Posts: 14,152
Threads: 501
Reputation:
106706
Joined: May 2015
(06-10-2019, 10:11 AM)Wyche Wrote: Agreed. To me, what it all boils down to, is the competency of the new staff. I've maintained for years that the coaching staff was holding the team back, and a detriment in critical situations. So, if this staff is indeed good, then I see no reason why this team can't contend. That simple.
Are you saying that despite having 16 years to learn better clock management and end-of-half strategies that this (previous) coaching staff isn't competent? I would agree. 
I just want my team to be innovative and energetic. We have been far from that under Marv...especially in big games.
Posts: 28,759
Threads: 40
Reputation:
126744
Joined: May 2015
Location: Parts Unknown, PA
(06-10-2019, 08:24 AM)Sled21 Wrote: but how many good QB's have the Brown's brought into the Factory of Sadness and destroyed their careers.....
Um...none? An argument could be made that Tim Couch could have done much better had he not been drafted by an expansion team Browns in 1999 and Brady Quinn wasn't hopeless, but other than that the Browns have started a total of 0 QBs that were good. Look at this list, you have a bunch of crappy vets, later round picks, and/or guys they took in the bottom half of round 1 who had massive red flags (unless you really think Manziel would have been a good QB if any other team picked him). How many QBs on this list were good but ruined by the Browns in your opinion? Again, I don't think Baker Mayfield is Jeebus on toast, but I don't look at him and see another Spergon Wynn or Jake Delhomme any more than Palmer/Dalton was just another David Klingler or Scott Mitchell.
1999 Tim Couch (14) / Ty Detmer (2)
2000 Doug Pederson (8) / Tim Couch (7) / Spergon Wynn (1)
2001 Tim Couch (16)
2002 Tim Couch (14) / Kelly Holcomb (2)
2003 Kelly Holcomb (8) / Tim Couch (8)
2004 Jeff Garcia (10) / Luke McCown (4) / Kelly Holcomb (2)
2005 Trent Dilfer (11) / Charlie Frye (5)
2006 Charlie Frye (13) / Derek Anderson (3)
2007 Derek Anderson (15) / Charlie Frye (1)
2008 Derek Anderson (9) / Brady Quinn (3) / Ken Dorsey (3) / Bruce Gradkowski (1)
2009 Brady Quinn (9) / Derek Anderson (7)
2010 Colt McCoy (8) / Jake Delhomme (4) / Seneca Wallace (4)
2011 Colt McCoy (13) / Seneca Wallace (3)
2012 Brandon Weeden (15) / Thad Lewis (1)
2013 Jason Campbell (8) / Brandon Weeden (5) / Brian Hoyer (3)
2014 Brian Hoyer (13) / Johnny Manziel (2) / Connor Shaw (1)
2015 Josh McCown (8) / Johnny Manziel (6) / Austin Davis (2)
2016 Cody Kessler (8) / Robert Griffin III (5) / Josh McCown (3)
2017 DeShone Kizer (15) / Kevin Hogan (1)
2018 Baker Mayfield (13) / Tyrod Taylor (3)
But seriously, we've been pretty set at QB for the past 15+ years. Which QBs on the Browns list would you have traded straight-up for Palmer or Dalton?
Posts: 16,714
Threads: 417
Reputation:
95713
Joined: May 2015
(06-10-2019, 10:37 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Um...none? An argument could be made that Tim Couch could have done much better had he not been drafted by an expansion team Browns in 1999 and Brady Quinn wasn't hopeless, but other than that the Browns have started a total of 0 QBs that were good. Look at this list, you have a bunch of crappy vets, later round picks, and/or guys they took in the bottom half of round 1 who had massive red flags (unless you really think Manziel would have been a good QB if any other team picked him). How many QBs on this list were good but ruined by the Browns in your opinion? Again, I don't think Baker Mayfield is Jeebus on toast, but I don't look at him and see another Spergon Wynn or Jake Delhomme any more than Palmer/Dalton was just another David Klingler or Scott Mitchell.
