Forced Fumbles by our D, or lack thereof

[*bengalfan74*]

It's no big secret our D has been average at best to poor the past few seasons coming in dead last this past season, 15th in 2017, and 16th in 2016 but that as with all stats is only part of the story.

We've been in the very bottom of the league in forced fumbles these last three seasons and I want to know why this D can't force any fumbles ? In 2016 we were tied for last in the league only forcing 3 fumbles. In 2017 we were alone in last place with 3 forced fumbles. Last season we 25th with 6 takeaways from fumbles.

I know some times teams just get lucky and the ball just bounces their way, QB/RB exchange is muffed a WR uses his own knee to fumble or whatever ? But still it's telling in my opinion we rank so low in takeaways via fumble season after season.

We've been +3 -9 and +1 in turnover ratio over the last three seasons and our lack of recovered fumbles is a big part of that even with our CB's that can't catch.

So what gives with the fumbles ? Is it poor tackling form ? Is it not being aggressive enough trying to force fumbles ? Just having poor LBers ? Just playing to soft on defense overall ?

It's just a little weird how few fumbles this team forces.

[NKURyan]

I think it's mostly just a really weird unlucky streak as much as anything. I remember reading something awhile back about how statistically improbable it was too have such a bad run of fumble recoveries, but no idea where.

Seems like even when the ball gets put on the ground it always bounces back to the offense, too. Bad luck.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Forcing a fumble is a deliberate action — and the Cincinnati Bengals haven’t done this effectively since Mike Zimmer was the defensive coordinator. I hate the Steelers’ guts but look at their defensive players always trying to punch the ball loose. I hope Lou Anarumo teaches this!

[impactplaya]

I think a defense at certain times has more a probable chance of forcing fumbles when they have a lead.
if the Bengals are playing from behind and their defense trying to get the ball back.....you can bet that offense
is securing the ball with runs off tackle.
QB isnt takng that 7 step.drop...hes rolling out....out of pocket on a high % throw to.a TE in the flat.
How many times have we seen in the past when the Bengals are driving to tie a game or take a lead under 4 minutes in a game and Dalton is facing some heavy pressure.....he climbs pocket....ball is tomahawked out by a Terrell Suggs or whoever.
I noticed our DBs and LBers have issues stripping WRs of the ball in open field.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-08-2019, 11:25 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Forcing a fumble is a deliberate action — and the Cincinnati Bengals haven’t done this effectively since Mike Zimmer was the defensive coordinator.  I hate the Steelers’ guts but look at their defensive players always trying to punch the ball loose. I hope Lou Anarumo teaches this!

Me to, I think this D overall has been way to passive these last few seasons.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-08-2019, 10:18 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I think it's mostly just a really weird unlucky streak as much as anything. I remember reading something awhile back about how statistically improbable it was too have such a bad run of fumble recoveries, but no idea where.

Seems like even when the ball gets put on the ground it always bounces back to the offense, too. Bad luck.

I think bad luck is a part of it but only a small part.

(05-08-2019, 11:31 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think a defense at certain times has more a probable chance of forcing fumbles when they have a lead. 
if the Bengals are playing from behind and their defense trying to get the ball back.....you can bet that offense
is securing the ball with runs off tackle.
QB isnt takng that 7 step.drop...hes rolling out....out of pocket on a high % throw to.a TE in the flat.
How many times have we seen in the past when the Bengals are driving to tie a game or take a lead  under 4 minutes in a game and Dalton is facing some heavy pressure.....he climbs pocket....ball is tomahawked out by a Terrell Suggs or whoever.
I noticed our DBs and LBers have issues stripping WRs of the ball in open field.

I can see that, you just play a little loser with the lead and take some chances.

[impactplaya]

(05-09-2019, 12:06 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think bad luck is a part of it but only a small part.


I can see that, you just play a little loser with the lead and take some chances.

remember in the 1st game vs the Ravens...Flacco was flushed out of the pocket to his right...he was trying to.make a play....who.tomahawked that ball out of his hands to secure the victory?
then game 2....Gus Edwards is just eating up clock...2 hands on the ball secure? 
game 1 win game 2 loss

[XsandOs]

(05-09-2019, 12:06 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think bad luck is a part of it but only a small part.


I can see that, you just play a little loser with the lead and take some chances.

Vast majority of fumbles come from rush, sacks and catch plays - in that order.

