Mixon on rehab field

[NKURyan]

(05-20-2019, 10:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So much for ZT's genius taking Dalton back to 2015 form, eh?

They ran the ball 30 times a game in 2015 (with a pretty mediocre running game, no less), so the two aren't exactly independent of each other.

Or maybe we should go back to 2017 and let the running backs take turns each series? That worked so well. 

[*Nately120*]

(05-21-2019, 11:54 AM)NKURyan Wrote: They ran the ball 30 times a game in 2015 (with a pretty mediocre running game, no less), so the two aren't exactly independent of each other.

Or maybe we should go back to 2017 and let the running backs take turns each series? That worked so well. 

The whole "run Mixon" thing was cited as a flaw in Marvin's gameplan, so I'm just wondering what happens if ZT doesn't run Mixon 25+ times per game, is all.  We finally have a HC who knows how to do offense and we have a rejuvenated Dalton throwing to Green/Boyd/Ross used right/3 tight ends/multiple catch-n-run RBs AND we can not run Mixon into the ground ala Gurley and the Rams.

I'll admit I'm a bit sensitive to the whole "Run da damn baaaawllll" stuff because for years Steeler fans would complain they were having Ben throw to a slew of WRs he made great rather than running Rashaard Mendenhall up the gut over and over again.  They'd always go crazy when Ben would complete yet another damn TD pass from 30 yards out, though.  The liars.


Side note - Bonus points for 2015 being the season where the battle cry going in was "GIVE HILL THE BAWAWWWWLL!!!" and going out was "Why did we give Hill the ball!?"  Not saying Mixon is Hill, just pointing that out.

[NKURyan]

(05-21-2019, 12:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The whole "run Mixon" thing was cited as a flaw in Marvin's gameplan, so I'm just wondering what happens if ZT doesn't run Mixon 25+ times per game, is all.  We finally have a HC who knows how to do offense and we have a rejuvenated Dalton throwing to Green/Boyd/Ross used right/3 tight ends/multiple catch-n-run RBs AND we can not run Mixon into the ground ala Gurley and the Rams.

I'll admit I'm a bit sensitive to the whole "Run da damn baaaawllll" stuff because for years Steeler fans would complain they were having Ben throw to a slew of WRs he made great rather than running Rashaard Mendenhall up the gut over and over again.  They'd always go crazy when Ben would complete yet another damn TD pass from 30 yards out, though.  The liars.


Side note - Bonus points for 2015 being the season where the battle cry going in was "GIVE HILL THE BAWAWWWWLL!!!" and going out was "Why did we give Hill the ball!?"  Not saying Mixon is Hill, just pointing that out.

Considering how good Jeremy Hill was in 2014, fans were right to call for him to get the ball. He ended up not being up the challenge. Hindsight's great and all, but they were right to run the ball.

You can latch on to Todd Gurley breaking down last season if you want, I guess. He only had two games all season with 25+ carries last year, and only one the season before. It's not like they ran him into the ground near as much as you seem to think they did. Ezekiel Elliot had more than Gurley and he didn't break down at all. Hell, a 33 year old Adrian Peterson had more games with 25+ carries than Gurley did. Mixon's younger than Gurley and has less miles on the tires anyways considering he didn't play for a full year in college. I think he can handle it.

They can afford to ride Joe harder than they did last year - especially earlier in the season - because they don't there's not going to be any important games later on to worry about. It'd help Andy Dalton, it's help the receivers, and it would help a defense coming off a historically bad season. If you want to cut his carries down, do it in late November/early December when you've hopefully given yourself a reason too, but if the Bengals go into next season saying "well we need to limit Mixon's touches for when we need him in January" they're nuts.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2019, 05:31 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Considering how good Jeremy Hill was in 2014, fans were right to call for him to get the ball. He ended up not being up the challenge. Hindsight's great and all, but they were right to run the ball.

You can latch on to Todd Gurley breaking down last season if you want, I guess. He only had two games all season with 25+ carries last year, and only one the season before. It's not like they ran him into the ground near as much as you seem to think they did. Ezekiel Elliot had more than Gurley and he didn't break down at all. Hell, a 33 year old Adrian Peterson had more games with 25+ carries than Gurley did. Mixon's younger than Gurley and has less miles on the tires anyways considering he didn't play for a full year in college. I think he can handle it.

They can afford to ride Joe harder than they did last year - especially earlier in the season - because they don't there's not going to be any important games later on to worry about. It'd help Andy Dalton, it's help the receivers, and it would help a defense coming off a historically bad season. If you want to cut his carries down, do it in late November/early December when you've hopefully given yourself a reason too, but if the Bengals go into next season saying "well we need to limit Mixon's touches for when we need him in January" they're nuts.

