What have the Bengals been doing right.

[fredtoast]

(04-05-2019, 02:17 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: So what? Teams will take a flier on troubled players because it doesn’t cost them much. Look at NE and Gordon. How did that work out?

Doesn't make sense to say no other team would keep them when other teams are keeping them.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-05-2019, 02:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Doesn't make sense to say no other team would keep them when other teams are keeping them.

Those other teams are keeping them for ONE YEAR, maybe less. In Pacman’s case it was as a returner. Do you not see the difference of counting on someone as your #1CB compared to a return man?

I’m not even saying I would have cut either player sooner btw, as I liked both, but most teams would have after continually being burned by them.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-04-2019, 11:34 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Fred’s favorite band...

...and Fred is "little miss can't be wrong".

[Shake n Blake]

 Things I like:

1. We had a stretch of good drafts from 2010-2013 that really laid a solid foundation.
2. We fired Marvin and let Taylor pick his own staff.
3. We had some good coordinators for awhile (Zim, Jay, Hue, Guenther)
4. We fired Paul after 20+ years.
5. We keep most of our own good players.

To quote Marvin, we did some good things, but not enough good things consistently (clap, clap, giggle).  :giggle:

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(04-05-2019, 11:46 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hockey is a little different though in having to scout Europe as well as NA. But there’s nothing wrong with having a big scouting department. There’s really no downside is there? Other than having to spend more money...

It is relative though, the Jets have one of e largest scouting staffs in the NHL and they have built an elite team from it. It is a matter of investment in the scouts which leads to a larger number of better players. Everyone here fully understands how the team is run and how they built a winner.

Merv used to spout that the players on the Bengal board were picked right where we had them slotted. But he was not bright enough to realize that simply meant you had an average board. Big deal,mother team needs to pick the players BETTER than other teams not just like them.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-04-2019, 10:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: First of all please don't turn this into another argument about how the Bengals suck no matter what.  I am not claiming that the Bengals have been great over the last decade.  I am not saying anyone should be satisfied with what they have done over the last decade, but the fact is that the Bengals have outperformed a lot of the other teams in the league over the last 10 years.

-They had a better winning percentage than 19 teams despite playing in the toughest divisions in the league.
-They were 9th in wins against playoff teams.
-They were 8th in wins against teams that finished with a winning record.
-Only 3 teams made the playoffs more than them.

So no matter how much you like to complain about the Bengals you have to admit they had to be doing something better than many other teams.

What was it?

Well, people will hate this, but they didn't make snap decisions.  I am amazed at the number of NFL coaches given one or two years and then dumped before they really get their feet on the ground.  The Bengals undoubtedly stayed with Lewis too long, but their consistency in the coaching staff is one of the reasons they had a solid 5 year playoff run.  

The other thing that kind of goes hand-in-hand with the lack of snap decision making is that when they finally decided to move on, they let the new coach build his staff and they are unlikely to give up on him right away.  Sure, the Bengal's brass needs to do something to reverse the rapidly declining season ticket base, but it is not going to see much of an impact from a change in the coaching staff.

This team has to become fun to watch again.  I believe that the Bengals did the right thing by going with a younger, innovative coach instead of trying to make a splash with a trade-up to get a player like Haskins.  That would be the easy way out.  Try and get the Buckeye fans to jump on board.  However, it would not work with the old coaching staff.  They had to go younger and more creative.  I think that was the wise direction.

I have no idea if they would go after Haskins.  If he somehow fell to them, they would surely grab him but I doubt they try and trade up for him.  The price would be way too high for a team that values compensatory picks as much as I value coffee and bourbon.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-05-2019, 11:41 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: The irony is the team lives and dies by the draft but has the smallest scouting staff in the league. I have noted the NHL Winnipeg Jets before on the this forum, small city and they live and die with the draft but the have an elite and large scouting staff. Top 5 in the league if not top 2.

No issue with living with the draft, big issue if you don't support the concept.

We have killed a few drafts but been killed by many as well, seems over a long period of time our drafting is average. same with our coaches, overall. 

The Steelers and Ravens are essentially the same model - use the draft and very little in FA - but they have drafted and coached better.

