Tired of Model model?

[THE PISTONS]

(09-03-2019, 02:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: True.
WJ3 got hurt in camp though, not an injury when drafted.
Dennard was drafted with Jones, Kirkpatrick, and Newman all in front of him.
The Bengals were definitely guilty of drafting 1st round CBs with 2-3 good starters already on the team, which would make it hard for that player to get playing time.

Just like with Ross, the Bengals preemptively draft players sometimes to replace a starter in 2-3 years, therefore not contributing much early on. When Ross was drafted, the Bengals had Green, LaFell, and Boyd as the starting 3.

Still...the results have not been good. And I agree with you that that is their strategy.

If you don't use free agency to sign external impact players, it puts A LOT of pressure on drafting.

[fredtoast]

More teams use their first round pick on "future" starters than many people realize. Over the last ten seasons only a little more than half (179 of 320) of players selected in the first round start as many as ten games as a rookie.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-03-2019, 02:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: More than just those guys, we also got nothing from Dennard or WJIII in their rookie years.

The 2015 draft is catastrophic. CJ Uzomah is the only player still on the roster. You want your drafts from 4-5 years ago to form the foundation of a team.

The 2014 draft...only Dennard is still on the roster. He's been underwhelming too. He is a Nickel CB who doesn't get many interceptions.

2012 draft...only 1 player still on the roster in Kirkpatrick.

2011 draft...only Dalton and Green remain.

2010 draft...only Dunlap and Atkins.

That equates to a bunch of young guys forced to play.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-03-2019, 03:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The 2015 draft is catastrophic. CJ Uzomah is the only player still on the roster. You want your drafts from 4-5 years ago to form the foundation of a team.

The 2014 draft...only Dennard is still on the roster. He's been underwhelming too. He is a Nickel CB who doesn't get many interceptions.

2012 draft...only 1 player still on the roster in Kirkpatrick.

2011 draft...only Dalton and Green remain.

2010 draft...only Dunlap and Atkins.

That equates to a bunch of young guys forced to play.

Would you also agree that it also equates to a whole lot of draft failure?

[CJD]

(09-03-2019, 03:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Would you also agree that it also equates to a whole lot of draft failure?

Our drafting over the last decade has been, with a few notable exceptions, horrific.

Hopefully, this draft class is the start of a series of good choices. But I'm beginning to wonder if Tobin is the problem. We'll have to see how the 2019 class develops.

At least 2018 has shown promise, with the exception of the 3rd and 4th round picks that we've already given up on.

[ezekiel23]

O line is without question one of,if not thee most essential part of any NFL team.That said,I think our O line will be much improved this year.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-03-2019, 03:47 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Our drafting over the last decade has been, with a few notable exceptions, horrific.

Hopefully, this draft class is the start of a series of good choices. But I'm beginning to wonder if Tobin is the problem. We'll have to see how the 2019 class develops.

At least 2018 has shown promise, with the exception of the 3rd and 4th round picks that we've already given up on.

It's not normal to give up on your 3rd and 4th Round picks in a year. That's already a fairly bad draft class.

[fredtoast]

(09-03-2019, 07:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's not normal to give up on your 3rd and 4th Round picks in a year. That's already a fairly bad draft class.

It is only a bad class if you obsess on the bad and ignore all the positive in order to shit on the Bengals.

We still have 6 players from that draft on our roster including a safety who led all rookie DBs in tackles and was 3rd in interceptions and a DE who led all rookie d-linemen in sacks and was 3rd in tackles despite only playing about half of the defensive snaps.

But feel free to tell the Seahawks their 2010 draft "fairly bad" because they used 4th round picks on Walter Thurman and E. J. Wilson.

[*Nately120*]

(09-03-2019, 03:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The 2015 draft is catastrophic. CJ Uzomah is the only player still on the roster. You want your drafts from 4-5 years ago to form the foundation of a team.

The 2014 draft...only Dennard is still on the roster. He's been underwhelming too. He is a Nickel CB who doesn't get many interceptions.

2012 draft...only 1 player still on the roster in Kirkpatrick.

2011 draft...only Dalton and Green remain.

2010 draft...only Dunlap and Atkins.

That equates to a bunch of young guys forced to play.

Gio should be in here, he was the 2nd player we got via the Palmer trade, no?

[THE PISTONS]

(09-03-2019, 08:41 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Gio should be in here, he was the 2nd player we got via the Palmer trade, no?

Eifert, Bernard, and Shawn Williams were in 2013.

[RASCAL]

(09-03-2019, 11:53 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: As good as that OL has been the last few years they haven’t done much in the postseason.

