Andre Smith: Huge Improvement at Left Tackle

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-02-2019, 10:54 PM)Joelist Wrote: It feels sometimes like some of us here are invested in the idea of the team being bad, the OL being bad, etc.

We have new coaches and systems and we also brought in new starters at two OL positions (LG and RG) and a new starting Center to boot. Interior OL has been a persistent issue for the last several seasons of the Marvin era and so far ZT seems determined to get an effective group out there.

So far from what we have seen in preseason both new Guards are definite upgrades over what we ran out there last year and Hopkins played his way into the lineup. Also Hart seems to be responding to the new systems well. Let's wait and see how everything goes.

You know whats up brother.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-02-2019, 10:54 PM)Joelist Wrote: It feels sometimes like some of us here are invested in the idea of the team being bad, the OL being bad, etc.

We have new coaches and systems and we also brought in new starters at two OL positions (LG and RG) and a new starting Center to boot. Interior OL has been a persistent issue for the last several seasons of the Marvin era and so far ZT seems determined to get an effective group out there.

So far from what we have seen in preseason both new Guards are definite upgrades over what we ran out there last year and Hopkins played his way into the lineup. Also Hart seems to be responding to the new systems well. Let's wait and see how everything goes.

Just like some are invested in it being good.

I see what I see. You guys see what you see.

I don't look at any of our offensive lineman individually and think they are even average. Look, we couldn't even run the ball.

Plus, we see it every year where guys do good in preseason then are bad during the year. It doesn't always translate over. You see vanilla defenses.

I do hope we have a good season. I'm just not getting my hopes up.

[McC]

(09-02-2019, 10:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Then why are you apart of us sad folks RKR?

I like you but I like to be optimistic and PFF backs up my optimism. One of the best pass protecting O-lines this PS.

The proof is in the pudding and the pudding will soon be on the stove.

I don't know if the line will be good.  I just don't think it's inconceivable that they could be good enough and maybe even work their way up to good. 

Same goes for the whole team.  This coach is very precise and very focused and most of all, knows exactly what he wants.  I think he will show an ability to make chicken soup out of chicken shit and to stay calm.   He seems to have that thing about him that the big winners have. 

The best thing of all is we don't have much longer to wait and then we'll see one way or the other.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-02-2019, 11:04 PM)McC Wrote: The proof is in the pudding and the pudding will soon be on the stove.

I don't know if the line will be good.  I just don't think it's inconceivable that they could be good enough and maybe even work their way up to good. 

Same goes for the whole team.  This coach is very precise and very focused and most of all, knows exactly what he wants.  I think he will show an ability to make chicken soup out of chicken shit and to stay calm.   He seems to have that thing about him that the big winners have. 

The best thing of all is we don't have much longer to wait and then we'll see one way or the other.

No doubt my brother. We will see and we can debate about it after a meaningful game.

[samhain]

(09-02-2019, 08:58 PM)McC Wrote: The other linemen around him, his fellow linemen on the team have been saying a lot of good things about him, have been saying he looks ready. 

I know that, since it's the Bengals, it's easy to automatically assume a 4th round rookie lineman can't be good right away, but hell, maybe all these professionals are not just plain lying about him.   Maybe he will be a good player right off the bat.  It happens every year in the league.

When I was reading draft sites/publications, there were some pretty glowing reviews of MJ.  He seemed like a guy that people thought had all the tools to be good, but may have needed just a bit of seasoning.  No time like the present. His winning of the starting job is probably my favorite development this preseason.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-02-2019, 12:29 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: We know how it all started.  Remember?  Andre Smith at the combine with his massive man-boobs flapping, right?  He had some good years with the Bengals at right tackle as well as some underachieving seasons.  Andre spent time in Minnesota and Arizona and now he’s back in Cincinnati — at left tackle.

At left tackle Andre is a different player.  While he has always been terrific as a run blocker at either position, his pass protection is noticeably better at left tackle.  This makes sense because Andre played left tackle with the Crimson Tide and his platform and footwork reflect this.  At right tackle his pass protection techniques looked robotic to me but at left tackle his natural instinct comes through.

The Cincinnati offensive line isn’t going to be stellar in 2019 but in pass protection I see a huge improvement already.  Jim Turner has a very effective pass blocking technique which forms a pocket, moves the pocket, and sometimes expands the pocket.  The run blocking will improve as the season progresses and Andre Smith will be a big part of it.

One of my fav Andre Smith moments was a game against Philly, I believe, where he and a defensive lineman locked horns and their facemasks got locked together.  The guy on Philly pulled his head out of his helmet first and Andre stood there a moment with what looked like a conjoined twin sticking out of his helmet.

I have to give the Bengals credit on several things before the season even started:  They were proactive getting a lot of competition for Boling's spot:  Bringing in Jerry and drafting Jordan to compete with Westerman ended up with a very solid young guy that could be our LG for years to come.  And he will be on the cheap for some time.  Let's not forget the importance of that as they try to sign Green, Dalton, and Mixon.