1999 Tim Couch (14) / Ty Detmer (2)
2000 Doug Pederson (8) / Tim Couch (7) / Spergon Wynn (1)
2001 Tim Couch (16)
2002 Tim Couch (14) / Kelly Holcomb (2)
2003 Kelly Holcomb (8) / Tim Couch (8)
2004 Jeff Garcia (10) / Luke McCown (4) / Kelly Holcomb (2)
2005 Trent Dilfer (11) / Charlie Frye (5)
2006 Charlie Frye (13) / Derek Anderson (3)
2007 Derek Anderson (15) / Charlie Frye (1)
2008 Derek Anderson (9) / Brady Quinn (3) / Ken Dorsey (3) / Bruce Gradkowski (1)
2009 Brady Quinn (9) / Derek Anderson (7)
2010 Colt McCoy (8) / Jake Delhomme (4) / Seneca Wallace (4)
2011 Colt McCoy (13) / Seneca Wallace (3)
2012 Brandon Weeden (15) / Thad Lewis (1)
2013 Jason Campbell (8) / Brandon Weeden (5) / Brian Hoyer (3)
2014 Brian Hoyer (13) / Johnny Manziel (2) / Connor Shaw (1)
2015 Josh McCown (8) / Johnny Manziel (6) / Austin Davis (2)
2016 Cody Kessler (8) / Robert Griffin III (5) / Josh McCown (3)
2017 DeShone Kizer (15) / Kevin Hogan (1)
2018 Baker Mayfield (13) / Tyrod Taylor (3)
But seriously, we've been pretty set at QB for the past 15+ years. Which QBs on the Browns list would you have traded straight-up for Palmer or Dalton?
I'm not saying I would trade any of them for Palmer/Dalton. What I'm saying is we will never know what those on the list of shame might have become if they played anywhere but Cleveland. Cleveland is where Quarterback careers go to die....
Posts: 16,402
Threads: 151
Reputation:
61592
Joined: May 2015
(06-10-2019, 12:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm not saying I would trade any of them for Palmer/Dalton. What I'm saying is we will never know what those on the list of shame might have become if they played anywhere but Cleveland. Cleveland is where Quarterback careers go to die....
that's the case in the nfl every year....
Top players go to bad teams and sometimes that's enough to wash them out of the league.
Posts: 28,759
Threads: 40
Reputation:
126744
Joined: May 2015
Location: Parts Unknown, PA
(06-10-2019, 12:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm not saying I would trade any of them for Palmer/Dalton. What I'm saying is we will never know what those on the list of shame might have become if they played anywhere but Cleveland. Cleveland is where Quarterback careers go to die....
Odds are one of those 30 guys would have done something somewhere else. Many of them either were out of Cleveland quickly or only went there for one last paycheck.
Remember how many bad QBs the Steelers had before Ben? He was supposed to Bubbie Brister 2.0 wasn't he?
I'm just not confident Mayfield will be no concern for us because Spergon Wynn and Charlie Frye stunk, is all.
Posts: 14,281
Threads: 294
Reputation:
31560
Joined: May 2015
What's really pretty amazing is the few QB's the Bengals have had to go through in the 21st century. For a team with so many problems in just about every category possible QB hasn't been one of them..
That said.. I'm still wondering why the NFL still uses old jargon like training/mini camps.. They really don't camp out anywhere. It's not as if they all bring their little pup tents and cook meals on their little mess kits then go hiking in the woods and take a dip in the Ohio river after practice.. I think they should have to pitch tents and actually camp out every season.. Let's see who can build a fire using just a piece of flint and steel and who can't find kindling wood on the 50 yardline of their own stadiums.. 
In the immortal words of my old man, "Wait'll you get to be my age!"
Chicago sounds rough to the maker of verse, but the one comfort we have is Cincinnati sounds worse. ~Oliver Wendal Holmes Sr.
Posts: 14,996
Threads: 121
Reputation:
47888
Joined: May 2015
Location: Hyborea
(06-10-2019, 12:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Odds are one of those 30 guys would have done something somewhere else. Many of them either were out of Cleveland quickly or only went there for one last paycheck.
Remember how many bad QBs the Steelers had before Ben? He was supposed to Bubbie Brister 2.0 wasn't he?
I'm just not confident Mayfield will be no concern for us because Spergon Wynn and Charlie Frye stunk, is all.
The reason I am not currently worried about Mayfield has nothing to do with it being the browns. It has to do more with how when he was not playing turnstile defenses like ours and the Falcons he was VERY average and also that only two teams have played him twice - once was our incompetent defense and the other time the Rats who made him look bad. And last season the average ranking of defenses he played was 20th.
Plus there's nothing we can do to change anything. If our new coaching staff does its job and we get competent defensive play I think we beat the browns.
Posts: 28,759
Threads: 40
Reputation:
126744
Joined: May 2015
Location: Parts Unknown, PA
(06-10-2019, 01:42 PM)Joelist Wrote: The reason I am not currently worried about Mayfield has nothing to do with it being the browns. It has to do more with how when he was not playing turnstile defenses like ours and the Falcons he was VERY average and also that only two teams have played him twice - once was our incompetent defense and the other time the Rats who made him look bad. And last season the average ranking of defenses he played was 20th.
