Who Are Your Not In Hall Of Fame All- Time All Stars ?

[kevin]

Give this some thought besides just saying Pete. There are some great baseball names out there and some were Reds. I will have to look at who's in or not. Is Steve Garvey or Tommy John still not in. Buck O'Neil is a must on my team. Reds Dave Concepcion and Vada Pinson stand out. There were some very good Detroit catchers not in. Are Freehan or Parrish still not in. Ted Simmons. So many names such as Rusty Staub, Nettles at third base, Luis Tiant. You can put together one heck of a not in HOF team and not use steroid or gamblers. If you go steroid, you should let in Pete and Shoeless Joe.

Can any of you put together a 25 man not in HOF team and not using current players or players from last 5 years ? Hint : There are great relievers to be had. You can build a Super Bullpen. There are some All-Stars and World Series stars at all positions to build a team with. Great players from Negro Leagues can be used because had it not been for Jackie Robinson, 6 of the Reds Great 8 would have been in the Negro League.

[fredtoast]

For years I ranted about Vlad Guerrero being one of the most underrated players of all time, but then he was elected to the HOF in 2018.

[kevin]

It's really hard for me as a Fan to say who cheated in baseball on steroids, gambling, who did drugs, who was a woman beater and all other sorts of things. If I don't try to figure out who the bad guys are and who the good guys are, the lists become easier. As a Fan, I don't know who the good guys are.

One way is to go on All-Star games, but then that is not fair to a Vada Pinson who played in same era with Mays, Aaron, Frank Robinson, Brock, Clemente and others. I also think of Cincy Bengal Ken Riley who was NEVER in a Pro Bowl, so maybe you can't go too much on those All-Star games.

There are a lot of good players. I really don't know who took steroids and who did but never got caught. Who gambled but who did and never got caught. Who thew grease balls and spit balls. Who corked their bats. Yogi Berra would catch the ball and then against his catching gear put a cut in the ball for his pitchers to use, is that cheating ? I look at Bonds numbers, and the guy would have put up good numbers anyway. Plus, I don't know who didn't cheat in some way, even in old days before testing.

I think I may just make a 25 man team and not worry who cheated and such, and how many just never got caught.

Again, if any of you come up with a 25 man team of not in Hall of Fame after 5 years, it would be fun to see the names you came up with.

*** Correction. Make that 10 years retired and not in HOF.

[grampahol]

My memory of names just isn't good enough for this exercise so I'll pass and semi follow this thread for future references..  

[kevin]

OK, here is a list. I used a combo of runs scored in a career by All-Stars of 5 years or more on every day players. On Starting Pitchers I used innings pitched and still a good ERA, but no dead ball era before Babe Ruth. Live ball only. 2 closing pitchers with a lot of saves and good ERA. 2 middle relievers with a lot of games going more than 1 inning and good ERA's. It left off some players I wanted and added some surprise names. So here it is.

Starting Pitchers
1. Roger Clemens
2. Tommy John
3. JIM KAAT
4. Frank Tanana
5. Dennis Martinez

6. Jerry Koosman and now Long Reliever

Middle Relievers
1. Lindy McDaniel
2, Gene Garber

Closing Pitchers
1. JOHN FRANCO
2. John Wetteland

Catchers
1. Ted Simmons
2. Bill Freehan

First Base
1. Steve Garvey

Second Base
1. Lou Whitaker
2. Davey Lopes

Shortstop
1. DAVE CONCEPCION
2. Bert Campaneris

Third Base
1. Stan Hack
2. Graig Nettles

Outfield
LF- 1. Barry Bonds
CF- 1. Kenny Lofton
CF-2. VADA PINSON
RF-1. Dwight Evans
RF-2. DAVE PARKER

25th Man All Star at 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Left, Right
1. PETE ROSE

Manager
Billy Martin

[grampahol]

So....just because you're going to just delete all steroid use by these guys? Sosa wouldn't have been all that without them and I have to wonder about Clemens as well.. That said it's tough to even imagine who was or wasn't using from the 50s-2000's. Not everyone made the headlines and steroids had been around for awhile before making a blip in the headlines..  

[fredtoast]

Got to have Dale Murphy in the outfield

2 X League MVP
7 X All Star
5 X Gold Glove

[*bengalfan74*]

Dave Parker

[grampahol]

If Bonds, Clemens and Sosa get on this team then it would be criminally negligent to leave out Peter Edward Rose. While you're at is Rafiel Palmera should be on it too. Don't forget Munson and Schilling as well..

[samhain]

(06-16-2019, 04:04 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Dave Parker

Man, I entered this thread to post this.  Favorite all-time Red and a great player in his time.  

[kevin]

(06-16-2019, 08:07 PM)grampahol Wrote: If Bonds, Clemens and Sosa get on this team then it would be criminally negligent to leave out Peter Edward Rose. While you're at is Rafiel Palmera should be on it too. Don't forget Munson and Schilling as well..

Pete Rose is on the team.  I list him as 25th man, but only because I knew he was on and I saved him for the end because he can play any position.  That's why I only have one First Baseman to keep it to 25 players. 

I looked at Palmero and I could have made a mistake, but it looked like on over 5 All Star Games and career runs scored it was Todd Helton.  You have to admit, Todd Helton could flat out hit. 

To those mad that I'm using the steroid guys. I said I tried not using them and I could not make a list. I discovered I don't know who used them and who just never got caught. I'm not a sports media person and truth be known, those guy's don't know either.

I wanted Concepcion and Nettles and Pinson and others.  I just came up with a system of how to pick them and let the chips fall where they may. There is one flaw and that is I don't have a true CF.  I could take off Sosa and add a true CF and that person could be Vada Pinson or Al Oliver, maybe. 

I like the names you people are coming up with, and going into 4th of July and All-Star Game it was what I was hoping for.  That some of you would come up with names.  I left off Steve Garvey, which killed me.  Tony Oliva another.  Schilling and Tiant.  Nobody will mention Ken Boyer at Third, but he was good. Sam McDowell was tough. I left off 2 great catchers in Freehan and Parrish. My 6 starting pitchers do have the most Quality Innings not to be in HOF.

So 25 names leaves out many names.  Keep adding names to this.  I want to hear your players. 

[kevin]

OK, adjustments to my list

I needed to divide up LF, CF, RF

I also had players that just became eligible for HOF, so they aren't passed over yet

So added are Freehan, Garvey, Lopes, Concepcion, Campaneris, Nettles, Pinson and Dwight Evans. These All-Stars with many career runs scored also bring Gold Glove Defense. These 8 we can say have been passed over to this point. It's too soon on the 8 that I deleted. Also must drop Wagner and add Wetteland if going 10 years back.

I adjusted it in my 25 man team post. No change to the pitchers.

Again, keep posting names of players you like because good to hear all the players you are coming up with. Dave Parker over Dwight Evans, I could see that, both were pretty good. OK, if I drop Sosa and add Parker this team looks more steroid clean than my first list. I'll do that. Plus, he was a Red for a few years.