Bengals claim Cooper, Perine

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-01-2019, 09:01 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: It is a labrum tear and it takes a year to fully recover.  How do I know?  My son had one middle of junior season and wasn’t back to full strength until middle of his senior season.  Jonah won’t be back this year.  Wishful thinking


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Maybe, maybe not. It's case by case. 

The recovery depends upon many factors, such as where the tear was located, how severe it was and how good the surgical repair was. It is believed that it takes at least four to six weeks for the labrum to reattach itself to the rim of the bone, and probably another four to six weeks to get strong. Once the labrum has healed to the rim of the bone, it should see stress very gradually so that it can gather strength. It is important not to reinjure it while it is healing.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/shoulder-labrum-tear

[*rfaulk34*]

Well...here's something interesting. 

Among the players who did return to play, the average time between surgery and the first game played was 8.6 months. None of the 60 athletes returned to play in the same season in which he underwent surgery. Most of the athletes who had surgery in the offseason returned in time to play at the start of the following season.
https://www.drdavidgeier.com/shoulder-surgery-nfl-players/



So...i will cool my jets on the prospect of him playing at all this year. 

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(09-01-2019, 02:03 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Cooper likely won't play WR on offense. He's mainly a kick/punt returner. Literally every guy we're had on the roster in camp is better than him.

Better than him as a WR or better than him as a returner?

(09-01-2019, 02:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Can we keep 2 kick/punt returners in Erickson and Cooper?

I see this move as a vote of confidence in Erickson. It says they expect to be using him a ton on offense so need someone to handle his returning duties. How long this is for is another matter. Once AJ is back does Erickson return to return duties, making Cooper expandable?

[SunsetBengal]

(09-01-2019, 11:33 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That, in itself, bodes well for (as we've said, a young guy) his timeline to come back in the 4th quarter of the season. 

What i was wondering...when you were a full go on lifting heavy again, how long did it take before you "felt strong" like before?

Also, from what you know of his injury, how similar/dissimilar were the procedures?

As I touched on earlier, building the muscle back was the easy part.  The deep healing that which allowed me to "feel" strong and have full confidence in the shoulder, is what took longer to achieve.  Being able to move weight through controlled movements is one thing, but not being cautious so as to not get a shocking sensation, similar to what I would call an electric "jolt", is another.

I likely had more work done to mine than Jonah, simply because I had a lifetime of damages and scar tissue from continuing to live with those injuries for years.  The worst was a full thickness tear in the rotator cuff, about 5 cm long.  Also had a torn labrum, suprispinitis was completely severed, biceps tendon was detached.  Also much "clean up" of bone spurs, scar tissue, etc.

If his tear was a minor one, and combined with the quicker healing of youth, he could possibly be available near the end of the season.  But, unless they absolutely need to press him into service, why chance ruining the repair or his confidence in the healing shoulder?

[BengalsRocker]

(09-02-2019, 08:39 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Better than him as a WR or better than him as a returner?


I see this move as a vote of confidence in Erickson. It says they expect to be using him a ton on offense so need someone to handle his returning duties. How long this is for is another matter. Once AJ is back does Erickson return to return duties, making Cooper expandable?

or...

When the time comes they know if Tate should be on the roster?

I agree that they'll throw Erickson more in on offense with the Cooper pick up to share return duties.

I would think they try this combo and figure out if Erickson remains as WR help, then it comes down to Cooper/Tate when AJ comes back.

[BengalsRocker]

(09-01-2019, 02:01 PM)jj22 Wrote: The cut is going to have to come from the Defensive side (DL) of the ball that is already short on cb's and lb's. With these players having to be on the team through week 3 I can't see any other moves. Sounds like Dolegala is legitimately on the roster if you take ZT word for it.

I can't see keeping 8 receivers so something is up there. With ZT saying no IR for AJ who's out/traded?

(09-01-2019, 03:04 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Erickson

That would be stupid...  though...  Bengals.

