Reds after Trevor Bauer?

[Yojimbo]

(07-31-2019, 10:22 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: The Reds have the pitcher's whisperer in Johnson.  It will be interesting to see what Johnson does with Bauer and if he can improve his performance.  

The concern isn't his abilty to pitch. The concern is his attitude.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(08-01-2019, 10:22 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: The concern isn't his abilty to pitch. The concern is his attitude.

Interesting. I remember hearing something similar about an ex-Reds outfielder earlier this year.

[NKURyan]

(08-01-2019, 10:32 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Interesting. I remember hearing something similar about an ex-Reds outfielder earlier this year.

How many fights was that guy involved in this year? Let's not act like those were completely unfounded.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-01-2019, 10:22 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: The concern isn't his abilty to pitch. The concern is his attitude.

(08-01-2019, 10:32 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Interesting. I remember hearing something similar about an ex-Reds outfielder earlier this year.

He's had "issues" in his past no doubt. Perhaps a new environment, new team mates, new coaches can help in that area ?

[McC]

(08-01-2019, 12:09 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: He's had "issues" in his past no doubt. Perhaps a new environment, new team mates, new coaches can help in that area ?

He was stuck living in Cleveland.  That's enough to put anybody in a permanent bad mood.

[fredtoast]

(07-31-2019, 08:12 PM)NKURyan Wrote: But hey, we've got a hell of a rotation for 2020. I'm sure the Reds will go all-in next year, World Series championship or bust, right? Especially since they've got this rotation for basically one year, right? Please. They'll bring in an also-ran or two, call it an offseason, and hope that it gets them to third in the division.

Then in 2021 it's right back to square one when these guys take a walk (assuming the Reds didn't trade them away already in 2020). But hey, we'll get 'em next year, or the year after! Honest!

Sorry to piss on your victim card, but just last offseason the Reds brought in Puig plus THREE good starting pitchers (Gray, Roark, and Wood).

Stop making stuff up just so you will have a reason to whine.

[cinci4life]

(08-01-2019, 12:08 PM)NKURyan Wrote: How many fights was that guy involved in this year? Let's not act like those were completely unfounded.

So if I remember correctly there have been only 2 fights(both against Pirates) which the rest of the team was involved in too. And he didn't start either of them, the Pirates did. In fact the latest one he was actually trying to separate players when a Pirates player said something to him to reinstigate. 

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(08-01-2019, 01:17 PM)McC Wrote: He was stuck living in Cleveland.  That's enough to put anybody in a permanent bad mood.

The only advantage playing for Cleveland . . . no road trips to Cleveland.

[*psychdoctor*]

Marcus Stroman would have been better choice. Same control value, better ERA (Albeit Bauer has been struggling with torn ligaments in ankle all year per self-report) and way cheaper at just over 7 mil per year. They would have had a better chance of signing Stroman to a long-term contract for 4-5 years like Gray.

Bauer wants go to year to year and appeared shocked by the trade per an interview. I preferred Stroman but Bauer appeared excited to work with Johnson and maybe his attitude will change with the new team, especially if he can help the Reds somehow some way get into the playoffs this year. I just think he will be expensive if he were to sign a long term contract and Castillo will be expensive as well. Votto and his contract is an anchor until 2023 at which time the Reds can free up 25 mil.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(08-01-2019, 03:26 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Marcus Stroman would have been better choice.  Same control value, better ERA (Albeit Bauer has been struggling with torn ligaments in ankle all year per self-report) and way cheaper at just over 7 mil per year.  They would have had a better chance of signing Stroman to a long-term contract for 4-5 years like Gray.  

Bauer wants go to year to year and appeared shocked by the trade per an interview.  I preferred Stroman but Bauer appeared excited to work with Johnson and maybe his attitude will change with the new team, especially if he can help the Reds somehow some way get into the playoffs this year.  I just think he will be expensive if he were to sign a long term contract and Castillo will be expensive as well.  Votto and his contract is an anchor until 2023 at which time the Reds can free up 25 mil.