Some great points, didn't know that Gurley only had two games all season with 25+ carries, but he was also very important in the passing game. So he wasn't just a runner out there. Good point about Gurley being used a lot more than Mixon was in college too. Guess we could keep feeding him the ball early but honestly i want to see Mixon more being targeted in the passing game.

He has such great hands and is such a talent after the catch, was a shame he didn't get used that much in this aspect last season.

[fredtoast]

It is smarter to get fewer carries every game than 25 a game for the first half and nothing in the second.

Mixon has never played a full 16 game schedule.  They better limit his workload throughout the entire season.

Averaging 20 carries a game for a full season is rare these days.  Only 4 RBs have had 320 carries in a season over the last 6 years (Bell '17, Elliott '16, Peterson '15, DeMarco Murray '14).  In fact only 6 RBs have had as many as 300 carries in the last 5 seasons.

Given the fact that Mixon has gone down with injury each of his first two seasons, I'd like to see them keep him at about 17-18 carries a game.

[HarleyDog]

(05-21-2019, 05:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: He has such great hands and is such a talent after the catch, was a shame he didn't get used that much in this aspect last season.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Thats what i am talkin' about Harley.

Mixon is a crazy talent...

[NKURyan]

(05-21-2019, 06:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is smarter to get fewer carries every game than 25 a game for the first half and nothing in the second.

Mixon has never played a full 16 game schedule.  They better limit his workload throughout the entire season.

Averaging 20 carries a game for a full season is rare these days.  Only 4 RBs have had 320 carries in a season over the last 6 years (Bell '17, Elliott '16, Peterson '15, DeMarco Murray '14).  In fact only 6 RBs have had as many as 300 carries in the last 5 seasons.

Given the fact that Mixon has gone down with injury each of his first two seasons, I'd like to see them keep him at about 17-18 carries a game.

In today's NFL, it's pretty stupid to give a huge contract to a RB because a good chunk of the time they'll break down on you and RB isn't a high value position anyways. The Rams put themselves in the position where they have to care about stuff like this by giving him a huge contract... we don't have that issue. Ride his ass into the ground for the next few years and then draft his replacement in the 2nd or 3rd round. Maybe that's cold, but I don't care.

If he gets hurt at some point during the season (which could just as easily happen on 1 carry let alone 20) you've got Gio ready to go, plus two rookies a lot of people are high on. Take your chances.

It honestly reminds me of how the Washington Nationals treated Stephen Strasburg a few years ago - "yeah we're having a pretty good year, but we need to shut him down early so we can use him when we're *really* good in the future". I don't think they've done squat since.

[Circleville Guy]

That’s a lot of big names but at least it’s very early and of course the Bengals have a fantastic medical staff.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2019, 09:25 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: That’s a lot of big names but at least it’s very early and of course the Bengals have a fantastic medical staff.

I think we have a new medical staff...

[fredtoast]

(05-21-2019, 08:10 PM)NKURyan Wrote: If he gets hurt at some point during the season (which could just as easily happen on 1 carry let alone 20)

Actually studies have shown that RBs are much more likely to get injured with a high use rate.  And they will be less effective the next year.

I don't understand how people could say Mixon is an elite talent on one hand and then claim he can be replaced by anyone.

If he really is elite then we need to use him smartly so that we have him when we need him.  But if he is just average and can be replaced by anyone I don't know why everyone is so eager for him to carry the ball so much.

[NKURyan]

(05-22-2019, 08:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually studies have shown that RBs are much more likely to get injured with a high use rate.  And they will be less effective the next year.

I don't understand how people could say Mixon is an elite talent on one hand and then claim he can be replaced by anyone.

If he really is elite then we need to use him smartly so that we have him when we need him.  But if he is just average and can be replaced by anyone I don't know why everyone is so eager for him to carry the ball so much.

Where did I say he was an elite talent?

You do realize a guy can be somewhere in between "elite" and "average", right?

Mixon went over 100 yard games 3 of his last 4 games last December, while the games he missed with injury were the third and fourth of the season. His yards per attempt were better in the latter half of the year. He looks like the type of runner that gets stronger as the year progresses, who takes advantage of tiring defenders. They don't need to wrap in bubble wrap and pray that they'll get to take it off in postseason games they may never get to.

I'm guessing those (uncited) studies of yours would show that ALL player injuries rates go up with increased use, so no surprise there.