Contrary to what some here believe it actually takes more than a dominant OL to win football games...

you're right on there. It also takes a great QB with brains that can back it up. that is something I personally don't think the cowgirls have!!! He can't carry any team!

[*Nately120*]

(09-03-2019, 09:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Eifert, Bernard, and Shawn Williams were in 2013.

Oh, gotcha.

[*jason*]

(09-03-2019, 08:41 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Gio should be in here, he was the 2nd player we got via the Palmer trade, no?

Yes... Gio was the 2nd round pick they got from that trade. Dre in 2012, and Gio the following year.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-03-2019, 03:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The 2015 draft is catastrophic. CJ Uzomah is the only player still on the roster. You want your drafts from 4-5 years ago to form the foundation of a team.

The 2014 draft...only Dennard is still on the roster. He's been underwhelming too. He is a Nickel CB who doesn't get many interceptions.

2012 draft...only 1 player still on the roster in Kirkpatrick.

2011 draft...only Dalton and Green remain.

2010 draft...only Dunlap and Atkins.

That equates to a bunch of young guys forced to play.

...and when you add this to our FA strategy, which involves rarely signing anyone worth a dang, you have our records over the last 3 years.

We rely 100% on the draft so we have no room for error...and we've had plenty of errors.

[t3r3e3]

(09-03-2019, 11:45 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Perhaps it's time to switch to the Jones model, the Jerry Jones model that is. All while Eliott has been holding out for a huge contract, the Cowboys have signed one of their LBs to a long term deal, and now just gave La'el Collins a 5 year extension. The Collins deal means that their already dominate OL are all under contract through the 2023 season, with Collins and LG Zach Martin both locked up through 2024.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/cowboys-lael-collins-agree-to-long-term-extension-through-2024/ar-AAGKc7S?ocid=spartanntp

Perhaps it's time for the Bengals front office to focus more on the fundamental building blocks of a team, like OL and LBs? Most of the time, the team that blocks and tackles better is going to win the game.

I would agree. Mike’s model has brought zero Playoff wins, zero Championships, and a .41 winning percentage. Jerry’s model won 4 titles and a boat load of Playoff wine, albeit most of which happened in the 90’s. That said, a dominant o line is generally a solid predictor of Playoff success. The Bengals line is terrible, as is their chances of making the Playoffs this year.

[t3r3e3]

(09-03-2019, 12:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: And, what gems they turned out to be..  And they already had Whitworth, who was already willing to keep playing for the Bengals.  Hell, in hindsight, the Bengals would have been much better off had they just admitted the error of drafting Ogbuehi, cutting their losses and paying Whitworth, who is still playing at a high level..



Don't you think it just a bit odd, that in a day and age of failing OL coming out of college, that the Cowboys have found the magic secret to picking the right ones?  They spend about the same picks on OL as the Bengals, but their picks have all seemed to develop well, while the Bengals picks continue to flounder.

In hindsight the ketchup model was not the best predictor of blocking success.

[*jason*]

(09-03-2019, 03:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The 2015 draft is catastrophic. CJ Uzomah is the only player still on the roster. You want your drafts from 4-5 years ago to form the foundation of a team.

The 2014 draft...only Dennard is still on the roster. He's been underwhelming too. He is a Nickel CB who doesn't get many interceptions.

2012 draft...only 1 player still on the roster in Kirkpatrick.

2011 draft...only Dalton and Green remain.

2010 draft...only Dunlap and Atkins.

That equates to a bunch of young guys forced to play.

I know the point of this post is to repeat that they don't do anything in FA, but going back almost a decade of drafts and pointing out how few players remain is weak. For instance... Not a single player from the Patriots 2011 draft is still on the roster. You'll find similar results by looking up just about anybody's draft classes from that far back. The average career is something like 3 years.

2015 draft was God awful... We all know that.

The 2012 draft produced Dre, Sanu, Marvin Jones, and George Iloka... All of whom had solid NFL careers. Yes... Only Dre remains, but that's not because that class was a dud like 2015 and to a lesser extent 2014.

[CJD]

(09-03-2019, 07:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's not normal to give up on your 3rd and 4th Round picks in a year. That's already a fairly bad draft class.

I understand that, but we also got a great young safety in Bates, a promising pass rusher in Hubbard and 3 young players that showed very well this preseason and look to get a good amount of snaps this year in Brown, Phillips and Tate.

I think the success of the class will rely heavily on what the hell is going on with Billy Price. I'd like to think he isn't so bad that he lost his starting job to an UDFA journeyman forever. Hopefully he recovers from whatever is ailing him and becomes an actual good center. Lord knows we haven't had one of those in over a decade.

It's going to be tough, but I think this class still has a chance to be a good one.