Yeah, but the Blue Jays didn't need an outfielder for two months, that's the catch. They would have wanted more youth than the Reds were willing to give up to save a few bucks.

[NKURyan]

(08-01-2019, 02:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry to piss on your victim card, but just last offseason the Reds brought in Puig plus THREE good starting pitchers (Gray, Roark, and Wood).

Stop making stuff up just so you will have a reason to whine.

Right, and it was evident from the get go that most of those guys were short term rentals. Lo and behold they were! Of those three "good starting pitchers" Gray's been good, Roark was average, and Wood just recently got into his first game of the year (and is only under contract through the end of this season). What exactly did those moves accomplish? It moved the Reds from "completely terrible" to "bad". For all the talk of how the Reds aren't that far out of it, they still have only the 20th best record in baseball right now. They're barely out of the bottom third of the league.

You don't really consider that an example of the Reds going all-in on winning, do you? And you expect any different this offseason?

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

If the Reds didn't have a rookie manager clumsily guiding this team, they'd be a lot closer to first right now. The Reds went 4-3 against the Giants and the Reds should have swept them. I blame all three of those losses and more on Dumb Bell's mis-management.

[McC]

(08-01-2019, 04:59 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Right, and it was evident from the get go that most of those guys were short term rentals. Lo and behold they were! Of those three "good starting pitchers" Gray's been good, Roark was average, and Wood just recently got into his first game of the year (and is only under contract through the end of this season). What exactly did those moves accomplish? It moved the Reds from "completely terrible" to "bad".

You don't really consider that an example of the Reds going all-in on winning, do you?

When's the last time a team went from losing 95 games to winning a division or even a WC?  All three teams in their division above them in the standings spend more than they do so thinking last to first was really a pipe dream and not really indicative of going all in or not.

[fredtoast]

(08-01-2019, 04:59 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Right, and it was evident from the get go that most of those guys were short term rentals. Lo and behold they were! Of those three "good starting pitchers" Gray's been good, Roark was average, and Wood just recently got into his first game of the year (and is only under contract through the end of this season). What exactly did those moves accomplish? It moved the Reds from "completely terrible" to "bad". For all the talk of how the Reds aren't that far out of it, they still have only the 20th best record in baseball right now. They're barely out of the bottom third of the league.

You don't really consider that an example of the Reds going all-in on winning, do you? And you expect any different this offseason?

Stop moving the goalposts.

You said they never make any moves for good players and that is 100% wrong.  We improved our pitching staff from the worst in the league to one of the best and Gray and Bauer will both be back next year.


The Reds tried, but how would they know that our All-star 2B would be lost to injury and our star closer would forget how to close.  Plus we have had a lot of bad luck in one-run games.  The Reds have outscored their opponents by 29 runs.  That is 6th best in the NL.  Last year we were outscored by over 100 runs and were 13th out of 15 in the NL.


Personally I am enjoying this season a lot more than a 100 loss season with the "hope" of a winner in "a couple of years". 

[NKURyan]

(08-01-2019, 06:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Stop moving the goalposts.

You said they never make any moves for good players and that is 100% wrong.  We improved our pitching staff from the worst in the league to one of the best and Gray and Bauer will both be back next year.


The Reds tried, but how would they know that our All-star 2B would be lost to injury and our star closer would forget how to close.  Plus we have had a lot of bad luck in one-run games.  The Reds have outscored their opponents by 29 runs.  That is 6th best in the NL.  Last year we were outscored by over 100 runs and were 13th out of 15 in the NL.


Personally I am enjoying this season a lot more than a 100 loss season with the "hope" of a winner in "a couple of years". 

Talk about moving the goalposts!

At no point here did I say they never make any moves for good players. At worst I said "they might do just enough to try to convince us all that they've got a shot at grabbing a wildcard spot if things fall the right way", which is a pretty clear reference to what they did last offseason that I guess flew right over your head. You're doing what you always do when you get into it with someone on here and making up your own points and misreading what people said to try to score points off of people, which makes it pretty damn pointless to even try to have a discussion with you. Don't put words in to my mouth.


