Bengals depth versus rest of the league

[Luvnit2]

The Bengals continue to distance themselves against the rest of the NFL in my opinion with our depth.

I know fans want 1st and 2nd round picks to be impact players immediately, but I love the fact our young draft picks are able to learn at practice, make mistakes at practice versus having to start or be a major contributor in week one.

Our bench has NFL starters/contributors everywhere in my opinion.
1. Dennard
2. Jake Fisher
3. Cedric O. (injured, but likely ready by week #7)
4. Dawson
5. Lewis-Harris
6. Alford
7. Little
8. Hunt
9. Thompson
10. Shaw

Edit: I would also add AJ McCarron. I feel he could start for some teams this year if they had him in their training camp this year.

These are all players who could help a lot of teams. Injuries will happen for every team. Would you like to be the Bengals FO right now or the teams in cap hell who can't afford to replace injured players with proven vets simply because they don't have the cash. These same teams have watched their depth disappear the past few years due to poor cap management.

I think of teams like the Broncos and the Colts with major OL issues and we have 2 potential OT's who are projected backups in 2015 who may be better than their starting OT's right now. The Colts chose to take Dorsett(WR) in round one versus Fisher. It may work out and I loved Dorsett potential, but in taking him in round #1, they lost out on every projected immediate starting OT in last year's draft.

Some may dish on Little, but he is only 26 years old, extremely athletic and has the tools to be a true #1 receiver which could come into play if AJ is hurt at all in 2015 (I hope not of course).

My point is the Bengals FO may be the best in the NFL since the new CBA was signed in 2011. They draft extremely well, they kept their own and they are great at cap management. Everyone said the Bengals cap management would suffer once we had to give the big contracts to AJ and Andy. To date, it has not. I know we have a ton of unsigned players in 2016, but we also have a ton of money due to Katie being masterful with structuring contracts.

Thoughts?

[Bengalstripes9]

One name you didn't mention on that list was Will Clarke, who had a sack this week. I haven't really seen Hunt on the field much at all this year, hoping he comes through as a rotational rusher.

Anyway, I agree that we have been very good at drafting and developing players since 2011. Basically all of our contributing defensive lineman are mid-round picks, which says a lot. That being said, I think the biggest test to the FO is how they handle all of the upcoming FA's this off-season. If we are able to move on, reload and resign successfully this off-season, there will be no doubting that we are one of the best managed teams in the league.

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-22-2015, 01:22 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The Bengals continue to distance themselves against the rest of the NFL in my opinion with our depth.

I know fans want 1st and 2nd round picks to be impact players immediately, but I love the fact our young draft picks are able to learn at practice, make mistakes at practice versus having to start or be a major contributor in week one.

Our bench has NFL starters/contributors everywhere in my opinion.
1. Dennard
2. Jake Fisher
3. Cedric O. (injured, but likely ready by week #7)
4. Dawson
5. Lewis-Harris
6. Alford
7. Little
8. Hunt
9. Thompson
10. Shaw

These are all players who could help a lot of teams. Injuries will happen for every team. Would you like to be the Bengals FO right now or the teams in cap hell who can't afford to replace injured players with proven vets simply because they don't have the cash. These same teams have watched their depth disappear the past few years due to poor cap management.

I think of teams like the Broncos and the Colts with major OL issues and we have 2 potential OT's who are projected backups in 2015 who may be better than their starting OT's right now. The Colts chose to take Dorsett(WR) in round one versus Fisher. It may work out and I loved Dorsett potential, but in taking him in round #1, they lost out on every projected immediate starting OT in last year's draft.

Some may dish on Little, but he is only 26 years old, extremely athletic and has the tools to be a true #1 receiver which could come into play if AJ is hurt at all in 2015 (I hope not of course).

My point is the Bengals FO may be the best in the NFL since the new CBA was signed in 2011. They draft extremely well, they kept their own and they are great at cap management. Everyone said the Bengals cap management would suffer once we had to give the big contracts to AJ and Andy. To date, it has not. I know we have a ton of unsigned players in 2016, but we also have a ton of money due to Katie being masterful with structuring contracts.

Thoughts?

Many people talk about the upcoming contracts as if they are new money on top of what is already being paid.  It's not... the player's current contract comes off the books.  Some people will actually make less than they currently do, some people the team will not even try to bring back.  Not to mention the salary cap is going to continue to rise because of new television deals.

There is no question at all, the Brown family knows how to run a business.  They are excellent business people.

[Luvnit2]

(09-22-2015, 01:31 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: One name you didn't mention on that list was Will Clarke, who had a sack this week. I haven't really seen Hunt on the field much at all this year, hoping he comes through as a rotational rusher.

Anyway, I agree that we have been very good at drafting and developing players since 2011. Basically all of our contributing defensive lineman are mid-round picks, which says a lot. That being said, I think the biggest test to the FO is how they handle all of the upcoming FA's this off-season. If we are able to move on, reload and resign successfully this off-season, there will be no doubting that we are one of the best managed teams in the league.

