Player Bias

[*ochocincos*]

Just happened to notice something when browsing through PFF...

John Ross 2018 - 49.4
Billy Price 2018 - 49.4

Yet when I see most people talk about Billy Price, it's mostly optimism that he's going to develop into a stud.
On the flip side, I see a lot of pessimism on Ross doing the same.

Why are Price and Ross viewed in opposite trajectories when they both had a not-good-overall 2018 season? Why is Price given a pass but Ross is (overly) criticized as being a bust?

Is it because one was picked at 9 while the other was picked at 21?
Is it because one plays a position that doesn't have stats associated with it whereas the other does?
It sure can't be about durability, as both entered their NFL career injured and neither has played 16 games yet in their careers.

[BengalChris]

(08-08-2019, 02:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Just happened to notice something when browsing through PFF...

John Ross 2018 - 49.4
Billy Price 2018 - 49.4

Yet when I see most people talk about Billy Price, it's mostly optimism that he's going to develop into a stud.
On the flip side, I see a lot of pessimism on Ross doing the same.

Why are Price and Ross viewed in opposite trajectories when they both had a not-good-overall 2018 season? Why is Price given a pass but Ross is (overly) criticized as being a bust?

Is it because one was picked at 9 while the other was picked at 21?
Is it because one plays a position that doesn't have stats associated with it whereas the other does?
It sure can't be about durability, as both entered their NFL career injured and neither has played 16 games yet in their careers.

Ross played for two years. Price for one. Price is a high character guy. Ross is not (see videos calling out the coach). Price doesn't give up on plays. Ross has.

What was Ross' rookie year ranking? It had to be incredibly bad. Compare Ross' rookie ranking with Price's rookie ranking.

By the way, if Price sucks this year I'll be very unhappy with him. Expected a lot more. I expect even more from a top 10 pick, who should come in have an immediate positive impact on the team. Ross failed at that miserably.

[*jason*]

(08-08-2019, 02:55 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Ross played for two years. Price for one. Price is a high character guy. Ross is not (see videos calling out the coach). Price doesn't give up on plays. Ross has.

What was Ross' rookie year ranking? It had to be incredibly bad. Compare Ross' rookie ranking with Price's rookie ranking.

 

I gave Ross a -13 rating for his rookie season.

[*pally*]

Centers have a different development arc than wide receivers. With rare exceptions, centers take several years to reach their potential since the position is so different from college to pro. There is just so much to learn with calling the OL blocking assignments, centering with the QB under him, not in the shotgun, and the added speed, strength, and defensive schemes coming at him. Add in Price's injuries last year and he lost development time his rookie season. John Ross is in season 3 with some of the same issues each season. He has problems in some of the basic skills of a WR...he drops way too many passes, he runs wrong routes, and he gives up on plays. You expect a receiver to catch passes he touches when he enters the league.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-08-2019, 02:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Just happened to notice something when browsing through PFF...

John Ross 2018 - 49.4
Billy Price 2018 - 49.4

Yet when I see most people talk about Billy Price, it's mostly optimism that he's going to develop into a stud.
On the flip side, I see a lot of pessimism on Ross doing the same.

Why are Price and Ross viewed in opposite trajectories when they both had a not-good-overall 2018 season? Why is Price given a pass but Ross is (overly) criticized as being a bust?

Is it because one was picked at 9 while the other was picked at 21?
Is it because one plays a position that doesn't have stats associated with it whereas the other does?
It sure can't be about durability, as both entered their NFL career injured and neither has played 16 games yet in their careers.

Price was a rookie whose injuries derailed his season.
Ross was NOT a rookie whose problems seem to stem from mental issues.

[fredtoast]

(08-08-2019, 02:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Why are Price and Ross viewed in opposite trajectories when they both had a not-good-overall 2018 season? Why is Price given a pass but Ross is (overly) criticized as being a bust?

Price was a rookie.  Ross was 2nd year.

Price was a starter.  Ross was not. (until green was injured)

Price missed twice as many games as Ross due to injury.

[*bengalfan74*]

I agree with those saying some of it has to do with Ross quitting on routes. Ross not fighting for position and the ball.

[XenoMorph]

(08-08-2019, 02:55 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Ross played for two years. Price for one. Price is a high character guy. Ross is not (see videos calling out the coach). Price doesn't give up on plays. Ross has.

What was Ross' rookie year ranking? It had to be incredibly bad. Compare Ross' rookie ranking with Price's rookie ranking.

By the way, if Price sucks this year I'll be very unhappy with him. Expected a lot more. I expect even more from a top 10 pick, who should come in have an immediate positive impact on the team. Ross failed at that miserably.

ross would not have qualified his rookie year for a ranking I don't believe

John ross year 2 was much better than year 1.

So Far Hopkins has been a better OC than price for us.

As long as they are wearing stripes I hope they both improve and reach that draft status.

