Akili Smith trade redo

[J24]

(10-06-2019, 10:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: HELL NO!

We need high end talent. If we’re going to miss let’s do it on a top pick that nobody can blame us for taking.

Damn the Bengals really broke your fandom

[*Nately120*]

(10-06-2019, 10:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: HELL NO!

We need high end talent. If we’re going to miss let’s do it on a top pick that nobody can blame us for taking.

People abandon that "can't blame ya for taking him" mentality pretty quickly if you draft a bust.  There was a lot of high praise for guys like Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russel and Rick Mirer and so on.  Once they bust people seem to forget that you "couldn't blame teams for taking them."

Oh how about the amazing o-line led draft where Fisher and Joeckel were taken 1 and 2. That was a no-brainer for teams looking to get their trenches set for a decade.

[Bengalstripes9]

Depends who is available to pick, And who we think would be available to pick with the picks being offered. We need OL an LB. if there are elite players where we are picking at OL or LB, pick them. If not, a trade down would make sense since we need multiple players. But maybe there is an elite player at 3 from another position group you just cant pass up. Too many factors, would have to be closer to draft time to evaluate.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Here’s the thing: The scouts correctly identified players like Jake Fisher, Billy Price, Cedric Ogbuehi, Joe Mixon, and Jonah Williams as “high end talent.” These were men among boys in college who were on competitive teams. Now, in Cincinnati, they mysteriously regress. That’s on the coaches.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-06-2019, 10:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: People abandon that "can't blame ya for taking him" mentality pretty quickly if you draft a bust.  There was a lot of high praise for guys like Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russel and Rick Mirer and so on.  Once they bust people seem to forget that you "couldn't blame teams for taking them."

Oh how about the amazing o-line led draft where Fisher and Joeckel were taken 1 and 2. That was a no-brainer for teams looking to get their trenches set for a decade.

At least there was a time the pick seemed like a good idea. Did we get any praise for John Ross?

[*Nately120*]

(10-06-2019, 10:39 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Here’s the thing:  The scouts correctly identified players like Jake Fisher, Billy Price, Cedric Ogbuehi, Joe Mixon, and Jonah Williams as “high end talent.”  These were men among boys in college who were on competitive teams.  Now, in Cincinnati, they mysteriously regress.  That’s on the coaches.

There is still lots of hope for Jonah, but that is also a bit of a bummer if "he hasn't played for the Bengals yet" is the best source of hope that a guy can be good.

[Bilbo Saggins]

The best possible outcome is to try to trade a top 5 draft pick to a team that may crash and burn for some of their current draft picks + one of their future first round picks.  That way you may wind up trading down this year and wind up right back at the top of the draft in a year or two's time.  You'd need a trading partner, you'd need to project many variables, and you'd need at least a little bit of luck for that scenario to work out, but damn that'd be some sweet sweet nectar if you pulled that off and drafted well with those picks.

[*Nately120*]

(10-06-2019, 10:40 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: At least there was a time the pick seemed like a good idea. Did we get any praise for John Ross?

Ross going in round 1 wasn't insane, but we had bigger issues and even right off the bat I think he was overshadowed by Mahommes being "a possible next Favre who can sit behind ultra solid Alex Smith in the amazing Reid system."

[Nicomo Cosca]

If you’re picking top 3 you go QB. Period. Especially when Washington or the NYJ won’t be taking one.

I don’t want to look for bargain bin deals in later rounds when it’s the most important position. Don’t **** around.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-06-2019, 10:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ross going in round 1 wasn't insane, but we had bigger issues and even right off the bat I think he was overshadowed by Mahommes being "a possible next Favre who can sit behind ultra solid Alex Smith in the amazing Reid system."

Him going top 10 was though. Most had him late teens or twenties.

[J24]

(10-06-2019, 10:43 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If you’re picking top 3 you go QB. Period. Especially when Washington or the NYJ won’t be taking one.

I don’t want to look for bargain bin deals in later rounds when it’s the most important position. Don’t **** around.