They also brought in BW Webb for the slot CB position as Dennard was a question mark health-wise.  Turns out he was absolutely needed.

They also went out and signed several UDFA WRs to compete for the back of the roster spots and have a good competition that was ultimately won by Damian Willis.  Not saying the guy is AJ Green, but he is certainly better than what we had before backing up the spot.  

And although it really had a sad ending, the drafting of two RBs in Rd 6 was very smart.  If Anderson had stayed healthy, he looked like a steal (and maybe will be someday) but the depth here with Williams was smart as if they had only taken one and that player went down...

Lastly, the drafting of Sample.  He was thrown the ball just enough in the PS that opposing teams need to respect him as a threat, but he appears to be an excellent choice to stay in and help against some of the tougher DEs (Clowney?) and he can still slide out and be a checkdown for Dalton.  

The team seemed to be much better prepared heading in to the season with the lingering issues that could have been major problems if they didn't address them proactively.  

[THE PISTONS]

(09-02-2019, 11:04 PM)McC Wrote: The proof is in the pudding and the pudding will soon be on the stove.

I don't know if the line will be good.  I just don't think it's inconceivable that they could be good enough and maybe even work their way up to good. 

Same goes for the whole team.  This coach is very precise and very focused and most of all, knows exactly what he wants.  I think he will show an ability to make chicken soup out of chicken shit and to stay calm.   He seems to have that thing about him that the big winners have. 

The best thing of all is we don't have much longer to wait and then we'll see one way or the other.

It will be interesting to see how having an easier training camp works out too. Will they be fresher? Or will they not be used to physical play?

[Luvnit2]

(09-02-2019, 10:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Just like some are invested in it being good.

I see what I see. You guys see what you see.

I don't look at any of our offensive lineman individually and think they are even average. Look, we couldn't even run the ball.

Plus, we see it every year where guys do good in preseason then are bad during the year. It doesn't always translate over. You see vanilla defenses.

I do hope we have a good season. I'm just not getting my hopes up.

I thought Mixon led the AFC in rushing yards in 2018. You need an OL that can run block to accomplish that, certainly not an average or poor OL as you suggest every post.

[Luvnit2]

(09-02-2019, 11:04 PM)McC Wrote: The proof is in the pudding and the pudding will soon be on the stove.

I don't know if the line will be good.  I just don't think it's inconceivable that they could be good enough and maybe even work their way up to good. 

Same goes for the whole team.  This coach is very precise and very focused and most of all, knows exactly what he wants.  I think he will show an ability to make chicken soup out of chicken shit and to stay calm.   He seems to have that thing about him that the big winners have. 

The best thing of all is we don't have much longer to wait and then we'll see one way or the other.

We call this objective thinking. The fact is they were not close to being the worst offensive line in 2018, #1 rusher in AFC and AD was sacked less than a lot of team's QB's.

I think some just want their narrative so bad to be correct, they lose all objectivity. Our OL has 3 new starters in 2019, so 60% different. They may not be our favorites, but the are the coaches favorites so let's see how the coaches coach this OL to get results prior to calling them garbage, below average and labeling them good or bad. We will know the real truth soon and if horrible, then those who ae trashing them can say I told you so. If they are better than 2018, hopefully those same posters will say I was wrong.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-02-2019, 12:29 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: We know how it all started.  Remember?  Andre Smith at the combine with his massive man-boobs flapping, right?  He had some good years with the Bengals at right tackle as well as some underachieving seasons.  Andre spent time in Minnesota and Arizona and now he’s back in Cincinnati — at left tackle.

At left tackle Andre is a different player.  While he has always been terrific as a run blocker at either position, his pass protection is noticeably better at left tackle.  This makes sense because Andre played left tackle with the Crimson Tide and his platform and footwork reflect this.  At right tackle his pass protection techniques looked robotic to me but at left tackle his natural instinct comes through.

The Cincinnati offensive line isn’t going to be stellar in 2019 but in pass protection I see a huge improvement already.  Jim Turner has a very effective pass blocking technique which forms a pocket, moves the pocket, and sometimes expands the pocket.  The run blocking will improve as the season progresses and Andre Smith will be a big part of it.

I sure hope you're right, we need him to be in a bad way !

[THE PISTONS]

(09-03-2019, 10:14 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I thought Mixon led the AFC in rushing yards in 2018. You need an OL that can run block to accomplish that, certainly not an average or poor OL as you suggest every post.

Mixon makes a lot of yards on his own too...and it's not like he rushed for 1400+ yards. The AFC in general was down in rushing yards.

[McC]

(09-03-2019, 10:36 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Mixon makes a lot of yards on his own too...and it's not like he rushed for 1400+ yards. The AFC in general was down in rushing yards.

Mixon also missed two games.  And he averaged over 4.3 ypc.   Nothing wrong with telling the entire story.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-03-2019, 10:40 AM)McC Wrote: Mixon also missed two games.  And he averaged over 4.3 ypc.   Nothing wrong with telling the entire story.

