Green is great-but is he really ELITE?

[djs7685]

(10-02-2015, 12:28 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree all WR's drop passes, but I disagree with a diving attempt (I do think he should have caught it) versus a clear drop are 2 different things. I love AJ, but he can't have simple LOS passes go through his hands, hit his helmet and go 15 yards up in the air. AJ proved his elite talent last week, but he also proved he needs to focus every play as he was lucky his drop was not a pic or a pic 6. Fix these issues and stay focused every down, he could end up being one of the best to ever play the game.

Everyone wants to label some players early in the career great or bad, the reality is AJ is still a young NFL receiver (experience) and I think his best days are ahead.

It's impossible for a player to be 100% "focused" and NEVER make mistakes.

The fact is that A.J. doesn't screw up on a more frequent basis than any of the other elite WRs in the league. Every WR has a dopey moment from time to time. Dez, Calvin, AB, Julio, they all screw up and A.J. screws up at about the same rate as most of those guys.

If you have both hands on a ball, let it hit your chest, and don't come down with it...that's a BAD drop. I don't care if you're diving or not, you make that catch and all of the elite guys make that catch 99/100 times including AB himself. It was simply a bad play that he wishes he could have back and that you won't see happen very often. Nothing more, nothing less. I was just pointing out that stuff like that happens to more than just A.J. Green, contrary to what people in this thread have been acting like.

[Utts]

(10-02-2015, 07:15 AM)djs7685 Wrote: It's not a straw man when it wasn't directed at anybody that didn't fit the description, doofus.

Look. You were directing it at a group of people. It was very much a straw man argument, something that's used in many forms every 5 minutes here. Your personal insults tell me I've apparently gotten under your skin by exposing you. Calm down.

[Stormborn]

Flacco elite yet?

[The Caped Crusader]

(10-04-2015, 02:52 AM)Stormborn Wrote: Flacco elite yet?

[reuben.ahmed]

It's a pass happy era, right? I didn't comb the thread to see if this stat was posted, but here you go.

AJ Green is 3rd all time in Yards Per Game.

1. Julio Jones (26) 91.7 2011-2015 atl
2. Calvin Johnson (30) 86.9 2007-2015 det
3. A.J. Green (27) 82.7 2011-2015 cin

[Beaker]

(09-14-2015, 09:57 AM)Whacked Wrote: Love him and thankful to have him but not sure he ELITE

Too many dropped simple passes and does not fight for the ball amongst other petty things

Don't get me wrong - I think he is excellent but not ELITE 

(*Cue the homers..........)

I agree with this. Very good, but not yet elite. Until he fixes the drops, fumbles, and not fighting for the ball at key times, he should not be considered elite. Elite WRs are the ones who make those plays at key times and lift their teams when needed most. He makes some great catches, but has also disappeared at some key times. Some will say its because the D took him away. But a D cannot take away a truly elite WR. They will throw the ball to the Calvin Johnsons and Dez Bryants...even when theyre covered...and trust them to make a play. I think Green is moving in that direction. He had good catches against the ravens, but he also didnt fight for that INT in the endzone. The DB got position on him and Green didnt make a reach over or around the DB in an attempt to prevent the INT. Thats what truly elite WRs will do....either reach over the guy and make the catch anyway, or prevent the INT. But I think with Hue riding his butt, you will see him start to make more and more of those type of plays.

[reuben.ahmed]

If everyone (i.e. all WRs and Eifert) stay healthy this year, AJ will clearly be elite (he has this year, averaging 110 yards per game). Julio Jones is a cut better right now.

I will be so happy to see AJ get offensive pass interference when stopping an INT. It's tough for a WR to go from "I can catch that" to defense mode, AJ likely thinks he can/should catch anything (we know that's MJ's attitude).

[*bengalfan74*]

A.J. has been displaying some fire and passion this season ! I so hope he keeps it up

[Fresno B]

(10-04-2015, 09:37 AM)Beaker Wrote: I agree with this. Very good, but not yet elite. Until he fixes the drops, fumbles, and not fighting for the ball at key times, he should not be considered elite. Elite WRs are the ones who make those plays at key times and lift their teams when needed most. He makes some great catches, but has also disappeared at some key times. Some will say its because the D took him away. But a D cannot take away a truly elite WR. They will throw the ball to the Calvin Johnsons and Dez Bryants...even when theyre covered...and trust them to make a play. I think Green is moving in that direction. He had good catches against the ravens, but he also didnt fight for that INT in the endzone. The DB got position on him and Green didnt make a reach over or around the DB in an attempt to prevent the INT. Thats what truly elite WRs will do....either reach over the guy and make the catch anyway, or prevent the INT. But I think with Hue riding his butt, you will see him start to make more and more of those type of plays.

