Talk to me about this defense

[SunsetBengal]

Here's a good 4 minutes with Carl Lawson.

https://www.bengals.com/video/lawson-the-goal-was-to-try-and-redeem-myself-from-last-season-and-come-back-bett?fbclid=IwAR0kMg5dOyc1BO3YThzejdrCTfoUAoR90VcFNCZ4gwgLI6tNB3SNe56VTjI

[Bengalitis]

I have more confidence in the D than the O for this season.

[SunsetBengal]

Nice article on the defense.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/8/1/20750113/bengals-defense-already-showing-improvement-under-lou-anarumo?fbclid=IwAR1bL2C91FBNj8aw5xcRFQVQxUfXDvYQ7lKoQz7Rk9i4NoPpMv3qP49mds4

[Luvnit2]

I think everything starts in the trenches. We were best when we had a very good 8 man rotation. Last year, we lost it due to injuries.

This potential 8 looks very good on paper:
Dunlap
Geno
Willis
Billings
Ringo
Lawson
Hubbard
Wynn
Glasglow
Wren - rookie
Tupou

If DL shores things up, then makes jobs of backs and Lb's easier. I think we need Brown & Vigil to stay healthy, then Evans, Jefferson or one of the rookies to take huge stride in 2019.

I think our DB's are very good and will better as Bates progresses.

If, so who knows, the defense could go from extreme bottom tier to 10 to 15 range in one year.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-04-2019, 03:02 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think everything starts in the trenches. We were best when we had a very good 8 man rotation. Last year, we lost it due to injuries.

This potential 8 looks very good on paper:
Dunlap
Geno
Willis
Billings
Ringo
Lawson
Hubbard
Wynn
Glasglow
Wren - rookie
Tupou

If DL shores things up, then makes jobs of backs and Lb's easier. I think we need Brown & Vigil to stay healthy, then Evans, Jefferson or one of the rookies to take huge stride in 2019.

I think our DB's are very good and will better as Bates progresses.

If, so who knows, the defense could go from extreme bottom tier to 10 to 15 range in one year.

Here's a tough question for you.  Of those 11, which 3 don't make the cut?

[Luvnit2]

(08-04-2019, 03:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Here's a tough question for you.  Of those 11, which 3 don't make the cut?

That is a tough question:

If all are healthy and no IR possibilities, I think coaches will have some tough calls:

I say Wynn stays and Willis may be cut

Wren stays and Tupou cut

I say they keep 9 DL as Wren develops and is not active early on game day

[yellowxdiscipline]

Pratts gonna start and if he ends up being what we think he'll be our defense should be in good shape.

[McC]

(08-04-2019, 05:53 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Pratts gonna start and if he ends up being what we think he'll be our defense should be in good shape.

Has someone said that or are you predicting?

How great would it be if we ever had a rookie LB make an impact?

[*jason*]

(08-04-2019, 05:59 PM)McC Wrote: Has someone said that or are you predicting?

How great would it be if we ever had a rookie LB make an impact?

Burfict was really good as a rookie. Going back a decade plus; Mauluga, Simmons, and Spikes also made immediate impacts.

Hard to believe that Burfict was 7 years ago...

[yellowxdiscipline]

(08-04-2019, 05:59 PM)McC Wrote: Has someone said that or are you predicting?

How great would it be if we ever had a rookie LB make an impact?

Merely predicting.

[fortyyearfan]

(07-29-2019, 05:31 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I think the thought is that yes, the rookie LB has every chance to start this year. Some people are really down on re-signing Preston Brown, others are hopeful he'll bounce back this year now that he's healthy.

I think we feel pretty good about our safeties (Williams, Bates, and Fejedulum). You might even extend this to the secondary as a whole, and Lou Anarumo has had success in coaching up secondary players in his time in Miami and New York.

As for a reason to be optimistic, many of us are hopeful that last year was the exception and not the rule - these guys have never been that bad before, so a lot of us think they may bounce back to at least be more in the middle of the pack. Granted that's a lot of wishful thinking as they haven't exactly added a bunch of experienced veterans to help bolster the unit, but there seems to be some optimism about the rookies.

I don't think we've seen anywhere near enough to really have any idea what the new DC's approach will be, though early reports are that he's going DB-heavy on the field.

To me,I believe our D is going to be night and day better and IF THEY STAY HEALTHY, they could rank very high and I believe our D coach is going to get a lot of recognition around the league and we will lose him to a team that wants him to be their head coach.And he said he is open to being the head man in the future.I truly believe our D is going to be great if they stay healthy.You heard it first right here.

[TopSix]

(07-29-2019, 05:17 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: With training camp here and the season just around the corner, I feel like i hear nothing and know nothing about this defense. Is their any reason to be optimistic for these guys? If there has been any hype around the D I have missed it. I don’t post on here much anymore but I will often peak in. Between the boards and the articles everything is focused on coaching staff, the o-line, and of course now with resigning of Boyd and Green’s injury, focus has shifted to WR core. Can someone shed some light on our LB core and will the rookie we drafted fight for a starting spot? How about our safety situation? For how many points the D gave up last year I feel like there has been no focus on them, which in that case makes me believe we should expect more of the same this year. Your knowledge is appreciated here! Thanks!