I sure as hell don't think they have drafted better of late, but I 100% agree with ou about having the better coaching.  

[*ochocincos*]

I think we’re finally starting to see accountability with the players more. Burfict cut. Walton cut. Miller brought in cuz Redmond didn’t deserve to be handed RG job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SunsetBengal]

(04-07-2019, 08:51 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I think we’re finally starting to see accountability with the players more. Burfict cut. Walton cut. Miller brought in cuz Redmond didn’t deserve to be handed RG job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great point, a lot of little changes can add up to a lot of improvement.  Many fail to acknowledge all of the little improvements, simply because they didn't see the one, huge, monumental signing or acquisition that made big, public news.  A big, splashy signing is great, when your roster has only one hole to fill in order to be a serious contender.  But, when there are at least a half dozen positions that need improvement, you need to upgrade the overall quality of your roster stock, before adding a marquis player will make that big impact on wins.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-07-2019, 10:19 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Great point, a lot of little changes can add up to a lot of improvement.  Many fail to acknowledge all of the little improvements, simply because they didn't see the one, huge, monumental signing or acquisition that made big, public news.  A big, splashy signing is great, when your roster has only one hole to fill in order to be a serious contender.  But, when there are at least a half dozen positions that need improvement, you need to upgrade the overall quality of your roster stock, before adding a marquis player will make that big impact on wins.

Normally I agree with you, but I don't think anyone wanted a mega signing. A mid-tier signing or two would've done just fine. A true upgrade. Tbh, I'm not sure how much we truly upgraded this roster. BW Webb? John Miller? I guess those were minor upgrades to Redmond and whoever our 4th CB was. When you're coming off of 3 straight losing seasons, I don't think that's getting it. 

I sense no urgency with those signings. Feels like a typical ho-hum day at the office.

I agree on the cuts though. Props to them for doing the right thing. That's something we couldn't count on in the past.

[PV Bengal]

How's this for a question ... Which is better, doing the right things OR doing things right?
Think about that for a minute and write down your answer.
The REAL ANSWER to the question is NEITHER ONE !!!
Why? Because if you're doing the "right things", but doing them in the wrong way, you are not going to be successful. If you are doing "things right", but you're going the wrongs things, you aren't going to be successful either.
The only way to ensure success is by "doing the right things right".

[NKURyan]

(04-07-2019, 10:56 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Normally I agree with you, but I don't think anyone wanted a mega signing. A mid-tier signing or two would've done just fine. A true upgrade. Tbh, I'm not sure how much we truly upgraded this roster. BW Webb? John Miller? I guess those were minor upgrades to Redmond and whoever our 4th CB was. When you're coming off of 3 straight losing seasons, I don't think that's getting it. 

I sense no urgency with those signings. Feels like a typical ho-hum day at the office.

I agree on the cuts though. Props to them for doing the right thing. That's something we couldn't count on in the past.

I think an interesting comparison (albeit in a different sport) can be found a few blocks away in the Cincinnati Reds. Everyone thought after last year that the Reds were going to be bad. The Reds went out, were very active in the offseason, and brought in a bunch of new players. Many people still thought the Reds were going to be bad. The Reds, thus far, have been pretty bad (and granted, it's still a small sample size).

Now I know the counterpoint is going to be that at least the Reds went out and made an attempt at getting better and sparked interest in the fans, but have they really? I think fan apathy is already kicking in. And when all of these new players walk at the end of the season and the Reds are right back to square one, I wonder if it won't turn off a whole new group of fans who see this for what it was - lip service. I was skeptical that the Reds' signings were going to have any real impact on attendance, and I'm skeptical that if the Bengals had gone all in on FA it would've affected their ticket sales as well.

Maybe the Bengals don't think they are quite as close as some of us think they are? Or maybe the Bengals think the division is weak enough that they can hang around for a bit, while still keeping an eye primarily towards the future? We'll never really know the answer, but I could see either one. I'm not really sure that there were that many guys in FA that were going to drastically change where the team was headed one way or the other, especially not for what the cost was likely to be.