Let's keep a guy with an upside this time.

Quit letting players who are reliable and productive but not superstars go.

We always like to cling to these injured "never beens/future superstars" projects that do nothing.

Getting rid of Erickson would be plain flat out stupidity at this point.

[*pally*]

(09-01-2019, 09:01 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: It is a labrum tear and it takes a year to fully recover.  How do I know?  My son had one middle of junior season and wasn’t back to full strength until middle of his senior season.  Jonah won’t be back this year.  Wishful thinking


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

In addition to the intangibles of the injury that we don't know, your son did not receive top of the line full-time rehab.  He saw his PT 3 days a week for an hour for 6-12 weeks.  The rest of the time he did everything on his own.  Jonah is working with professional sports medicine physical therapists for EVERY rehab session which occur multiple times a day.  He is receiving the state of the art methods and using equipment that was likely out of the reach of most non-professional athletes.  

[kevin]

(09-01-2019, 01:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: Pharoh Cooper, former Cardinal Wideout
Samaje Perine RB Washington

No OT/LB.

Interesting that we went with an 8th receiver?

Not impressed with Perine. Didn't have a great game against us in the preseason.

Former Bengal notes.

Browns claim Malik Jefferson
Giants claim Core

I like the additions and here is why :

Both are very young like extra draft picks

Cooper has been in Pro Bowl as Kick Returner 

Perine is the All-Time rushing leader for Oklahoma Sooners, which IS impressive. 

Again, both are very young like extra draft picks.  There is great upside to both young players.  Cooper 24, Perine 23 the ages of 2 extra draft picks which Bengals need with so many draft picks last few years who didn't pan out, and due to new head coach and NEW DEY. 

When in doubt, go with youth.  These are 2 solid young players.  One an NFL Pro Bowl already, the other the Oklahoma Sooners All-Time rushing leader ahead of Billy Sims. 

Look for Pro Bowl kick returner Cooper to fill that role. Bengals lack depth behind Mixon and Bernard and that's where Perine fills a huge need. For RB depth, I like the idea of Oklahoma all-time leading rusher. Bengals have had some good RB's from Oklahoma in their history, a team that likes to run the football. Mixon and Perine were on same Oklahoma team. Coach Taylor knows Cooper from LA Rams. Perine as #3 RB for now and the 23 year old could help his future by learning some special teams tackling and such.

Again, at ages 24 and 23 these are like 2 extra draft picks, only better. One already in Pro Bowl.

NEW DEY.....GO BENGALS.....Now people didn't think Taylor was going to keep all of the Marvin last place Bengals, did they ???

[Sled21]

(09-02-2019, 09:08 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: That would be stupid...  though...  Bengals.

Let's keep a guy with an upside this time.

Quit letting players who are reliable and productive but not superstars go.

We always like to cling to these injured "never beens/future superstars" projects that do nothing.

Getting rid of Erickson would be plain flat out stupidity at this point.

Yeah, they can't get rid of Alex. Not only is he one of the best punt returners in the game, he is sure handed and moves the chains.

[Sled21]

(09-01-2019, 11:43 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Well...here's something interesting. 

Among the players who did return to play, the average time between surgery and the first game played was 8.6 months. None of the 60 athletes returned to play in the same season in which he underwent surgery. Most of the athletes who had surgery in the offseason returned in time to play at the start of the following season.
https://www.drdavidgeier.com/shoulder-surgery-nfl-players/



So...i will cool my jets on the prospect of him playing at all this year. 

As a rookie with no playing time, he wouldn't be much help if they rushed him back anyway. They'll let him heal and be ready for next year....

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-02-2019, 08:44 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: As I touched on earlier, building the muscle back was the easy part.  The deep healing that which allowed me to "feel" strong and have full confidence in the shoulder, is what took longer to achieve.  Being able to move weight through controlled movements is one thing, but not being cautious so as to not get a shocking sensation, similar to what I would call an electric "jolt", is another.