Good point about Clarke as he has been coming on.

I hope we have no injuries, but if we do, I feel we are better equipped each year. I don't think any team survives the number of injuries at our pass catching positions we endured in 2014. It was just a weird year watching Jones, Eifert, Green, Gresham, Wright, Smith (3rd TE) and others be gone during the year early or gone by the playoff game.

[Luvnit2]

(09-22-2015, 01:33 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Many people talk about the upcoming contracts as if they are new money on top of what is already being paid.  It's not... the player's current contract comes off the books.  Some people will actually make less than they currently do, some people the team will not even try to bring back.  Not to mention the salary cap is going to continue to rise because of new television deals.

There is no question at all, the Brown family knows how to run a business.  They are excellent business people.

I agree, there is no doubt in my mind being forced to spend their share of the league cap played a part, but once given the new rules, they have adapted and excelled while others have not. I see Ravens fans spout we lost guys because they did not want to overpay, I cite BS and say players are walking due to poor cap management which eventually can kill your depth and the quality of your starters.

[tigershrimp]

(09-22-2015, 01:22 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: My point is the Bengals FO may be the best in the NFL since the new CBA was signed in 2011. They draft extremely well, they kept their own and they are great at cap management. Everyone said the Bengals cap management would suffer once we had to give the big contracts to AJ and Andy. To date, it has not. I know we have a ton of unsigned players in 2016, but we also have a ton of money due to Katie being masterful with structuring contracts.

Thoughts?

The craziest thing about Mikey and the FO is...its heart. I'm sure Cincinnati isn't alone, but it sure seems like this team has made its living off of second chances, family values and blind loyalty.

[Luvnit2]

(09-22-2015, 01:41 PM)tigershrimp Wrote: The craziest thing about Mikey and the FO is...its heart. I'm sure Cincinnati isn't alone, but it sure seems like this team has made its living off of second chances, family values and blind loyalty.

Yeah, I have stated MB's loyalty can be a weakness, but no doubt is also a strength.

We don't take the chances (2nd chances) we once did via the draft. Thurman, Henry and others were the norm years ago in the draft also.

Now, we get a guy like Burfict via free agency (he was not drafted) because we take less risk and refuse to draft poor character or players with baggage. I think this is also a part of the revolving of the locker room. Whittworth has been stellar on the field and on the locker room, but it has helped him to better control it versus the past.

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-22-2015, 01:47 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Yeah, I have stated MB's loyalty can be a weakness, but no doubt is also a strength.

We don't take the chances (2nd chances) we once did via the draft. Thurman, Henry and others were the norm years ago in the draft also.

Now, we get a guy like Burfict via free agency (he was not drafted) because we take less risk and refuse to draft poor character or players with baggage. I think this is also a part of the revolving of the locker room. Whittworth has been stellar on the field and on the locker room, but it has helped him to better control it versus the past.

I think there is a fine line between it being a weakness or a strength.  There are many examples of it working both ways.

[tigershrimp]

(09-22-2015, 01:47 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We don't take the chances (2nd chances) we once did via the draft. Thurman, Henry and others were the norm years ago in the draft also.

Now, we get a guy like Burfict via free agency (he was not drafted) because we take less risk and refuse to draft poor character or players with baggage. I think this is also a part of the revolving of the locker room. Whittworth has been stellar on the field and on the locker room, but it has helped him to better control it versus the past.

It's amazing how Zimmer's "scrap heap" mentality took hold here and hasn't let up. First- and second-rounders abound, but they scrap like Vince Papale is watching.

[djs7685]

1. Dennard
2. Jake Fisher
3. Cedric O. (injured, but likely ready by week #7)
4. Dawson
5. Lewis-Harris
6. Alford
7. Little
8. Hunt
9. Thompson
10. Shaw

I'm pretty confused. We have some reasonable depth, but your reasoning and list just seems way off. Instead of naming actual solid depth, you listed a bunch of guys with basically no experience that wouldn't be starting on any NFL team right now. Dennard is good and Fisher seems fine, but the rest of your list is either 97% unproven, sucks, always inactive, or some combination of the the three.

Lamur isn't a starter on this team right now, and while he wasn't great last year he should definitely be considered a solid backup.

Pat Sims is a good backup.

Brandon Tate isn't amazing but he brings something to the table for a backup outside WR and is a STer.

Shawn Williams looked alright out there, and definitely deserved a mention over your super random inclusion of Shaw on your list when he has played ZERO snaps in the league.

Giovani Bernard is likely one of your better backup RBs in the NFL. How on earth is he not on this list???

Eric Winston is a serviceable backup for our line.

The premise of this thread is great but your post trying to explain why our depth is good makes almost no sense at all. You ran down a list of our backups in a thread regarding our great depth, yet you completely missed 6 of our best backups??? That's odd.

[Bengalstripes9]

(09-22-2015, 01:36 PM)Luvnit Wrote: I hope we have no injuries, but if we do, I feel we are better equipped each year. I don't think any team survives the number of injuries at our pass catching positions we endured in 2014. It was just a weird year watching Jones, Eifert, Green, Gresham, Wright, Smith (3rd TE) and others be gone during the year early or gone by the playoff game.