[fredtoast]

(04-07-2019, 10:56 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Normally I agree with you, but I don't think anyone wanted a mega signing. A mid-tier signing or two would've done just fine. A true upgrade. Tbh, I'm not sure how much we truly upgraded this roster. BW Webb? John Miller? I guess those were minor upgrades to Redmond and whoever our 4th CB was. When you're coming off of 3 straight losing seasons, I don't think that's getting it. 

I sense no urgency with those signings. Feels like a typical ho-hum day at the office.

I agree on the cuts though. Props to them for doing the right thing. That's something we couldn't count on in the past.

Leading up to free agency I kept saying that we should not panic if the Bengals don't make any big name signings.  I kept pointing to 2011 when we rebuilt our defense by signing three new starters in free agency.  They were not top tier players, but they were all solid starters with some history of solid production.  They were not the top guys, but they were not the bottom either.

However this year's free agency was seriously one of the weakest ever.  Webb could not even make an NFL roster in 2017.  Miller was a starter but a bottom tier starter.  Hart was a guy we were wanting to replace.  These guys are not even "has beens" that we hope to get another year out of or guys coming off of injuries.  These guys are "never beens".

[t3r3e3]

In the last 10 years, the Bengals have done a good to excellent job of drafting CB’s and S’s. While many of the key players have been high picks, the team has done a good job of identifying talent. It’s hard to fault the team on secondary players. They’ve even added shrewd, quality FA signees in the secondary.

[sandwedge]

(04-07-2019, 10:19 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Great point, a lot of little changes can add up to a lot of improvement.  Many fail to acknowledge all of the little improvements, simply because they didn't see the one, huge, monumental signing or acquisition that made big, public news.  A big, splashy signing is great, when your roster has only one hole to fill in order to be a serious contender.  But, when there are at least a half dozen positions that need improvement, you need to upgrade the overall quality of your roster stock, before adding a marquis player will make that big impact on wins.

Pretty spot on Sunset!  

[Shake n Blake]

(04-07-2019, 01:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Leading up to free agency I kept saying that we should not panic if the Bengals don't make any big name signings.  I kept pointing to 2011 when we rebuilt our defense by signing three new starters in free agency.  They were not top tier players, but they were all solid starters with some history of solid production.  They were not the top guys, but they were not the bottom either.

However this year's free agency was seriously one of the weakest ever.  Webb could not even make an NFL roster in 2017.  Miller was a starter but a bottom tier starter.  Hart was a guy we were wanting to replace.  These guys are not even "has beens" that we hope to get another year out of or guys coming off of injuries.  These guys are "never beens".

Agreed. I've been saying all off-season that I'd withhold judgement on the coaching hires until the staff was complete. Then even after that, I said a good free agency could make up for the lackluster staff. Instead we had possibly our worst free agency in many years IMO.

I loved the Zac Taylor hire, but it's been all downhill from there. We do have the draft, but so does every other team.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-08-2019, 12:51 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: In the last 10 years, the Bengals have done a good to excellent job of drafting CB’s and S’s. While many of the key players have been high picks, the team has done a good job of identifying talent. It’s hard to fault the team on secondary players. They’ve even added shrewd, quality FA signees in the secondary.

Might be my favorite answer given in this thread. And I obviously completely agree.

[BengalsRocker]

(04-08-2019, 05:03 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Agreed. I've been saying all off-season that I'd withhold judgement on the coaching hires until the staff was complete. Then even after that, I said a good free agency could make up for the lackluster staff. Instead we had possibly our worst free agency in many years IMO.

I loved the Zac Taylor hire, but it's been all downhill from there. We do have the draft, but so does every other team.

Yep gotta not only fill gaps but improve in the off-season FA.

Miller would be an improvement over remaining roster depth guys I suppose.

We can all hope that Glen and Brown recover from injuries and bring what they should have brought last season.

You can't just soley go by what they did as healthy athletes on another team 2 seasons ago and expect exact same results.

As you said the draft pool might bring a few players who'll contribute but so will it to the teams they'll have to compete with.

The difference is those teams might be just supplementing the consistent talent they've already put in place.

[Destro]

They haven't changed the helmet.