[fredtoast]

(05-22-2019, 09:26 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Where did I say he was an elite talent?

When you said he was our ONLY hope to be in the playoffs.

[NKURyan]

(05-23-2019, 01:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When you said he was our ONLY hope to be in the playoffs.

I didn't say that anywhere in this thread. I did say they need to run the ball more if they want to make the playoffs, but you're just putting words into people's mouths as you're prone to do.

I think that Mixon is a very good back (which isn't the same as being elite). I think if they use him more they have a much better chance of having success than if they don't. Not that difficult to follow, Fred.

[fredtoast]

(05-23-2019, 01:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You said he was our ONLY hope to be in the playoffs.

(05-23-2019, 01:58 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I didn't say that anywhere in this thread.

(05-21-2019, 05:31 PM)NKURyan Wrote: They can afford to ride Joe harder than they did last year - especially earlier in the season - because they don't there's not going to be any important games later on to worry about. 

[NKURyan]

(05-23-2019, 03:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote:

Nice reading comprehension there, Fred. I say "they can afford to ride Joe harder than they did last season... because if they don't there's not going to be any important game later on" - literally just "they need to run the ball more if they want to be playing for something late in the year" and some how you interpret that as "Joe Mixon is elite" and "the ONLY way they can get into the playoffs".

If you don't see how what I typed doesn't line up with what you're reading, I can't help ya man. There's a good, fairly easy argument for you to make in response to what I said if you want to have an actual discussion, but good Lord you whiffed hard by going straight towards blatant exaggeration. You do you, though, it seems to work for you so well around here.

[fredtoast]

(05-23-2019, 05:43 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Nice reading comprehension there, Fred. I say "they can afford to ride Joe harder than they did last season... because if they don't there's not going to be any important game later on" - literally just "they need to run the ball more if they want to be playing for something late in the year" and some how you interpret that as "Joe Mixon is elite" and "the ONLY way they can get into the playoffs".

Apparently you don't know the meaning of "literally".

Saying that if they don't run Mixon more than they did last year they won't make the playoffs LITERALLY means that Mixon is their only hope for the playoffs.

[NKURyan]

(05-23-2019, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Apparently you don't know the meaning of "literally".

Saying that if they don't run Mixon more than they did last year they won't make the playoffs LITERALLY means that Mixon is their only hope for the playoffs.

No it doesn't lol. Saying "if they don't run Mixon more than they did last year they won't make the playoffs" does not even remotely mean the same thing as "Mixon is their only hope for the playoffs". You pulled those two bolded words out of your ass, I'm not letting you pin them on me.

You know which games running backs tend to get the most carries? When their teams are playing with a lead, or at least within one score of the lead. In 4 of the 5 games Joe went over 20 carries last year, they won (the only one they didn't was against LA when they were - gasp - within one TD the whole game). If the Bengals are getting blown out next season like they did against the Chiefs and Saints last year, they're not going to go anywhere. If, however, Joe's getting more carries in games because they can actual afford to use him instead of trying to pass their way back into a game where they're down by 3 or more TDs I'd say that bodes pretty well for the Bengals record.

If the Bengals defense finished 32nd in the league again, it's probably not going to matter what Joe Mixon does. If Andy Dalton gets hurt again, it's probably not going to matter what Joe Mixon does (unless they literally put themselves on his back and go nuts in the running game, I guess). If they lose their top three receiving threats again, it's probably not going to matter what Joe Mixon does. Hell, if Andy channels Peyton Manning and throws for 55 TDs it's probably not going to matter what Joe Mixon does. But if none of these things happen (which at this point I'd say is a pretty decent assumption), and Joe Mixon's carries go up, that's a good sign as to how they are doing because that means they were able to use him unlike in certain games last year. I never said it's there only hope, but keep pretending if it makes you feel better. Do you really need all of this stuff spelled out for you to keep from jumping to stupid conclusions, or can you do what a normal person does and actually understand that not every statement is meant as an absolute from the get go?

[Bengalitis]

(05-21-2019, 06:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thats what i am talkin' about Harley.

Mixon is a crazy talent...

Mixon is an upgrade to Gio, but from the same mold because he can churn the ball North up the defense's throat.   :andy:

[*Nately120*]

(05-23-2019, 09:03 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Mixon is an upgrade to Gio, but from the same mold because he can churn the ball North up the defense's throat.   :andy:

He's only going to go up their throats if he's already been ingested by them...and I can't even picture what the football equivalent of being ingested by the other team is.