Plus there's nothing we can do to change anything. If our new coaching staff does its job and we get competent defensive play I think we beat the browns.
I'm not saying we should give ourselves ulcers over Baker Mayfield, but I'm just not as into saying it's nothing to worry about. This isn't something you can ignore like chest pain or that lump on your neck, you know?
Posts: 14,152
Threads: 501
Reputation:
106706
Joined: May 2015
(06-10-2019, 02:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not saying we should give ourselves ulcers over Baker Mayfield, but I'm just not as into saying it's nothing to worry about. This isn't something you can ignore like chest pain or that lump on your neck, you know?
Agreed. Even without OBJ, Mayfield had an outstanding rookie season. They will be a very solid team this year. I would LOVE to see the state of Ohio go 4-0 against that team from the East.
Posts: 19,086
Threads: 235
Reputation:
177416
Joined: May 2015
(06-11-2019, 07:21 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Agreed. Even without OBJ, Mayfield had an outstanding rookie season. They will be a very solid team this year. I would LOVE to see the state of Ohio go 4-0 against that team from the East.
Yep. I root for any team against the Steelers.
Posts: 3,256
Threads: 103
Reputation:
21317
Joined: Apr 2019
I put Mayfield in the same category as Mahomes. When I see it two years in a row, then I'm sold. Until then, the NFL has had lots of QBs with one good or great season with defensive coordinators having to come up with a game plan against them on the fly in three days. Then, after one season, the upcoming 13 opposing defensive coordinators have one off-season to find their weaknesses and *poof*, mortality. They're not going to watch those two QBs shred Cincinnati in 2018, they're going to watch and study the games that they lost, the games where they looked like young QBs. The NFL is a copycat league. Mahomes and Mayfield will learn that.
Only users lose drugs.
:-)-~~~
Posts: 14,152
Threads: 501
Reputation:
106706
Joined: May 2015
(06-11-2019, 08:00 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Yep. I root for any team against the Steelers.
I would root for the Iraqi National Team (if they had one) before I would root for the steelers. I have often wondered how disgusting it would feel if the Bengals had to have pitt beat someone like Cleveland or Baltimore to give us the division. I would certainly need a shower afterward.
Posts: 28,759
Threads: 40
Reputation:
126744
Joined: May 2015
Location: Parts Unknown, PA
(06-11-2019, 08:00 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Yep. I root for any team against the Steelers.
That's usually why I break out the Corey Dillon Pats jersey about midway through the season.
Posts: 19,567
Threads: 629
Reputation:
84044
Joined: Oct 2016
(06-10-2019, 12:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Odds are one of those 30 guys would have done something somewhere else. Many of them either were out of Cleveland quickly or only went there for one last paycheck.
Remember how many bad QBs the Steelers had before Ben? He was supposed to Bubbie Brister 2.0 wasn't he?
I'm just not confident Mayfield will be no concern for us because Spergon Wynn and Charlie Frye stunk, is all.
It's funny...the board will use comparisons like that.
Yet 27+ years without a playoff win means nothing for the upcoming season!
Posts: 1,340
Threads: 1
Reputation:
5599
Joined: Aug 2018
What was interesting was that someone thought an article by Hobs was interesting.
Fredtoast + Ignore = Forum bliss
Posts: 19,567
Threads: 629
Reputation:
84044
Joined: Oct 2016
(06-11-2019, 10:35 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: What was interesting was that someone thought an article by Hobs was interesting.
Yes. He basically casted all of the other teams in the division as question marks and stated how the Bengals could surprise.
It's kind of classic Hobson.
I think a lot of people on the board have been doing the same thing.
Chances are, one of the Steelers, Browns, Ravens will produce though. But, I doubt all 3 do.
Posts: 40,628
Threads: 1,062
Joined: May 2015
(06-11-2019, 10:33 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's funny...the board will use comparisons like that.
Yet 27+ years without a playoff win means nothing for the upcoming season!
Since you live and die by what happened in the past I assume you are guaranteeing Mayfield will be a flop, right?
Posts: 19,567
Threads: 629
Reputation:
84044
Joined: Oct 2016
(06-11-2019, 11:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Since you live and die by what happened in the past I assume you are guaranteeing Mayfield will be a flop, right?
I'd say he'll be above average to good. I doubt he'll be great.
Mahommes > Mayfield.
I'd rank the QB's in the Division like this:
1 ) Ben
2 ) Mayfield
3 ) Dalton
4 ) Jackson
It's close between 2 and 3.
|
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
