How Much Power Does ZT Have?

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-04-2019, 03:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That would be a his track record as an OC says he doesn't make his teams better. Actually, he makes them worse.

He has 0 HC experience.

Right. So you haven't seen him on the sidelines as a HC. 

Copy that. 

[NKURyan]

(09-04-2019, 03:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The excuse at U of Cincy for having the 123rd ranked offense out of 128 was apparently that he didn't have good players.

Um... because he didn't have good players? Do you disagree?

As for why we'd expect more out of him here... because he actually has good players here?

I mean... is it that hard to figure out? 

We get it, you hate the ZT hire. You did this exact thread in April and you're doing it again now. I'm sure you're all kinds of pumped to log in at 8:00 on Sunday to trash his coaching. You do you, I guess. 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-04-2019, 04:57 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Um... because he didn't have good players? Do you disagree?

As for why we'd expect more out of him here... because he actually has good players here?

I mean... is it that hard to figure out? 

We get it, you hate the ZT hire. You did this exact thread in April and you're doing it again now. I'm sure you're all kinds of pumped to log in at 8:00 on Sunday to trash his coaching. You do you, I guess. 

I guarantee you that he had better than the 123rd ranked offensive roster in college football. He underperformed.

The issues this offseason were cited as injuries and coaching. We've had injuries. Now, it's being cited as an excuse that ZT failed in his previous OC stints because he didn't have talented players.

Well, do we have a talented roster? Our offensive line isn't talented. Our receivers other than Boyd and Green haven't produced.

Dalton is an average NFL QB. Mixon has a lot of talent.

[*Nately120*]

OOoh, I lost track of this thread...gotta catch up.

POINT - ZT is a breath of fresh air to a somewhat talented, but recently under performing franchise and it will be interesting to see what he does here

COUNTERPOINT - ZT's resume isn't exactly sterling, he's been promoted quite far above his prior position, and the guys he hired to prop him up have their own issues

[McC]

(09-04-2019, 05:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I guarantee you that he had better than the 123rd ranked offensive roster in college football. He underperformed.

The issues this offseason were cited as injuries and coaching. We've had injuries. Now, it's being cited as an excuse that ZT failed in his previous OC stints because he didn't have talented players.

Well, do we have a talented roster? Our offensive line isn't talented. Our receivers other than Boyd and Green haven't produced.

Dalton is an average NFL QB. Mixon has a lot of talent.

Wait...you're making a guarantee without knowing the details?  That definitely adds some perspective, doesn't it? 

[NKURyan]

(09-04-2019, 05:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I guarantee you that he had better than the 123rd ranked offensive roster in college football. He underperformed.

The issues this offseason were cited as injuries and coaching. We've had injuries. Now, it's being cited as an excuse that ZT failed in his previous OC stints because he didn't have talented players.

Well, do we have a talented roster? Our offensive line isn't talented. Our receivers other than Boyd and Green haven't produced.

Dalton is an average NFL QB. Mixon has a lot of talent.

Did you actually watch that team? As someone who actually follows the Bearcats and frequently attends their games, I sure as hell did. Go ahead and bring up that roster and point to the talent. Couple that with the fact the team was coached by a completely apathetic and uninterested Tommy Tuberville (who benched his senior QB for who knows why) and it's a no brainer that they'd struggle mightily. The team didn't exactly leap up the rankings the year after under a new coaching staff either (111th), but sure, go ahead and blame it on Zac.

ZT's taking over an offense with two 1000 yard receivers on offense, a pro bowl TE, a QB who has shown he can play at an MVP level, and the AFC's leading rusher. Yes there's talent there no matter how much you feel a need to downplay everything.

[NKURyan]

(09-04-2019, 05:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: OOoh, I lost track of this thread...gotta catch up.

POINT - ZT is a breath of fresh air to a somewhat talented, but recently under performing franchise and it will be interesting to see what he does here

COUNTERPOINT - ZT's resume isn't exactly sterling, he's been promoted quite far above his prior position, and the guys he hired to prop him up have their own issues

Gee, none of us had any idea Zac Taylor was so inexperienced when the Bengals brought him in. Thank God THE PISTONS is here to drop these key bits of knowledge on us days before the season starts.

Guess we'd better go ahead and fire him now. I'm sure we can get Hue Jackson and his wealth of experience on the line.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-04-2019, 06:24 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Gee, none of us had any idea Zac Taylor was so inexperienced when the Bengals brought him in. Thank God THE PISTONS is here to drop these key bits of knowledge on us days before the season starts.

