Should we tank with Dolphins

[740Bengal]

Winning Monday night will crush all of this tanking crap, we are going to get it right.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-27-2019, 10:17 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: dolphins belong in a tank.... tigers do not.

I’m calling PETA!

[fredtoast]

(09-27-2019, 10:13 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Plus, he's already got 1 more pick this year, than he did last year, in 4x the amount of games.

No one seems to know this.  Lawrence is looking very human this year.

[fredtoast]

(09-27-2019, 01:51 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I don't get trading stars especially if there under contract for multiple years ( Dunlap & Atkins) to get better. Top 100 Draft picks are 50/50 wether they work out or not and I imagine anything in the 4th Rd or after the chances get significantly worse to hit on a draft pick( duh). 
I just don't see the logic in it plus tanking just makes the process longer than it has to be

I agree with a lot of what you are saying.  Some people act like all you have to do to get a great QB is draft one early in the first round.  For some reason they remember every good first round pick and completely ignore all the bad ones.

But trading away older stars not only gets draft picks, it also creates more cap space to sign younger players.  They may cost almost as much as the vets they replace, but if they are younger you can build for the future instead of having to win now because the old guys are about to decline.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-27-2019, 11:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No one seems to know this.  Lawrence is looking very human this year.

Just waiting until 'bama reclaims top spot; I'm all for parity and having someone unseat the top dog, but Clemson fluked out one NC already and then last year, IMO, had just everything go right for the perfect season; I mean, they had 4 (5?) DL/EDGE drafted in the first round, this year.

If that doesn't scream, "stars aligning," I don't know what does.

Oh and Hunter Renfrow is terrible.

EDIT*: It was 3, my mistake. And 4 in total.

[SunsetBengal]

Well, I certainly hope that the Bengals have more fight in them than some of these fans calling for them to tank a season.

[XenoMorph]

(09-27-2019, 11:39 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m calling PETA!

I think ace ventura would be more appropriate in this case...

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-27-2019, 11:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree with a lot of what you are saying.  Some people act like all you have to do to get a great QB is draft one early in the first round.  For some reason they remember every good first round pick and completely ignore all the bad ones.

But trading away older stars not only gets draft picks, it also creates more cap space to sign younger players.  They may cost almost as much as the vets they replace, but if they are younger you can build for the future instead of having to win now because the old guys are about to decline.

A perfect example is the 2011 draft. 

QBs taken in rd1 and 2.
Cam Newton #1OA
Jake Locker #8
Blaine Gabbert #10
Christian Ponder #12
Andy Dalton #35 (2nd round)

Six guys to chose from and the Bengals got it right. Newton may have an MVP and played in a SB (where he was terrible), but his MVP season was his one great season and if Dalton had not been injured, he (likely) would have won that award (at the very least--he has a real shot). Take all of Newton's other problem's and...there's no way i want him over Dalton, even with Newton's superior running ability. The other guys are just flat out terrible. 

It's never (that i can remember) pointed out that the Bengals got it right in that draft regarding drafting a QB. 

[Luvnit2]

(09-27-2019, 12:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, I certainly hope that the Bengals have more fight in them than some of these fans calling for them to tank a season.  

In this thread, the vast majority are strongly against tanking, including me the OP.

I was just asking based on what Miami is doing, I have got my answer, few if any really support tanking. So, not sure who you are referring to???

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-27-2019, 12:31 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: A perfect example is the 2011 draft. 

QBs taken in rd1 and 2.
Cam Newton #1OA
Jake Locker #8
Blaine Gabbert #10
Christian Ponder #12
Andy Dalton #35 (2nd round)

Six guys to chose from and the Bengals got it right. Newton may have an MVP and played in a SB (where he was terrible), but his MVP season was his one great season and if Dalton had not been injured, he (likely) would have won that award (at the very least--he has a real shot). Take all of Newton's other problem's and...there's no way i want him over Dalton, even with Newton's superior running ability. The other guys are just flat out terrible. 

It's never (that i can remember) pointed out that the Bengals got it right in that draft regarding drafting a QB. 

I don’t think Dalton would have won MVP. Cam and the Panthers went 15-1.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-27-2019, 12:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t think Dalton would have won MVP. Cam and the Panthers went 15-1.

It's the dreaded hypothetical (isn't it always with the Bengals?), but if you just take his averages, his numbers would end up something like this. 
340/515 66.0% 4,333 8.4 33/9 106.2
Newton finished, 296/495 59.8% 3,837 7.8 35/10 99.4 (Newton did win the award finishing 8th in passer rating, so his record could have still put him over the top)

Sticking with the hypothetical, if they get over the hump against Pitt in the game he was injured, they finish 13-3 and who knows how the Denver game turns out. Then, with how close the playoff game was against Pitt...

None of it matters because it didn't happen (another Bengals theme   ), but we don't know for sure that it wouldn't have. 

Note: I know the Pitt playoff game wouldn't have mattered re: MVP, but dreamers will dream....even though i hate that and "hope". 

[corpjet]

#Yes

But beat the Squealers twice

[fredtoast]

I think most people have no problem with "tanking" if the team is horrible, say 5 wins or less, to begin with. At that point fans don't have a lot to lose if the team trades away stars and players younger guys.

