List Of LB Type Safeties We Need After Round 1

[kevin]

Bengals Coach already says in Today's NFL your defense is in nickel 80 % of the time. The problem with that is teams, especially Bengals, are getting burned on the run in pass coverage. If Bengals cover the run, they get burned on the pass. Therefore in the 80 % of the time nickle D, you better have a DB back the size of a LB like David Fulcher.

Taylor Rapp, Washington
Nasir Adderly, Delaware
Juan Thornhill, Virginia
Jonathan Abram- Mississippi State
Chauncey Gardner Johnson- Florida

I don't care where they draft a big, fast, talented DB with LB size, but if they are going to be in the nickle 80% of the time, they best get one. These 5 are listed at 6 feet tall or more and 200 pounds or more, but safeties. OK, safeties with linebacker size when teams try to burn us on the run in the nickle. Bengals getting burned over the middle and in the zone gaps by tight ends, running back passes, running back trap plays, quarterback runs. The answer is not a linebacker or a DB. The answer is a DB the size of a LB to cover these gaps in our zone nickles. Bengals get burned so bad, tight ends and RBs are wide open in the gaps. We need more big LB types at DB if Bengals are in nickle 80% of time as coaches say. These guys can tackle and lay on the hits per NFL Rules. There is a right way and a wrong way. Burfict became the illegal way. There are legal ways for a LB size Safety to stop somebody.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-29-2019, 02:16 PM)kevin Wrote: Bengals Coach already says in Today's NFL your defense is in nickel 80 % of the time. The problem with that is teams, especially Bengals, are getting burned on the run in pass coverage. If Bengals cover the run, they get burned on the pass. Therefore in the 80 % of the time nickle D, you better have a DB back the size of a LB like David Fulcher.

Taylor Rapp, Washington
Nasir Adderly, Delaware
Juan Thornhill, Virginia
Jonathan Abram- Mississippi State
Chauncey Gardner Johnson- Florida

I don't care where they draft a big, fast, talented DB with LB size, but if they are going to be in the nickle 80% of the time, they best get one. These 5 are listed at 6 feet tall or more and 200 pounds or more, but safeties. OK, safeties with linebacker size when teams try to burn us on the run in the nickle. Bengals getting burned over the middle and in the zone gaps by tight ends, running back passes, running back trap plays, quarterback runs. The answer is not a linebacker or a DB. The answer is a DB the size of a LB to cover these gaps in our zone nickles. Bengals get burned so bad, tight ends and RBs are wide open in the gaps. We need more big LB types at DB if Bengals are in nickle 80% of time as coaches say. These guys can tackle and lay on the hits per NFL Rules. There is a right way and a wrong way. Burfict became the illegal way. There are legal ways for a LB size Safety to stop somebody.

Seems like NFL Defenses are starting to really lean this way more and more and with the way the Chargers used 3 Safeties on the Ravens last year in the Playoffs and it worked so good this sounds like a good plan. Still think Shawn can play this position but we need all the help we can get at Linebacker, especially with speed, instincts and tackling ability. Shawn lacks with some of these characteristics.

[Goalpost]

Thornhill is the freak. He is a corner who moved to safety, yet he still outlifted all the safties, but one, at the combine. He ran a 4.42, and was number one overall in both vertical and broad jump... all players...regardless of position.

[Okeana]

Jonathan Abram is hands down the guy I would use as a SS and nickel linebacker. I wouldn't be mad at all if we took him in round 2 and with Shawn Williams coming to end of his contract we need to address it sooner rather than later.

[Au165]

...or you draft LBs who can cover. The myth of safety at LB being this great thing is pretty funny. There were a couple years where it was all the rage but it has died off quite a bit. Deonne Buccanon was the poster child for it and it just never worked out. Some have been serviceable but this idea you’d do it all the time and it would be great just never materialized. Williams is a good safety and frankly the secondary as a whole was actually really good. The historically bad LB group was the downfall in coverage and a safety doesn’t fix that...a LB fixes that.

[Okeana]

(03-30-2019, 02:40 PM)Au165 Wrote: ...or you draft LBs who can cover. The myth of safety at LB being this great thing is pretty funny. There were a couple years where it was all the rage but it has died off quite a bit. Deonne Buccanon was the poster child for it and it just never worked out. Some have been serviceable but this idea you’d do it all the time and it would be great just never materialized. Williams is a good safety and frankly the secondary as a whole was actually really good. The historically bad LB group was the downfall in coverage and a safety doesn’t fix that...a LB fixes that.

The real poster child was Troy Polamalu.  Why are you arguing about drafting a LB? everyone knows we need linebackers bro so stop beating a dead horse.  Williams is coming to the end of his contract and adding talent is never a bad thing because there are plenty of times you can fit 3 safeties on the field.  I think what most people myself included have realized is that this safety class is really strong while the linebackers are really thin.  Devin White is a great prospect, but he is scary as **** to me because he's really not a great linebacker.  The guy wins on his athletic talent at the college level, but when he gets to the league and he needs to have those linebacker fundamentals he will be found wanting.  This draft is going to be interesting depending on who drops, if trades are available, and how we address needs without overreaching.  I was a guy who was a big supporter of the John Ross pick and I learned a valuable lesson in that draft which is never overdraft a position of need because of potential.  