Who is an elite receiver? By your standards there are none.???

[Whacked]

(10-04-2015, 09:37 AM)Beaker Wrote: I agree with this. Very good, but not yet elite. Until he fixes the drops, fumbles, and not fighting for the ball at key times, he should not be considered elite. Elite WRs are the ones who make those plays at key times and lift their teams when needed most. He makes some great catches, but has also disappeared at some key times. Some will say its because the D took him away. But a D cannot take away a truly elite WR. They will throw the ball to the Calvin Johnsons and Dez Bryants...even when theyre covered...and trust them to make a play. I think Green is moving in that direction. He had good catches against the ravens, but he also didnt fight for that INT in the endzone. The DB got position on him and Green didnt make a reach over or around the DB in an attempt to prevent the INT. Thats what truly elite WRs will do....either reach over the guy and make the catch anyway, or prevent the INT. But I think with Hue riding his butt, you will see him start to make more and more of those type of plays.

Can I get an AMEN?! 

[Whacked]

Even Steve Smith Sr (who I can't stand) is more of a BALLER. Dude is only 4'7" 125 lbs (?lol?) and owns anything (and anyone) near him when the ball is launched. He will scrap w you every down and IMO, is the offensive version of my fav Bengal = Adam Jones

Dez = Ditto.

That passion and innate fire and need to win in everything you do is invaluable.

Burfict, Jones, Steve Smith Sr = ALL HEART.

None of them is really a "naturally gifted" physical specimen. They EARN every yard or defensive play with will and self confidence and swagger (that is backed up by their play).

I love AJ and value him tremendously but in the context of this thread, these sorts of points are valid as they negate his potential to enter the Elite status realm.

Don't get me wrong: AJ > Steve Smith Sr but since we are discussing qualities that make a player "elite"; I referenced Smith.

If Smith had AJ's natural gifts? God help any team trying to cover him.

[Fresno B]

(10-04-2015, 09:37 AM)Beaker Wrote: I agree with this. Very good, but not yet elite. Until he fixes the drops, fumbles, and not fighting for the ball at key times, he should not be considered elite. Elite WRs are the ones who make those plays at key times and lift their teams when needed most. He makes some great catches, but has also disappeared at some key times. Some will say its because the D took him away. But a D cannot take away a truly elite WR. They will throw the ball to the Calvin Johnsons and Dez Bryants...even when theyre covered...and trust them to make a play. I think Green is moving in that direction. He had good catches against the ravens, but he also didnt fight for that INT in the endzone. The DB got position on him and Green didnt make a reach over or around the DB in an attempt to prevent the INT. Thats what truly elite WRs will do....either reach over the guy and make the catch anyway, or prevent the INT. But I think with Hue riding his butt, you will see him start to make more and more of those type of plays.

Yeah. I can imagine "elite" Antonio Brown jumping up in front of Jimmy Smith and preventing the pick?????

[fozzie11]

Of course he's elite,but that doesn't mean he should be above criticism, every player has weaknesses, it's what drives them to get better. it's like saying yeah Aaron Rodgers is good but he misses some easy throws sometimes. human beings make mistakes at times.

[djs7685]

(10-04-2015, 09:37 AM)Beaker Wrote: I agree with this. Very good, but not yet elite. Until he fixes the drops, fumbles, and not fighting for the ball at key times, he should not be considered elite. Elite WRs are the ones who make those plays at key times and lift their teams when needed most. He makes some great catches, but has also disappeared at some key times. Some will say its because the D took him away. But a D cannot take away a truly elite WR. They will throw the ball to the Calvin Johnsons and Dez Bryants...even when theyre covered...and trust them to make a play. I think Green is moving in that direction. He had good catches against the ravens, but he also didnt fight for that INT in the endzone. The DB got position on him and Green didnt make a reach over or around the DB in an attempt to prevent the INT. Thats what truly elite WRs will do....either reach over the guy and make the catch anyway, or prevent the INT. But I think with Hue riding his butt, you will see him start to make more and more of those type of plays.