[*jason*]

I think some of it is that John Ross was viewed as a luxury pick by some. To others, he's the reason we didn't draft Patrick Mahomes. Billy Price was our guy that was gonna replace Bodine

[*ochocincos*]

(08-08-2019, 04:26 PM)jason Wrote: I think some of it is that John Ross was viewed as a luxury pick by some. To others, he's the reason we didn't draft Patrick Mahomes. Billy Price was our guy that was gonna replace Bodine

At the time, Ross was expected to be the guy to extend the field and open up underneath routes for the other receivers. I don't think that was quite a luxury as some think.

As for those who thought the Bengals should have drafted Mahomes, well...I'm sorry but I don't remember seeing a single mock draft or thread on this site wanting the Bengals to draft Mahomes. Any QB being discussed on this MB was Trubisky vs Watson. Mahomes was near-universally thought of as the 3rd QB in the class.

FWIW, I wanted OJ Howard, as I was expecting/wanting the Bengals to prep for Eifert's departure in FA after the 2017 season.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-08-2019, 03:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Price was a rookie.  Ross was 2nd year.

Price was a starter.  Ross was not. (until green was injured)

Price missed twice as many games as Ross due to injury.

If talking about starters as rookies, Ross had Green, LaFell, and Boyd in front of him.
Price had no incumbent to beat out.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-08-2019, 03:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Price was a rookie whose injuries derailed his season.
Ross was NOT a rookie whose problems seem to stem from mental issues.

Actually injuries have been a big factor for why Ross hasn't contributed as much as some hoped/expected.
It was revealed in his rookie year when he went to IR that he kept his injuries a secret so he could try to get on the field.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-08-2019, 03:00 PM)pally Wrote: Centers have a different development arc than wide receivers.  With rare exceptions, centers take several years to reach their potential since the position is so different from college to pro.  There is just so much to learn with calling the OL blocking assignments, centering with the QB under him, not in the shotgun, and the added speed, strength, and defensive schemes coming at him.  Add in Price's injuries last year and he lost development time his rookie season.  John Ross is in season 3 with some of the same issues each season.  He has problems in some of the basic skills of a WR...he drops way too many passes, he runs wrong routes, and he gives up on plays.  You expect a receiver to catch passes he touches when he enters the league.

I am a Ross supporter but this pretty much nails the reason why Price gets more of a pass.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-08-2019, 03:00 PM)pally Wrote: Centers have a different development arc than wide receivers.  With rare exceptions, centers take several years to reach their potential since the position is so different from college to pro.  There is just so much to learn with calling the OL blocking assignments, centering with the QB under him, not in the shotgun, and the added speed, strength, and defensive schemes coming at him.  Add in Price's injuries last year and he lost development time his rookie season.  John Ross is in season 3 with some of the same issues each season.  He has problems in some of the basic skills of a WR...he drops way too many passes, he runs wrong routes, and he gives up on plays.  You expect a receiver to catch passes he touches when he enters the league.

I see a double-standard in this.
I see multiple excuses for Price for how different the college game is from the pros.
Shouldn't the same be said for a WR? A lot of colleges don't run pro-style offenses anymore.
Ross lost development time his rookie season and time last year too due to injuries.

I just don't think it's fair for Price to be given a pass to adapt to the pro game but Ross isn't given the same.
Billy Price was even quoted saying his offense in college was very simple, so it's taking time to adjust to the pro game from a mental standpoint.
Shouldn't we give the same leeway to Ross?

[HuDey]

Those who didn’t like the Ross pick to begin with probably had lower expectations and were therefore quicker to come with the bust label. I personally give Price more slack because I have higher expectations for him than I did Ross. I expected Price to be a goo pro, while I expected Ross to be injury prone and one dimensional. If Price continues to underperform or be unavailable due to frequent injuries, my patience with him will evaporate quickly.

[fredtoast]

(08-08-2019, 05:03 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I just don't think it's fair for Price to be given a pass to adapt to the pro game but Ross isn't given the same.

Many people did give Ross a pass after his first season.   Lots of people blaming Marvin for banishing him to the dog house.

If Price sucks ass his second season them many people will call him a bust also.

I don't see a double standard.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-08-2019, 05:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Many people did give Ross a pass after his first season.   Lots of people blaming Marvin for banishing him to the dog house.

If Price sucks ass his second season them many people will call him a bust also.

I don't see a double standard.

Ok, so the basic difference is rookie vs sophomore year.

[fredtoast]

(08-08-2019, 05:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ok, so the basic difference is rookie vs sophomore year.

That is the number one reason.

Many fans also dislike Ross because he seems to quit on routes and pull stunts like posting practice video to try and show up the coaches when he actually was not earning playing time.

[TopSix]

It is worth noting how bad Billy Price was last year. 


As the most 'NFL ready' of the 2018 Drafted Centers, he really was awful when he played last year. 


They dont stand a chance in 2019 without him playing at a near pro bowl type level.  

[NKURyan]

(08-08-2019, 05:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ok, so the basic difference is rookie vs sophomore year.

I think Billy is also granted a little leeway because of where he went to college, too.

Plus as Bengals fans I would think we're all pretty much past the point where we judge our first rounders based on how they do in year one because they're pretty much always severely injured at some point.