Guess we'd better go ahead and fire him now. I'm sure we can get Hue Jackson and his wealth of experience on the line.

I'm glad that I can help you see the light. But, I think firing him would be extreme. Just temper expectations.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-04-2019, 06:21 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Did you actually watch that team? As someone who actually follows the Bearcats and frequently attends their games, I sure as hell did. Go ahead and bring up that roster and point to the talent. Couple that with the fact the team was coached by a completely apathetic and uninterested Tommy Tuberville (who benched his senior QB for who knows why) and it's a no brainer that they'd struggle mightily. The team didn't exactly leap up the rankings the year after under a new coaching staff either (111th), but sure, go ahead and blame it on Zac.

ZT's taking over an offense with two 1000 yard receivers on offense, a pro bowl TE, a QB who has shown he can play at an MVP level, and the AFC's leading rusher. Yes there's talent there no matter how much you feel a need to downplay everything.

Oh wow. So ZT is inheriting an MVP level QB, Pro Bowl TE, etc.

Dalton hasn't played at that level for what 3-4 years? Eifert is hugely overrated and has played in less than half of his games.

AJ Green is injury prone. Boyd and Mixon are good now and trending up.

And we have a bad offensive line.

[McC]

(09-04-2019, 11:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Oh wow. So ZT is inheriting an MVP level QB, Pro Bowl TE, etc.

Dalton hasn't played at that level for what 3-4 years? Eifert is hugely overrated and has played in less than half of his games.

AJ Green is injury prone. Boyd and Mixon are good now and trending up.

And we have a bad offensive line.

We might have a bad offensive. line.   It hasn't been proven yet one way or the other.  How many times has ZT made a point of saying that he hasn't been showing much on either side of the ball?  Maybe he's a stone faced liar, but he at least gets to be judged after the first game is played and not before.

And you keep bringing up how he has the Rams' offense.  Well, good.  I believe it got them to the SB, so why the hell not?  In a copycat league, copy a good one. 

Maybe you could stop judging him on three, four, five years ago, whatever it was and just for a moment consider that fact that he might be better now, that maybe some of Sean McVay rubbed off, for instance.   Coaches take pieces of everybody they work for and the good ones make it their own.   What if he ends up being one of those good ones?  How awful would that be? 

He's brand new.  Deal with it.   Maybe for once, take notice of what he's doing right now and forget about what happened in the past.  People do fail when they're young and then learn from it and go on and succeed, you know.  What was he, barely thirty?

The past is nothing more than the road that got him here.  it's not always the foretelling of the future that you seem convinced it is.  What's so wrong about having a little faith?

[NKURyan]

(09-04-2019, 11:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Oh wow. So ZT is inheriting an MVP level QB, Pro Bowl TE, etc.

Dalton hasn't played at that level for what 3-4 years? Eifert is hugely overrated and has played in less than half of his games.

AJ Green is injury prone. Boyd and Mixon are good now and trending up.

And we have a bad offensive line.

Poo poo them all you want, but it's not like the cupboard is as bare as you want to pretend it is. Put all five of those guys on the field at the same time and they've already shown that they can average more than 30 points a game behind that bad offensive line. Injuries may very well de-rail that before it's all said and done, but that's the NFL for ya. 

Completely ignored the meat of the post in order to keep up your little false narrative about his brief time at UC meaning something, too. Bravo!

[NKURyan]

(09-04-2019, 11:27 PM)McC Wrote: We might have a bad offensive. line.   It hasn't been proven yet one way or the other.  How many times has ZT made a point of saying that he hasn't been showing much on either side of the ball?  Maybe he's a stone faced liar, but he at least gets to be judged after the first game is played and not before.

And you keep bringing up how he has the Rams' offense.  Well, good.  I believe it got them to the SB, so why the hell not?  In a copycat league, copy a good one. 

Maybe you could stop judging him on three, four, five years ago, whatever it was and just for a moment consider that fact that he might be better now, that maybe some of Sean McVay rubbed off, for instance.   Coaches take pieces of everybody they work for and the good ones make it their own.   What if he ends up being one of those good ones?  How awful would that be? 

He's brand new.  Deal with it.   Maybe for once, take notice of what he's doing right now and forget about what happened in the past.  People do fail when they're young and then learn from it and go on and succeed, you know.  What was he, barely thirty?

The past is nothing more than the road that got him here.  it's not always the foretelling of the future that you seem convinced it is.  What's so wrong about having a little faith?