This post would make a lot more sense if Calvin, AB, and Dez all haven't been contained by double coverage in their careers as well.

Every WR has been taken away in games before, people need to watch outside of Cincinnati instead of making silly comments that aren't even true.

[djs7685]

(10-04-2015, 01:29 AM)Utts Wrote: Look. You were directing it at a group of people. It was very much a straw man argument, something that's used in many forms every 5 minutes here. Your personal insults tell me I've apparently gotten under your skin by exposing you. Calm down.

It's not a straw man if you know what that actually means of course. You obviously don't.

Some people have said that "elite receivers don't drop easy passes". I merely showed 2 examples of elite receivers dropping easy passes. Not a straw man argument, it's just a reality that people like you hate to see happen because it destroys your arguments against A.J.

I've watched every "elite" receiver in the game drop just as many easy passes as A.J. has. It's not something that's exclusive to 1 guy, all of the great WRs do this.

Pro tip: if you don't actually know what a certain phrase means, don't use it because you'll look dumb whenever someone points out the real meaning. A straw man would have been me making a point against something that's never been claimed. My point was arguing something that more than 1 poster has said in this very thread, so hurr durrr you may want to read the thread next time before making shitty comments.

[*rfaulk34*]

He certainly has a strong case for being:

First 4 years, receptions (3rd)


First 4 years, yards (4th)


First 4 years, Y/P reception (14th)


First 4 years, touchdowns (7th)


First 4 years, Y/P game (5th)


Top current receivers, in no particular order;
Antonio Brown
Calvin Johnson
Dez Bryant
Demaryius Thomas
Julio Jones
AJ Green

There are some other guys looking to get their names on the list, but personally, i'd put a solid line for "elite" at #5. 

WTS, i'd probably place him currently at #4 or #5.

This year, he's currently:
T-14th in receptions (25) leader- 42
T-24th in targets (35) leader- 75
5th in yards (417) leader- 578
13th in Y/R (16.7) leader- 22.0
T-7th in TDs (3) leader- 5
T-9th in 20+ yd receptions (6) leader- 10
5th in Y/G (104.3) leader- 119.5

**DeAndre Hopkins is jacking up a couple of those numbers since he now has 1 more game than the others.

[Joelist]

AJ Green 2015 is looking really nice! Playing the ball better, getting the extra yards and so on. Still a couple of drops, and so far he has not had a play where he had to turn defender and stop an INT. But still very nice!

[Night's Watch]

(10-04-2015, 12:49 PM)djs7685 Wrote: It's not a straw man if you know what that actually means of course. You obviously don't.

Some people have said that "elite receivers don't drop easy passes". I merely showed 2 examples of elite receivers dropping easy passes. Not a straw man argument, it's just a reality that people like you hate to see happen because it destroys your arguments against A.J.

I've watched every "elite" receiver in the game drop just as many easy passes as A.J. has. It's not something that's exclusive to 1 guy, all of the great WRs do this.

Pro tip: if you don't actually know what a certain phrase means, don't use it because you'll look dumb whenever someone points out the real meaning. A straw man would have been me making a point against something that's never been claimed. My point was arguing something that more than 1 poster has said in this very thread, so hurr durrr you may want to read the thread next time before making shitty comments.

Yep, I watch a drive of Atlanta last week, Julio dropped a ball, he was wide open by 4 yards cross towards the middle of the field about 8 yards from the line of scrimmage. Hit him in the hands as his head was turning up field to run after the catch.  Guess he is not "elite" either and doesn't play with enough focus and heart.

[type_stripe]

(10-10-2015, 05:00 PM)Night Wrote: Yep, I watch a drive of Atlanta last week, Julio dropped a ball, he was wide open by 4 yards cross towards the middle of the field about 8 yards from the line of scrimmage. Hit him in the hands as his head was turning up field to run after the catch.  Guess he is not "elite" either and doesn't play with enough focus and heart.

They know nothing Jon Snow

[Curtis85]

(09-14-2015, 09:57 AM)Whacked Wrote: Love him and thankful to have him but not sure he ELITE

Too many dropped simple passes and does not fight for the ball amongst other petty things

Don't get me wrong - I think he is excellent but not ELITE

I'm curious. Who do you consider "elite" at the WR position ?