And in person, I saw terrible blocking from the line and Mixon making insane cuts to gain yards. Mixon is insanely talented. The offensive line is not.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

how much of our bad run blocking had to do with no mixon or gio, starters on line not playing much, and our backups being terrible only time will tell. It seemed to me Zac was more concerned evaluating talent at receiver and QB. the rb's that made the team got less than 10 snaps all pre-season

[McC]

(09-03-2019, 10:43 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And in person, I saw terrible blocking from the line and Mixon making insane cuts to gain yards. Mixon is insanely talented. The offensive line is not.

Few are. 

Nobody can really know what this team will look like schematically as of Sunday because the brilliant new coach has basically shown nothing on either side of the ball.

[sandwedge]

(09-02-2019, 10:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Just like some are invested in it being good.

I see what I see. You guys see what you see.

I don't look at any of our offensive lineman individually and think they are even average. Look, we couldn't even run the ball.

Plus, we see it every year where guys do good in preseason then are bad during the year. It doesn't always translate over. You see vanilla defenses.

I do hope we have a good season. I'm just not getting my hopes up.

Nobody has said this line is good. Most are just rational enough to wait and actually see. They played better in PS, so I guess that's a step in the right direction, is it not? 

[sandwedge]

(09-03-2019, 08:32 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: One of my fav Andre Smith moments was a game against Philly, I believe, where he and a defensive lineman locked horns and their facemasks got locked together.  The guy on Philly pulled his head out of his helmet first and Andre stood there a moment with what looked like a conjoined twin sticking out of his helmet.

I have to give the Bengals credit on several things before the season even started:  They were proactive getting a lot of competition for Boling's spot:  Bringing in Jerry and drafting Jordan to compete with Westerman ended up with a very solid young guy that could be our LG for years to come.  And he will be on the cheap for some time.  Let's not forget the importance of that as they try to sign Green, Dalton, and Mixon.

They also brought in BW Webb for the slot CB position as Dennard was a question mark health-wise.  Turns out he was absolutely needed.

They also went out and signed several UDFA WRs to compete for the back of the roster spots and have a good competition that was ultimately won by Damian Willis.  Not saying the guy is AJ Green, but he is certainly better than what we had before backing up the spot.  

And although it really had a sad ending, the drafting of two RBs in Rd 6 was very smart.  If Anderson had stayed healthy, he looked like a steal (and maybe will be someday) but the depth here with Williams was smart as if they had only taken one and that player went down...

Lastly, the drafting of Sample.  He was thrown the ball just enough in the PS that opposing teams need to respect him as a threat, but he appears to be an excellent choice to stay in and help against some of the tougher DEs (Clowney?) and he can still slide out and be a checkdown for Dalton.  

The team seemed to be much better prepared heading in to the season with the lingering issues that could have been major problems if they didn't address them proactively.  

C'mon Racer, haven't you heard, Coach Taylor and crew are in way over their heads???      

[sandwedge]

(09-03-2019, 10:45 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: how much of our bad run blocking had to do with no mixon  or gio, starters on line not playing much, and our backups being terrible only time will tell. It seemed to me Zac was more concerned evaluating talent at receiver and QB. the rb's that made the team got less than 10 snaps all pre-season

I think they ran so little was because, 
A) to preserve them for the season, 
B) we didn't want to show any of our run blocking schemes. 

It was pretty much dives during PS and we already know what Joe and Gio can do.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-02-2019, 12:29 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: We know how it all started.  Remember?  Andre Smith at the combine with his massive man-boobs flapping, right?  He had some good years with the Bengals at right tackle as well as some underachieving seasons.  Andre spent time in Minnesota and Arizona and now he’s back in Cincinnati — at left tackle.

At left tackle Andre is a different player.  While he has always been terrific as a run blocker at either position, his pass protection is noticeably better at left tackle.  This makes sense because Andre played left tackle with the Crimson Tide and his platform and footwork reflect this.  At right tackle his pass protection techniques looked robotic to me but at left tackle his natural instinct comes through.

The Cincinnati offensive line isn’t going to be stellar in 2019 but in pass protection I see a huge improvement already.  Jim Turner has a very effective pass blocking technique which forms a pocket, moves the pocket, and sometimes expands the pocket.  The run blocking will improve as the season progresses and Andre Smith will be a big part of it.

So much for a move to LT making Smith a 'huge improvement'. Also the Turner 'effective pass blocking technique' to form a pocket seems to be a flop.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-03-2019, 10:50 AM)McC Wrote: Few are. 

Nobody can really know what this team will look like schematically as of Sunday because the brilliant new coach has basically shown nothing on either side of the ball.

I'm a bit underwhelmed by the 'brilliant' new coach's schemes so far.

The offense is very basic with little unpredictability.

The defense can't stop outside runs. Knowing this, they put an extra DT out there to plug up the middle...which doesn't help. Playing 2 LB's for 80% of the plays seems fundamentally flawed...and we probably need to consider playing 3.