[Au165]

(03-30-2019, 05:43 PM)Okeana Wrote: The real poster child was Troy Polamalu.  Why are you arguing about drafting a LB? everyone knows we need linebackers bro so stop beating a dead horse.  Williams is coming to the end of his contract and adding talent is never a bad thing because there are plenty of times you can fit 3 safeties on the field.  I think what most people myself included have realized is that this safety class is really strong while the linebackers are really thin.  Devin White is a great prospect, but he is scary as **** to me because he's really not a great linebacker.  The guy wins on his athletic talent at the college level, but when he gets to the league and he needs to have those linebacker fundamentals he will be found wanting.  This draft is going to be interesting depending on who drops, if trades are available, and how we address needs without overreaching.  I was a guy who was a big supporter of the John Ross pick and I learned a valuable lesson in that draft which is never overdraft a position of need because of potential.  

As was posted in another thread, LB is one of the most bust resistant positions to take in the 1st. The more you can keep your linebackers on the field in coverage situations the better your run defense will be. I’ll keep beating the horse because our base is so bad teams will simply come out heavy and throw against a base d or they will run on your big nickle formation like the Patriots did to the Chargers. It’s not like our run defense was great last year anyways, so again getting better LBs on the field in all situations is imperative.

The other concern is that it’s not a seamless transition to just say “hey safety play LB”. Those guys have played with space historically so asking them to give up depth and take on blockers creates new opportunities to bust. It’s easy to say the fundamentals of some of the LB’s are sketchy, but how good of LB fundamentals do you think these safeties have?

[kevin]

Again, I'm not saying don't draft a linebacker in round 1.

What I'm saying is AFTER round 1, we could use a good linebacker size DB.

Even with Williams, even with our other DB's, we need more help and dept at DB if we are going to be in the nickle 80% of the time as new coach says. Plus factor in injuries over the season. Good solid depth at DB is needed. Plus our linebackers don't cover the pass well, they just don't. So we could use one of these linebacker size DB's AFTER the 1st Round. AFTER the 1st Round.

So go ahead and take whoever in Round 1, but then start thinking about a linebacker size DB in 2nd or 3rd round. I'll add 3rd round because Bengals also need a top pick offensive tackle. We were weak at tackle and we just got weaker in off season. Yes we have guards and Centers, but the need for quality tackles at 6' 7 " or 6'8 " and around 300 lbs, yet still have quick feet to not get burned on outside pass rush, we don't have nearly enough of that to win.

So yes we need Linebacker. I add we need offensive tackle. Still, by round 3 we need a linebacker size safety if we are going to be in the nickle 80 % of the time. If we are going to be taking linebackers out to play the nickle most of the time, we better at least try to get a monster man back there in the DB's. I say in early rounds because he must have some talent, not just big.

I'm giving up on Ohio State QB even if he falls to us in round 1, the reason being the plan is Dalton in 2019. To draft a QB in One with no intention of playing him is stupid. So in first 3 rounds I'm hoping LB, OT, DB the size of a LB for all this 80% nickle D.

There are other things we need from Round 4 on. Certainly a good RB if one is still on the board, as Paul Brown said, it's hard to pass up good young depth at RB. Due to Eiferts injury's, a TE in late rounds wouldn't hurt. There may be a QB in rounds 4 or 5 that the new coach wants as solid back-up. Of course the Special Teams coach will want some late round picks. If the Bengals get LB, OT, a DB the size of a LB and then in 4 & 5 get a QB and a RB, and a TE in the last rounds, that sounds positive to me. The new coaches may not be happy with Marvin's fullback situation either, which could come into play in late rounds, as could kicker.

On more thing on a LB size DB. If we are in the nickle 80 % of the time, that means not just 3rd and long or 2nd and long. On 2nd and 5 or 3rd and 5, you don't know it's not going to be a run. That is where NFL QB's read the defense, audible and burn you. That is where your linebacker size DB helps. Someone mentioned Polamalu. I'll go back further to David Fulcher or Ronnie Lott. I'll add more recent Bengals Nelson made big game winning plays on runners and receivers. Losing Nelson and then IIoka plus Hall and Pacman creates a need, even with Bates Motel. In 2018 opposing QBs game after game were finding wide open areas in Bengals zones, and going scorched earth up and down the field easy on Bengals.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-29-2019, 09:44 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Thornhill is the freak.  He is a corner who moved to safety, yet he still outlifted all the safties, but one, at the combine.  He ran a 4.42, and was number one overall in both vertical and broad jump... all players...regardless of position.

He's more than just a burner with hops, too.  He has incredible ball skills (that's what she said)

He had 13 INTs and 26 PBUs in his three years as a starter.  That is WJII-type production.

If he is available when we pick in Rd 3, take him.  And, honestly, I see him as a 2nd round talent, but there are so many strong candidates at DT, LB, and OT that I feel that is where our first two rounds will take us.