Pistons wants a veteran coach with ample experience and a highly impressive history as a coordinator. I guess out of all the candidates out there he would have hired... Hue Jackson.

He also never would've hired Sam Wyche as head coach either - too inexperienced! Only 3 years as an assistant in the NFL? And did you *see* how bad his Indiana Hoosiers were? Total bum, pass.

[McC]

(09-04-2019, 11:31 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Pistons wants a veteran coach with ample experience and a highly impressive history as a coordinator. I guess out of all the candidates out there he would have hired... Hue Jackson.

He also never would've hired Sam Wyche as head coach either - too inexperienced! Only 3 years as an assistant in the NFL? And did you *see* how bad his Indiana Hoosiers were? Total bum, pass.

And he was coming off a 3-8 record at Indiana.  If there had been a message board back then, it would have disintegrated.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-04-2019, 11:25 AM)McC Wrote: 123.  28.  123.  28.

Are those the numbers from Lost??

[Rubekahn29]

(09-04-2019, 03:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That would be a his track record as an OC says he doesn't make his teams better. Actually, he makes them worse.

He has 0 HC experience.

So does a majoriry of new HC in the NFL unless they were a HC in college. Do you expect every team to hire a coach who had been an NFL head coach before? That's is not quote how it works. 

[fredtoast]

(09-05-2019, 04:08 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: So does a majoriry of new HC in the NFL unless they were a HC in college. Do you expect every team to hire a coach who had been an NFL head coach before? That's is not quote how it works. 

But it is a little more rare to hire a HC who has never even been hired as an NFL Coordinator.

And I don't think I have ever heard of a team that hired an entire new staff (HC, coordinators, assistants) with not a single one of them ever at least being hired as an NFL Coordinator before.

[Nickslycat]

(09-04-2019, 06:21 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Did you actually watch that team? As someone who actually follows the Bearcats and frequently attends their games, I sure as hell did. Go ahead and bring up that roster and point to the talent. Couple that with the fact the team was coached by a completely apathetic and uninterested Tommy Tuberville (who benched his senior QB for who knows why) and it's a no brainer that they'd struggle mightily. The team didn't exactly leap up the rankings the year after under a new coaching staff either (111th), but sure, go ahead and blame it on Zac.

ZT's taking over an offense with two 1000 yard receivers on offense, a pro bowl TE, a QB who has shown he can play at an MVP level, and the AFC's leading rusher. Yes there's talent there no matter how much you feel a need to downplay everything.

Aj is going to miss games at least 4 games? He won’t be a 1000 yard receiver. Eifert was last relevant in 2015. Dalton will never be mvp. Mix on, while a great talent, takes to many hard shots. Please name any Offensive lineman on this roster who could start for any other team.

That’s just the offense. The defense was historically bad, what improvements have been made? Correct me if I’m wrong, but there are no new starters. At least Dolphins fans realize they are tanking.

[NKURyan]

(09-05-2019, 08:36 AM)Nickslycat Wrote: Aj is going to miss games at least 4 games?  He won’t be a 1000 yard receiver.  Eifert was last relevant in 2015.  Dalton will never be mvp.  Mix on, while a great talent, takes to many hard shots.  Please name any Offensive lineman on this roster who could start for any other team.  

That’s just the offense.  The defense was historically bad, what improvements have been made?  Correct me if I’m wrong, but there are no new starters.  At least Dolphins  fans realize they are tanking.

The team averaged more than 30 points a game last year when Green, Boyd, Eifert, Mixon, and Dalton were on the field together, and that was behind a bad offensive line.

Defense is a different matter since the original topic was ZT's ability to call an offense, but even then they have a lot of talent on that side of the ball. Last year is an outlier compared to previous years, so I'm thinking they bounce back to at least being average.

[Whatever]

(09-04-2019, 11:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm glad that I can help you see the light. But, I think firing him would be extreme. Just temper expectations.

I thought we weren't supposed to have expectations because the team hasn't won a playoff game for 20 some years under Mike Brown?  I'm confused.

[NKURyan]

(09-05-2019, 09:53 AM)Whatever Wrote: I thought we weren't supposed to have expectations because the team hasn't won a playoff game for 20 some years under Mike Brown?  I'm confused.

The people who criticize ZT's lack of experience,hate the hire, and bash the talent level of the team are the same ones saying we should be expecting 9-10 wins because hey, Marv was decent his first year and had them at 4-1 last year. They're bad, but they'd better be good or else. Crystal clear.