They were the worst defense in the league and added zero mentionable help. 

It is going to be ugly. 

The scheme has nothing to do with it.  They have the least  talented linebackers in the NFL, and it isnt even close. 

[SunsetBengal]

(08-04-2019, 07:13 PM)TopSix Wrote: They were the worst defense in the league and added zero mentionable help. 

It is going to be ugly. 

The scheme has nothing to do with it.  They have the least  talented linebackers in the NFL, and it isnt even close. 

Are you even a Bengals fan??

[Joelist]

(08-04-2019, 07:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Are you even a Bengals fan??

The only thing I can think of is he has never watched them play. The scheme was CLEARLY a lot of the problem as it had the players hesitating trying to figure out what to do. 

On the LBs injuries were a big problem as well as scheme as Brown got hurt and then after coming back the lack of healthy players meant he had to play hurt to boot. So did Vigil. We actually had games where we ran out Vigil, Evans and Nickerson as the LB unit and it looked like Vigil was playing LB by himself out there. Vigil, Brown and Pratt if healthy is worlds better than what we ran out there last season. 

[TopSix]

(08-04-2019, 07:50 PM)Joelist Wrote: The only thing I can think of is he has never watched them play. The scheme was CLEARLY a lot of the problem as it had the players hesitating trying to figure out what to do. 

On the LBs injuries were a big problem as well as scheme as Brown got hurt and then after coming back the lack of healthy players meant he had to play hurt to boot. So did Vigil. We actually had games where we ran out Vigil, Evans and Nickerson as the LB unit and it looked like Vigil was playing LB by himself out there. Vigil, Brown and Pratt if healthy is worlds better than what we ran out there last season. 

Vigil, the Bengals 'Best Linebacker'  held PFF's worst grade out of 33 qualifiers at 4-3 outside linebackers.


Must be the scheme. 

[Joelist]

If you actually trust PFF that is laughable. They are in the same credibility club as ESPNs QBR...

[TopSix]

(08-04-2019, 08:48 PM)Joelist Wrote: If you actually trust PFF that is laughable. They are in the same credibility club as ESPNs QBR...

Yes, when we dont like that stats cause they show bengals to be below avg, discredit the stat

Would love to hear why the NFL, Scouts, Coaches and GMs use TQBR and PFF - But you refuse to acknowledge them.

I will wait.     Tell me why PFF is a bad measure of NFL talent

[SunsetBengal]

(08-04-2019, 08:42 PM)TopSix Wrote: Vigil, the Bengals 'Best Linebacker'  held PFF's worst grade out of 33 qualifiers at 4-3 outside linebackers.


Must be the scheme. 

Hmm, that's where you're wrong.  Preston Brown is clearly the Bengals "best" LB.  However, since he was injured early in the season, his sample size was small, and thus not qualifying for those beloved PFF ratings.  Along that same line of thinking, Nick Vigil isn't "great" by any standard of measurement, but he is decent and continues to improve every year.  I'm fine with him in the mix, as should be any Bengals fan.

[J24]

(08-04-2019, 07:13 PM)TopSix Wrote: They were the worst defense in the league and added zero mentionable help. 

It is going to be ugly. 

The scheme has nothing to do with it.  They have the least  talented linebackers in the NFL, and it isnt even close. 

There getting back there best edge rusher in Carl Lawson who missed 9 games last season.

(08-04-2019, 08:42 PM)TopSix Wrote: Vigil, the Bengals 'Best Linebacker'  held PFF's worst grade out of 33 qualifiers at 4-3 outside linebackers.


Must be the scheme. 

Are you sure Vigil was dead last in PFF rating ( in 2017 he was)? Anyways he was a top 10 Lb in run Defense and he was credited with not giving up a passing TD last season. Also before he got hurt he lead the league for run stops.
Also the defense improved drastically when he came back from injury + the combination of Marvin calling plays.

[fredtoast]

(08-04-2019, 08:59 PM)TopSix Wrote: Would love to hear why the NFL, Scouts, Coaches and GMs use TQBR and PFF - But you refuse to acknowledge them.

I will wait.     Tell me why PFF is a bad measure of NFL talent

If you post the full list of PFF rankings you will see that NFL teams don't really put a lot of weight on them.  Lot of guys who PFF has rated lower get paid more by NFL teams in free agency than some of the PFF favorites.

In 2015 Dre Kirkpatrick played 97% of the snaps for a top 3 pass defense and finished in the top 30 in almost every OBJECTIVE stat (success rate, yards per target, completion percentage allowed) yet PFF had him ranked as the 114th CB in the league behind a bunch of scrubs who barely played.  It was a complete joke.

I am sure NFL teams use the raw stats that PFF collects, but they don't seem too impressed with the individual player rankings.