I likely had more work done to mine than Jonah, simply because I had a lifetime of damages and scar tissue from continuing to live with those injuries for years.  The worst was a full thickness tear in the rotator cuff, about 5 cm long.  Also had a torn labrum, suprispinitis was completely severed, biceps tendon was detached.  Also much "clean up" of bone spurs, scar tissue, etc.

If his tear was a minor one, and combined with the quicker healing of youth, he could possibly be available near the end of the season.  But, unless they absolutely need to press him into service, why chance ruining the repair or his confidence in the healing shoulder?

True. Long term investment over short term gains. My wife had her shoulder done, and like your situation, it was from a career of being a nurse and decades of lifting patients. She had several things done as well. They used 5 incisions to correct everything in her shoulder. Fortunately, she was able to find something else to do, with the same company that allowed her to not have to do heavy lifting anymore and she actually makes more money now as well. A fortunate outcome, considering she had been a nurse for 30+ years. 

I do recall that she was in a lot of pain for a while after the operation and she absolutely hated all the rehab. Off topic but i can see how people would get addicted to pain killers because she was on a constant cycle of them to deal with all the post op pain. 

[kevin]

(09-02-2019, 09:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Yeah, they can't get rid of Alex. Not only is he one of the best punt returners in the game, he is sure handed and moves the chains.

Erickson is not a lock at kick returns with Pro Bowl kick returner Cooper added to team and still only 24.  You may not know Cooper, but Coach Taylor does, they were both on LA Rams. 

Look for Cooper to get kick return time fast, and Perine as back-up to Mixon & Bernard to be suited up and ready to give them breathers as he gets some playing time early also. The 24 and 23 year old's like extra draft picks brought in for a reason. A Pro Bowl kick returner in Cooper and Oklahoma Sooners all-rime leading rusher in Perine who passed Billy Sims. Don't be surprised if both don't get in Seattle game at some point.

The Bengals have been around last place last few years getting all the coaches fired. Time for a NEW DEY. I like the talent these 2 young players add, like 2 extra draft picks only better because one already in Pro Bowl.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-02-2019, 10:02 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: True. Long term investment over short term gains. My wife had her shoulder done, and like your situation, it was from a career of being a nurse and decades of lifting patients. She had several things done as well. They used 5 incisions to correct everything in her shoulder. Fortunately, she was able to find something else to do, with the same company that allowed her to not have to do heavy lifting anymore and she actually makes more money now as well. A fortunate outcome, considering she had been a nurse for 30+ years. 

I do recall that she was in a lot of pain for a while after the operation and she absolutely hated all the rehab. Off topic but i can see how people would get addicted to pain killers because she was on a constant cycle of them to deal with all the post op pain. 

Rehab was no fun.  However, as an aging strength competitor, I had to embrace the rehab.  I made it my workout for 12 weeks.  PT sessions twice a week, and an hour or more every day doing the prescribed PT exercises in the gym, the other 5 days per week.

The toughest part of transitioning back to actual training, was exerting rotational force using the shoulder.  For example, the "clean" portion of a clean and press.  I suspect that this will also be an issue with Jonah Williams, as cleans are fundamental for linemen.

[impactplaya]

The thing with Cooper is that he made the Pro Bowl as a RETURNER.
he does a 103 yd return for a TD.
Erickson has done neither to this point.
Erickson is reliable but he is not EXPLOSIVE as a returner.
I don't have stats in front of me but I guessing Cooper might have more 40 yd plus
Returns than Erickson
ZT might be looking for more big plays in the return Game

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-02-2019, 10:22 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Rehab was no fun.  However, as an aging strength competitor, I had to embrace the rehab.  I made it my workout for 12 weeks.  PT sessions twice a week, and an hour or more every day doing the prescribed PT exercises in the gym, the other 5 days per week.