We lack pure speed rushers who can strip sack a QB bending around the edge. Our most consistent sack producer comes up the middle, so the blind side sacks are not as common.

On catch plays, zone schemes produce more fumbles, because you stay above the action and keep the play in front of you and react. That works best when you are working with a lead - as a poster has stated here already. Unfortunately, that has not been the case for us the last three years.

On run, you need LBs who thump. Enough said there.

[THE PISTONS]

You have to actually tackle a guy to force a fumble. We didn't do much of that last year!

I don't know if there is a statistic to bear this out, but I watch A LOT of football and our defenses seem below average in actually finishing tackles to me.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(05-09-2019, 12:35 AM)XsandOs Wrote: Vast majority of fumbles come from rush, sacks and catch plays - in that order.

We lack pure speed rushers who can strip sack a QB bending around the edge. Our most consistent sack producer comes up the middle, so the blind side sacks are not as common.

On catch plays, zone schemes produce more fumbles, because you stay above the action and keep the play in front of you and react. That works best when you are working with a lead - as a poster has stated here already. Unfortunately, that has not been the case for us the last three years.

On run, you need LBs who thump. Enough said there.

Not true; our most consistent sack producer comes off the left side and, unsurprisingly, has led the team in forced fumbles every year since 2012 (save for 2015, when MJ beat Dunlap 3:2).

I do agree about the blindside comment and that's hopefully what Lawson will add this year and going forward.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-09-2019, 09:29 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You have to actually tackle a guy to force a fumble. We didn't do much of that last year!

I don't know if there is a statistic to bear this out, but I watch A LOT of football and our defenses seem below average in actually finishing tackles to me.

I believe our overall poor tackling is a contributor. Bad angles, arm tackles, lowering the head.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-09-2019, 09:35 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Not true; our most consistent sack producer comes off the left side and, unsurprisingly, has led the team in forced fumbles every year since 2012 (save for 2015, when MJ beat Dunlap 3:2).

I do agree about the blindside comment and that's hopefully what Lawson will add this year and going forward.

Lets hope Lawson or somebody can get some turnovers. I haven't done the math but we're probably around -2 in the turnover ratio these past few seasons. We need the D to step it up and turnovers are huge ! As is getting stops on 3rd down but that's another thread.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-09-2019, 10:46 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Lets hope Lawson or somebody can get some turnovers. I haven't done the math but we're probably around -2 in the turnover ratio these past few seasons. We need the D to step it up and turnovers are huge ! As is getting stops on 3rd down but that's another thread.

With the rule changes in favor of high powered offenses, turnovers are even more premium.

I do think that investing in offense is more important now though too because of these...as you're not going to stop high powered offenses. You need to outscore them.

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2019, 10:11 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It's no big secret our D has been average at best to poor the past few seasons coming in dead last this past season, 15th in 2017, and 16th in 2016 but that as with all stats is only part of the story.

You mean like how we were 8th in scoring defense in 2016?  But based on your history I am not surprised you consider that "average at best".

I agree the Bengals have been ranked very low in forced fumbles the last few years, but when a team goes for the strip every time the end up allowing more broken tackles.

However last year we could not force fumbles OR TACKLE.  That is a big problem.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 10:57 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I do think that investing in offense is more important now though too because of these...as you're not going to stop high powered offenses. You need to outscore them.

Guess you did not watch the Super Bowl.

[packerbacker]

It could be worse guys. You could be a Packer fan the last 2 seasons. We couldn't even win 8 games the past 2 years.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 12:06 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think bad luck is a part of it but only a small part.

Forcing fumbles is a skill, recovering fumbles is just luck.  Statistical analysis has shown this over time.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-09-2019, 11:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean like how we were 8th in scoring defense in 2016?  But based on your history I am not surprised you consider that "average at best".

I agree the Bengals have been ranked very low in forced fumbles the last few years, but when a team goes for the strip every time the end up allowing more broken tackles.

However last year we could not force fumbles OR TACKLE.  That is a big problem.

Using proper form tackling would help both problems I'd bet. Keep your head up and put your helmet on the ball.

[sandwedge]

As others have mentioned, tackling. There seems to be more arm tackling going on than before. Maybe it's the new rule and players are afraid to put a helmet on the ball? Whatever it is, hopefully both the tackling and forced fumbles get better.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 11:22 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Using proper form tackling would help both problems I'd bet. Keep your head up and put your helmet on the ball.

Putting your helmet on the ball is not always proper form tackling.  You tackle the player, not the ball.