16 games which is a positive factor.

The Bengals would have the ability to move on from him from a contract standpoint fairly easily after one season.


** The sticking point for me here is:  

How does this impact how the Bengals will Draft the Offensive Tackle position in 2019 & beyond ?

Are Glenn & Hart the penciled in 2019 starters with a feeling of contentment by the Bengals ?

Have the Bengals dropped the Left & Right Tackle positions from being say a Top 2 round possibility or even a Top 3 round possibility ?

Will they just pass on say a rookie Left Tackle that could be a solid 10 year plus option forcing Glenn to Right Tackle & Hart to the bench ?

Would they pass on say a rookie Right Tackle that could be a solid 10 year plus option forcing Hart to the bench ?

Will they simply Draft a mid round to late round Tackle prospect or two to develop while passing on the Top early round Offensive Tackle talent in the 2019 Draft ?


I tend to think they will pass on using Higher round picks on the Offensive Tackle position now and this is my sticking point.


If I had to guess, I would expect no more than one Offensive lineman to be taken within the first 3 rounds in 2019 and that would likely be a Guard. (If that)


On the PRO side:  they can fill other holes/positions early


On the CON side:  O-line tackle upgrades remain neglected


My fear is that the Bengals are content with the Glenn/Hart bookends and this may cause them to let an early round upgrade slip right on past them in the 2019 Draft.

Their PLAN still has time to fully unfold but it is hard to be Stoked right now...

It's simple, this signing gives them options. If we let Hart go, regardless of the coaches saying they like him, we would have zero right tackles on the team, and would have to reach for one. There are going to be quality OT's into the 3rd round of the upcoming draft. Having Hart in place gives the Bengals the option of going OT, or getting the DT from Clemson, or a Linebacker in the early rounds... all of which are needed. It's a sound strategy regardless of the endless hand wringing going on around here.....

[BengalChris]

The #11 pick will present the team with the option to upgrade OT, TE or LB, three positions of need.

We could also upgrade OG at that spot, but it's probably too early in this draft for that and Mike Brown will make sure we don't re-sign a top OG so that position would only be a rent-a-player cheap for 4 years, which seems like a complete waste for such a high pick.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-13-2019, 03:50 PM)depthchart Wrote: I just don't consider Hart to be an atrocious player.

Granted, he is on that bottom tier of starting caliber tackles.

32 teams with 64 starting tackles and Hart hovers in that 60 to 70 range.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

If Hart ends up making $7 million per year then he will be performing well to do so.

Making $5 million per year is in the area of low end veteran starter money which is what Hart is.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

I just don't see the SKY Falling here but that will Hinge on how the Bengals view all of this.

If Hart is their guy for the next 3 years then I see clouds at my feet.

If this move is a Bridge to a rookie upgrade then the money involved doesn't break the Bank in today's NFL.

He was 69th out of 70-75, with only 64 possible original starters, and he's not atrocious?

If he were a QB, he would be Josh Rosen (or worse) in 2018. Except Hart has now been terrible for FOUR years in the NFL.

It's not even like he is a former 1st round pick who has all this potential waiting to be tapped. The guy was a 7th round pick, so people weren't impressed BEFORE he entered the NFL, and then he entered the NFL and has shown to be nothing but terrible.

It's like if the Bengals decided this offseason to give James Wright $5-7m/yr. 7th round guy, has done nothing but play terribly, but decides to big against yourself and throw money at him anyway.

Any random late round rookie could give up 10 sacks and have 11 penalties. It's not like there's a high bar to be better, and for 1/10th-1/14th the cost. We KNOW Hart sucks, but at least the rookie has the potential to not suck. I have a feeling Year 5 of Bobby Hart is going to look a lot like the previous 4 terrible years.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Except that most of his incentives aren't based off of playing well, but just being around.

If he is ACTIVE (not even a starter) for 16 games and is terrible, he still hits a LOT of his incentives. If he is on the roster and is terrible, he still gets his bonuses.

His $7m isn't predicated on Pro Bowl, or All-Pro, or anything of that sort. Just being healthy and not being a healthy scratch on gameday.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Nobody signs players to 3 year deals for "bridges".

It doesn't break the bank, but it's $4.5-6.5m that you're wasting and not spending on actually improving the team.

Worse than the wasted money is the fact that you're resigning the OL to be absolute crap again in 2019. Hurray another wasted year... three of those on Ogbuehi wasn't enough. Now we need 2-4 of them on Hart!