I'm sure we'll have to deal with injuries, I'm just hoping it's not as severe as last year. This year we are more equipped to deal with them. But obviously, we don't want any of our key players hurt. Last year there were just too many key players out, and even backups behind those key players.. We're still playing well without Burfict, but if we lost another key player or two I'd be getting nervous. I'm confident he'll be back and ready to go for the Steelers though, and be able to play into the post-season.

Our linebackers aren't really playing all that well without him; Burfict will definitely give that group a lift. I'm beginning to wonder if PJ Dawson might be better at playing the run than any of our starting three backers right now. He does need to gain some experience and more confidence from the coaching staff. But maybe they need to try him out so he can gain that experience in a game? Once he comes on, him and Burfict will be something special.

[Luvnit2]

(09-22-2015, 02:02 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I'm sure we'll have to deal with injuries, I'm just hoping it's not as severe as last year. This year we are more equipped to deal with them. But obviously, we don't want any of our key players hurt. Last year there were just too many key players out, and even backups behind those key players.. We're still playing well without Burfict, but if we lost another key player or two I'd be getting nervous. I'm confident he'll be back and ready to go for the Steelers though, and be able to play into the post-season.

Our linebackers aren't really playing all that well without him; Burfict will definitely give that group a lift. I'm beginning to wonder if PJ Dawson might be better at playing the run than any of our starting three backers right now. He does need to gain some experience and more confidence from the coaching staff. But maybe they need to try him out so he can gain that experience in a game? Once he comes on, him and Burfict will be something special.

Our defense showed some leaks last week no doubt. But, there are 2 teams playing the games. The Chargers offense may be one of the best in the NFL in 2015. Rivers is a stud, Allen is going to be great. Green has improved and Gordon and Woodhead are both very talented.

I was encouraged we gave up 2 fumbles around midfield, yet our defense only gave up 19 points against a smart and very talented vet QB.

We give up only 19 points, I love our chances to beat anyone.

[ItsOdellThurman]

Agree with the thread.

Disagree with the list.

A few of those guys barely made the roster and hardly play. Chris Lewis-Harris, Mario Alford and Margus Hunt wouldn't start on any other team. C'mon. Greg Little? I can't believe you even mentioned that.

[Bengalstripes9]

(09-22-2015, 02:11 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Our defense showed some leaks last week no doubt. But, there are 2 teams playing the games. The Chargers offense may be one of the best in the NFL in 2015. Rivers is a stud, Allen is going to be great. Green has improved and Gordon and Woodhead are both very talented.

I was encouraged we gave up 2 fumbles around midfield, yet our defense only gave up 19 points against a smart and very talented vet QB.

We give up only 19 points, I love our chances to beat anyone.

That's true, the Chargers offense is probably top 3 in the AFC. Our offense played pretty well against what I thought would be a tough secondary to exploit too.

Not letting them capitalize on the two fumbles was huge too, you're right. And the way we didn't really break in the red zone on the Charger's first couple drives was good to see too.

Like Marv said though, we could do better.

[Luvnit2]

(09-22-2015, 02:19 PM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: Agree with the thread.

Disagree with the list.

A few of those guys barely made the roster and hardly play.  Chris Lewis-Harris, Mario Alford and Margus Hunt wouldn't start on any other team.  C'mon.  Greg Little?  I can't believe you even mentioned that.

Lewis-Harris has performed well every time called upon. In a pass happy league, I have no doubt a team like the Steelers, Giants or Raiders would love him.

The same for Little, Cowboys (lost Dez), Panthers lost their number one and others would have Little starting if he were available to them right now in my humble opinion.

[ItsOdellThurman]

Contributing and starting are two different things.

...and sure, any player could start, but in how great of shape are they if the guy is starting? If Greg Little is a starting receiver, you might as well give up.

[GreenCornBengal]

This team will get a huge boost when Burfict comes back as well. The timing of the Burfict injury may turn out to be a blessing!

[ItsOdellThurman]

If it means we get a healthy Burfict at the very end of the year, I'd be cool with him being out until December.

[Luvnit2]

(09-22-2015, 03:19 PM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: Contributing and starting are two different things.

...and sure, any player could start, but in how great of shape are they if the guy is starting?  If Greg Little is a starting receiver, you might as well give up.

Fair enough, we disagree.

I have seen many players in many different sports thrive later in their careers. This is why I choose to not dismiss players as being done at age 26 with no room for improvement.

[Luvnit2]

(09-22-2015, 02:21 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: That's true, the Chargers offense is probably top 3 in the AFC. Our offense played pretty well against what I thought would be a tough secondary to exploit too.

Not letting them capitalize on the two fumbles was huge too, you're right. And the way we didn't really break in the red zone on the Charger's first couple drives was good to see too.

Like Marv said though, we could do better.

Yes, we can always do better. Any yes after we smoked the Raiders on the west coast ML said we could do better.