Top 4 in draft so far thoughts
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Top 4 in draft so far thoughts
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10-07-2019, 02:44 PM
(10-04-2019, 04:07 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I understand Chase Young has talent but my goodness if the Cincinnati Bengals take him over an offensive tackle people will go nuts here Normally I would, but Jonah Williams is going to be playing next year, so I could live with it. I would be ok with taking Young and getting a RT in round 2. It all depends on how things shake out, but knowing Mike Brown, I can't see them passing on a QB if they are drafting 1 or 2. 
10-07-2019, 03:45 PM
(10-07-2019, 02:44 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Normally I would, but Jonah Williams is going to be playing next year, so I could live with it. Bengals need a franchise QB. Cannot avoid this need. They will go QB round 1 I think. ![[Image: maXCb2f.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/maXCb2f.jpg) -Paul Brown “When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less.” My album "Dragon" https://www.humbert-lardinois.com/ ![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png) 
10-07-2019, 04:20 PM
(10-07-2019, 03:45 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Bengals need a franchise QB. Cannot avoid this need. They will go QB round 1 I think. We are more than one year/draft away from being competent. Ideally there would be a sell off of assets that could allow us to take someone like Young and then get a QB in the 12-18 range. Most would argue QB is the last piece to a rebuild to get, but if you think a QB is graded as Elite and not just Elite for this class you get them.
10-07-2019, 04:28 PM
(10-07-2019, 04:20 PM)Au165 Wrote: We are more than one year/draft away from being competent. Ideally there would be a sell off of assets that could allow us to take someone like Young and then get a QB in the 12-18 range. Most would argue QB is the last piece to a rebuild to get, but if you think a QB is graded as Elite and not just Elite for this class you get them. I wish it were that easy. We are talking about a team that is fairly passive during the draft process and when they do make trades during the draft, they sell low and buy high. Most perennial good teams have a franchise QB. I would normally agree start with the trenches first. But the Bengals historical under value O-Line prospects. I thought this was Paul Alexander problem but evidently it goes deeper... If the Bengals go 2-14 this year, they need to select that Franchise QB. Now if they can get Thomas or Simmons by trading back and somehow get Burrow or Tua than fine. I think Tua will win the Heisman and will be the first QB off the boards. I think Burrow will go 2nd. Makes me think They need to pull the trigger early. If the Bengals can tank again next year and get Lawrence than fine. But he is not as accurate as I thought thus far. -Paul Brown “When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less.” My album "Dragon" https://www.humbert-lardinois.com/
10-07-2019, 04:33 PM
(10-07-2019, 04:28 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I wish it were that easy. We are talking about a team that is fairly passive during the draft process and when they do make trades during the draft, they sell low and buy high. Most perennial good teams have a franchise QB. I would normally agree start with the trenches first. But the Bengals historical under value O-Line prospects. I thought this was Paul Alexander problem but evidently it goes deeper... I'm telling you how you build a winning team today, not back in 1990. You add the QB last because you need a rookie deal for your QB to pay what should be the big pieces around them. If you add the QB first, by the time you get the pieces around them they are trending towards their big pay day and you start losing the pieces around them. This is how Steelers did it with Ben, How 49ers did it with Kap, how the Eagles won a SB (I know wentz was hurt for playoffs), how LA got to the SB, how Seattle won a super bowl, this is how Carolina made a SB, and so on. Unless you draft a sure fire hall of famer who is elite out the gate, which this class doesn't have, then you need to have most the team set when the QB gets there otherwise you have to really get creative with cap management, and that ain't us either. The easy route you discuss is going QB first because that is the easiest for fans to stomach. Recent history shows us that isn't how you build a contender today. Hell you cold argue Cleveland did it right getting the core in place then bringing Baker in and finishing it off with vets.