The toughest part of transitioning back to actual training, was exerting rotational force using the shoulder.  For example, the "clean" portion of a clean and press.  I suspect that this will also be an issue with Jonah Williams, as cleans are fundamental for linemen.

Yep. Right now, he's only about 8-9 weeks post op, so he has a long road to go. 

[kevin]

(09-02-2019, 10:28 AM)impactplaya Wrote: The thing with Cooper is that he made the Pro Bowl as a RETURNER.
he does a 103 yd return for a TD.
Erickson has done neither to this point.
Erickson is reliable but he is not EXPLOSIVE as a returner.
I don't have stats in front of me but I guessing Cooper might have more 40 yd plus
Returns than Erickson
ZT might be looking for more big plays in the return Game

RIGHT, and Coach Taylor saw his Pro Bowl year with LA RAMS.   and Perine Oklahoma Sooners all -time leading rusher ahead of Sims. 

Cooper is 24 and Perine is 23 and there were players drafted in 2019 that age, so these are like 2 extra draft picks, only better. One already in Pro Bowl.  YOUTH and TALENT just added to last place Bengals, and I'm all for it.  Both fill immediate needs. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-01-2019, 02:29 PM)Beaker Wrote: Cooper = see ya Josh Malone
Perine = RB depth until Williams comes back

I don't know...the whole reason they went with Malone over Core was vertical speed (supposedly) and Pharoh Cooper doesn't have that.  I can't even see him dressing game day.  

I like Perine as a short-term solution, though.  

[Socal Bengals fan]

I was at the playoff game Rams vs Falcons I believe Cooper fumbles 3 times in that game. I just recall the crowd booing him when he ran back onto the field in the 3rd quarter. Good times ahead.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-02-2019, 10:28 AM)impactplaya Wrote: The thing with Cooper is that he made the Pro Bowl as a RETURNER.
he does a 103 yd return for a TD.
Erickson has done neither to this point.
Erickson is reliable but he is not EXPLOSIVE as a returner.
I don't have stats in front of me but I guessing Cooper might have more 40 yd plus
Returns than Erickson
ZT might be looking for more big plays in the return Game

As a fair comparison, in 2017, here are the numbers; 

Kick returns: ---- Average: ----- Long: ----- 20+ ----- 40+ ----- TD -----Fumbles
Cooper - 34 -------27.4-----------103T--------29---------3----------1---------1
Erickson- 32 -------20.7------------41----------16---------1----------0---------1
Erick '18- 40 -------26.2------------77----------27---------5----------0---------0

Punt returns:-----Average:-------Long--------20+------40+--------TD------Fumbles
Cooper - 32 --------12.5-----------53-----------8---------2------------0---------2
Erickson- 39 ---------7.1-----------29-----------3---------0------------0---------4
Erick '18- 20 -------10.6-----------38-----------3---------0-------------0---------1

I'm gonna update this and add Erickson's 2018 to see how he compares with Cooper's All Pro season.

[kevin]

(09-02-2019, 10:42 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I don't know...the whole reason they went with Malone over Core was vertical speed (supposedly) and Pharoh Cooper doesn't have that.  I can't even see him dressing game day.  

I like Perine as a short-term solution, though.  

The 24 year old Cooper is a Pro Bowl kick returner.  Look for him to dress and play.  Pro Bowl Kick Returner, 24 years old, was with LA RAMS with Coach Taylor. 

23 year old Perine is Oklahome Sooners all -time rusher.  Like Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, Alabama, USC, Notre Dame and Oklahoma who have been running the ball centuries, a 23 year old all time rusher of Oklahoma is an interesting addition.  Anybody who leads these type schools in all-time rushing must have some game.  

I think these 2 players the age of 2019 draft picks could be more than short term solutions.  Don't be surprised if Cooper becomes Bengals kick returner for a few years.  Don't be surprised if Perine is in Bengals RB stable a few years.  Don't be surprised to see both play in Seattle game.