Like I said in the *exact same post you quoted*, Gray's been a good acquisition. Roark's been average, and now he's gone. Wood just finally played a game for them, and even if he is good for them he's gone after the season. So that's a yay, a big whoop, and a big whoop. Good on the Reds for that, I guess, but let's not pretend this is any indication that the Reds are willing to go all in on winning. But hey, "the Reds tried".


Meanwhile, you're dodging the real question here - do you think the Reds are going to go all-in to build a winner around this amazing rotation they have next year (for one year only)? As far as I'm concerned they sure as hell had better or all of this was for nothing (outside of keeping the "at least we're not terrible" group of fans happy, I guess), and yes, that means doing even more than they did last offseason. I'm betting the Reds buy into every single one of these talking points you and talk radio love so much ("look at the run differential!" and "if they were just a little more lucky!") and use that as an excuse to stand pat, personally, but I guess we'll see.


Do you expect the Reds to go balls-to-the-wall to win next year with this rotation, or not? There's only one acceptable answer.

[*psychdoctor*]

(08-01-2019, 04:54 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Yeah, but the Blue Jays didn't need an outfielder for two months, that's the catch. They would have wanted more youth than the Reds were willing to give up to save a few bucks.

I would have traded Trammel and another for Stroman.  It is more than what they got.   Then traded Puig to someone else.

[fredtoast]

(08-01-2019, 07:05 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Talk about moving the goalposts!

At no point here did I say they never make any moves for good players. At worst I said "they might do just enough to try to convince us all that they've got a shot at grabbing a wildcard spot if things fall the right way", which is a pretty clear reference to what they did last offseason that I guess flew right over your head. You're doing what you always do when you get into it with someone on here and making up your own points and misreading what people said to try to score points off of people, which makes it pretty damn pointless to even try to have a discussion with you. Don't put words in to my mouth.


Like I said in the *exact same post you quoted*, Gray's been a good acquisition. Roark's been average, and now he's gone. Wood just finally played a game for them, and even if he is good for them he's gone after the season. So that's a yay, a big whoop, and a big whoop. Good on the Reds for that, I guess, but let's not pretend this is any indication that the Reds are willing to go all in on winning. But hey, "the Reds tried".


Meanwhile, you're dodging the real question here - do you think the Reds are going to go all-in to build a winner around this amazing rotation they have next year (for one year only)? As far as I'm concerned they sure as hell had better or all of this was for nothing (outside of keeping the "at least we're not terrible" group of fans happy, I guess), and yes, that means doing even more than they did last offseason. I'm betting the Reds buy into every single one of these talking points you and talk radio love so much ("look at the run differential!" and "if they were just a little more lucky!") and use that as an excuse to stand pat, personally, but I guess we'll see.


Do you expect the Reds to go balls-to-the-wall to win next year with this rotation, or not? There's only one acceptable answer.

I don't know how you can claim that adding 3 top starting pitchers and a player like Puig means they "are not trying".  That is just ridiculous.

But I guess your idea of a "big whoop" is watching the Reds lose 100 games every year and keeping tabs of some guys in the minors who may never even make the big club.  That is a kind of a strange way to define going "balls to the wall" to win.

And I have not avoided any question.  I think the Reds will try to win it all next year.  

[cinci4life]

https://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/mccoy-bauer-not-committed-reds-any-team-long-term/YbEf1LblOwcjwREWyZGu2I/?fbclid=IwAR1UYNvvN2nNPDAp5A5gnc5QAPym4a51NvKxbbKWJQRo5cgT-jR86Lrddhg

Bauer is not signing any long term contracts but only 1 year contracts but doesn't mean he wouldn't resign with the same team. Main reason is he wants to play for a winning team. Guess it will all depend on how well the Reds play next year to determine if they can resign him.