10-07-2019, 04:55 PM
(10-07-2019, 04:33 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'm telling you how you build a winning team today, not back in 1990. You add the QB last because you need a rookie deal for your QB to pay what should be the big pieces around them. If you add the QB first, by the time you get the pieces around them they are trending towards their big pay day and you start losing the pieces around them. This is how Steelers did it with Ben, How 49ers did it with Kap, how the Eagles won a SB (I know wentz was hurt for playoffs), how LA got to the SB, how Seattle won a super bowl, this is how Carolina made a SB, and so on. Unless you draft a sure fire hall of famer who is elite out the gate, which this class doesn't have, then you need to have most the team set when the QB gets there otherwise you have to really get creative with cap management, and that ain't us either. I think Burrow is the real deal. I mean, there is a lot of tape on this guy and he makes some amazing throws. If the Bengals pass this year on QB, then they better get one of those good ones next 2021 draft... I do not think Finley is the answer but one never knows...I really think he is a natural in the pocket. Cannot teach intangibles that he has demonstrated. -Paul Brown “When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less.” My album "Dragon" https://www.humbert-lardinois.com/
10-07-2019, 05:06 PM
(10-07-2019, 04:33 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'm telling you how you build a winning team today, not back in 1990. You add the QB last because you need a rookie deal for your QB to pay what should be the big pieces around them. If you add the QB first, by the time you get the pieces around them they are trending towards their big pay day and you start losing the pieces around them. This is how Steelers did it with Ben, How 49ers did it with Kap, how the Eagles won a SB (I know wentz was hurt for playoffs), how LA got to the SB, how Seattle won a super bowl, this is how Carolina made a SB, and so on. Unless you draft a sure fire hall of famer who is elite out the gate, which this class doesn't have, then you need to have most the team set when the QB gets there otherwise you have to really get creative with cap management, and that ain't us either. Ok I thought about it for a minute. What you said makes sense. QB are approaching 30 mil per year which is insane. My only concern is that given this teams historic penchant for skilled player positions at CB, WR, TE that they will skip over the good DL and OL prospects in the upcoming drafts for rebuild. -Paul Brown “When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less.” My album "Dragon" https://www.humbert-lardinois.com/ 
10-10-2019, 04:28 PM
(10-03-2019, 08:53 AM)Au165 Wrote: I actually like Sam Ehlinger a lot if he comes out. He is what Josh Allen would be if Allen was accurate. If he leaves, he will leave as a 3 year starter who got considerably more accurate each season. He has a powerful arm and is a big bodied guy who will run over defenders when he needs to pick up a couple yards. Yea I like Ehlinger too..I dont think hes getting enough spotlight because hes got that Tim Tebow comparison hanging over his head.
10-11-2019, 12:27 AM
The QB doesn't need to be the last piece. If you have a roster good enough to support a QB, then you aren't going to be drafting in the top 10-15.
You can't tell me that the following offense wouldn't be a great start: QB - 1st round pick (Tua, Herbert, Eason, Burrow) RB - Mixon WR - Green, Ross, Boyd TE - Eifert, Uzomah LT - Jonah Williams LG - C - Hopkins RG - Miller RT - It shouldn't be that hard to find a good LG and RT in the draft and free agency. This offense isn't that far away. 
10-11-2019, 01:02 AM
(10-02-2019, 04:40 PM)3wt Wrote: Chase young is the only one good enough to be taken that high. And I don't think we'll pick high enough for him. We always manage to start winning at the end of disastrous seasons. Give it time. When the combine rolls around, the top 4 will inevitably be elevated and over-valued just like always. You can usually set your watch by it. "The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
10-11-2019, 01:52 AM
These days teams are more inclined to go after the QB, when they get the chance.
In 2019, the top 3 Qbs taken, Murray (1), Jones (6) and Haskins (15), went to teams that had bottom half Pass Blocking Efficiency lines the year before. Arizona was even #32. Granted, some of that has to go on the previous QB. In 2018, the top 4 QBs taken, Mayfield (1), Darnold (3), Allen (7) and Rosen (10), went to teams that had bottom half PBE lines, with the exception of Buffalo who was #2. In 2017, the top 3 QBs taken, Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10) and Watson (12), went to teams that had PBE lines that ranked #7 (CHI), #4 (KC) and #27 (HST). In 2016, the top 2 QBs taken, Goff (1) and Wentz (2), went to teams that had bottom half PBE lines, though PHI was ranked #16. So while it may be smarter to build the line first, it's not necessarily what teams do these days (9 bottom half, 3 top half). These days, teams love them some "franchise QBs", regardless of what's around them. "The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
10-11-2019, 02:11 AM
Just as an addendum, to add some context, the year that QB was taken, the lines went from (year before, to);
2019: ARI from #32 to #5, NYG from #25 to #13 and WSH from #20 to #21 (though Haskins has played sparingly). 2018: CLE from #21 to #4, NYJ from #26 to #14, BUFF from #2 to #12 and ARI from #31 to #32. 2017: CHI from #7 to #18, KC from #4 to #8 and HST from #27 to #32. 2016: SL #21 to #25(LA) and PHI from #16 to #6. "The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
10-11-2019, 12:07 PM
(10-04-2019, 11:58 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Yeah but that shouldn't have a factor either way. I think the Bengals should address O-Line in free agency instead of waiting for it in the draft. If the coached wanted an OT in free agency, Mike Brown will sign Marshall Newhouse to a 3 year deal. 
10-11-2019, 03:05 PM
(10-07-2019, 04:55 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think Burrow is the real deal. I mean, there is a lot of tape on this guy and he makes some amazing throws. If the Bengals pass this year on QB, then they better get one of those good ones next 2021 draft... I'm a Burrow fan too. I love Finley's intangibles but he has a noodle for an arm. If they take Burrow or Tua I'll be good with it. If they take Young I'll be fine with that too. But despite the Hammerstripe's hilarious dead cat bounce analogy I think the Bengals have just enough on offense that when we get Green (and later Williams and Ross) back I think we'll get ourselves back down to the low part of the top ten players and miss out on all those players. It's been a trend of ours. |
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