The problem is when a team that seems to be able to finish at least 9-7 "tanks". And sometimes a 5 win team can luck into a couple of extra wins and be .500 (7-7 or so) late in the season. At that point fans have hope and oppose any talk of "tanking".

[*ochocincos*]

(09-27-2019, 12:54 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's the dreaded hypothetical (isn't it always with the Bengals?), but if you just take his averages, his numbers would end up something like this. 
340/515 66.0% 4,333 8.4 33/9 106.2
Newton finished, 296/495 59.8% 3,837 7.8 35/10 99.4 (Newton did win the award finishing 8th in passer rating, so his record could have still put him over the top)

Sticking with the hypothetical, if they get over the hump against Pitt in the game he was injured, they finish 13-3 and who knows how the Denver game turns out. Then, with how close the playoff game was against Pitt...

None of it matters because it didn't happen (another Bengals theme   ), but we don't know for sure that it wouldn't have. 

Note: I know the Pitt playoff game wouldn't have mattered re: MVP, but dreamers will dream....even though i hate that and "hope". 

If Bengals had just one more win that season, they would have been 1st place in the conference and would have had a bye week. They would have only ended up playing PIT if PIT won the WC game. Had that 1 win come against PIT, PIT would have not made the playoffs.

Oh, what could have been...

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-27-2019, 02:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If Bengals had just one more win that season, they would have been 1st place in the conference and would have had a bye week. They would have only ended up playing PIT if PIT won the WC game. Had that 1 win come against PIT, PIT would have not made the playoffs.

Oh, what could have been...

ANOTHER Bengals theme!!       

[Luvnit2]

(09-27-2019, 12:31 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: A perfect example is the 2011 draft. 

QBs taken in rd1 and 2.
Cam Newton #1OA
Jake Locker #8
Blaine Gabbert #10
Christian Ponder #12
Andy Dalton #35 (2nd round)

Six guys to chose from and the Bengals got it right. Newton may have an MVP and played in a SB (where he was terrible), but his MVP season was his one great season and if Dalton had not been injured, he (likely) would have won that award (at the very least--he has a real shot). Take all of Newton's other problem's and...there's no way i want him over Dalton, even with Newton's superior running ability. The other guys are just flat out terrible. 

It's never (that i can remember) pointed out that the Bengals got it right in that draft regarding drafting a QB. 

If you mean we passed on the other 5 versus AJ Green, I guess you are correct. But we would not have Green either.

None of them were available in round 2 when we picked, so we had no choice really.

 i like the Dalton pick and AD, but not sure we can give the team the credit when they really has no other real options other Kaep or Dalton in round 2 to start immediately (need).

[XenoMorph]

(09-27-2019, 05:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If you mean we passed on the other 5 versus AJ Green, I guess you are correct. But we would not have Green either.

None of them were available in round 2 when we picked, so we had no choice really.

 i like the Dalton pick and AD, but not sure we can give the team the credit when they really has no other real options other Kaep or Dalton in round 2 to start immediately (need).

don't forget a certain owner wanted to draft mallet not dalton

[fredtoast]

(09-27-2019, 05:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If you mean we passed on the other 5 versus AJ Green, I guess you are correct. But we would not have Green either.

None of them were available in round 2 when we picked, so we had no choice really.

 i like the Dalton pick and AD, but not sure we can give the team the credit when they really has no other real options other Kaep or Dalton in round 2 to start immediately (need).

You have to be kidding me.  We had NO quarterback for the 2011 season, yet we passed on three top ranked ones to take a WR.  Lots of people said that was a big mistake.  Then we get a Pro Bowl QB in the second round and we still "can't give the team the credit".

There is plenty of stuff to bash the Bengals for, but that does not mean you can't give them credit when they pull off a very gutsy draft strategy.

[*bfine32*]

(09-27-2019, 12:54 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's the dreaded hypothetical (isn't it always with the Bengals?), but if you just take his averages, his numbers would end up something like this. 
340/515 66.0% 4,333 8.4 33/9 106.2
Newton finished, 296/495 59.8% 3,837 7.8 35/10 99.4 (Newton did win the award finishing 8th in passer rating, so his record could have still put him over the top)

Sticking with the hypothetical, if they get over the hump against Pitt in the game he was injured, they finish 13-3 and who knows how the Denver game turns out. Then, with how close the playoff game was against Pitt...

None of it matters because it didn't happen (another Bengals theme   ), but we don't know for sure that it wouldn't have. 

Note: I know the Pitt playoff game wouldn't have mattered re: MVP, but dreamers will dream....even though i hate that and "hope". 

I think Cam's rushing number cannot be ignored

[*Nately120*]

(09-27-2019, 06:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have to be kidding me.  We had NO quarterback for the 2011 season, yet we passed on three top ranked ones to take a WR.  Lots of people said that was a big mistake.  Then we get a Pro Bowl QB in the second round and we still "can't give the team the credit".

There is plenty of stuff to bash the Bengals for, but that does not mean you can't give them credit when they pull off a very gutsy draft strategy.

Dalton was the right choice, but it's hard to give our FO credit for being gutsy because the term "gutsy" indicates a sense of risk or daring.  Mike Brown isn't going to get fired for taking the wrong QB, so nothing about what he does is gutsy.  So I'll admit he was right to take Dalton whether it was his idea of Gruden's, but I won't call it gutsy, per se.