This is what I have a problem with; if you feel like the guy is a franchise QB ok fine but if you're just drafting a guy just because he is a QB then you will ultimately fail him and the franchise.
We need multiple players( hopefully we use free agency as well and not the draft) at LB and Oline in particular. 
QB might be the most important position but it's not the only position.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-06-2019, 10:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So the Falcons offered the Bengals a trade for the pick that turned into AJ Green. They offered the same trade to the Browns.

Essentially the Browns traded Julio Jones for a bunch of draft picks that turned into sucky players.

They could have also turned Julio Jones into... Andy Dalton (9 picks after Atlanta's 2011 1st), Randall Cobb (5 picks after Atlanta's 2011 2nd), Julius Thomas (5 picks after Atlanta's 2011 4th), David DeCastro (2 picks after Atlanta's 2012 1st), and Mike Daniels (more of a stretch at 14 picks after Atlanta's 2012 4th).

If you're a bad drafter, it doesn't matter how many picks you get. If you're a good drafter, those picks could really change your franchise. 

Julio Jones is probably going to the HoF, but the Falcons had an awful lot of talent surrounding him when he entered the league. Who knows how he would have responded to going to a bad team instead of an offense that already had Matt Ryan, Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez, and Michael Turner. That's an MVP, 1st Team All-Pro, GOAT Hall of Famer, and 1st Team All-Pro, respectively, that he got to join.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-06-2019, 11:26 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: This is what I have a problem with; if you feel like the guy is a franchise QB ok fine but if you're just drafting a guy just because he is a QB then you will ultimately fail him and the franchise.
We need multiple players( hopefully we use free agency as well and not the draft) at LB and Oline in particular. 
QB might be the most important position but it's not the only position.

Unless it’s an extremely weak class (like 2011) chances are if you get one of the top guys he at the very least has potential to be a franchise QB. It’s worth the risk, imo.

[BengalChris]

(10-06-2019, 09:57 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I'm assuming that everyone is on board with us being a top 3 pick and I'm also sure people are aware of what happened between the Bengals & Saints in the draft. When the Saints offered a huge deal for the #3 pick but the Bengals turned it down.
So my question is this if the Bengals are offered a huge deal for that Pick. Do you think the Bengals would accept it? Also would you want the Bengals to accept the Deal?

What made that "no" trade so bad was that the Bengals picked Akili Smith.

But the reason Mike Brown didn't accept the trade is because he was sold on one year wonder Smith. Why, no one is really knows for sure. The offense Smith ran in college didn't translate to the NFL and the guy was as intelligent as a calculator without buttons for half the numbers.

Coslet wanted to take the trade and use the picks to rebuild the aging offensive and defensive lines.

Today, we have a similar situation, accept it's not age, but a lack of talent on the OL and LBers.

 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-06-2019, 10:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: People abandon that "can't blame ya for taking him" mentality pretty quickly if you draft a bust.  There was a lot of high praise for guys like Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russel and Rick Mirer and so on.  Once they bust people seem to forget that you "couldn't blame teams for taking them."

Oh how about the amazing o-line led draft where Fisher and Joeckel were taken 1 and 2.  That was a no-brainer for teams looking to get their trenches set for a decade.

Kiper had Ryan Leaf ranked ahead of Peyton Manning.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-06-2019, 10:30 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: We don't know about this year yet they haven't given any of the guys a chance to play.
We have drafted good players you just happened to pick the bad ones to make your point.

I get it the team sucks right now but not everything they do is terrible it's just the things that they don't do make them terrible.

So the rookies just can't break into the lineup on our stacked 0-5 team?

[THE PISTONS]

Falcons make blockbuster deal with Browns, move up for Julio Jones - (This same deal was available to the Bengals. Of course, we would have passed on AJ Green to take it.)

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f8c399/article/falcons-make-blockbuster-deal-with-browns-move-up-for-jones

[TKUHL]

The Saints (Ditka) offered up the entire draft that season, 99 I think. A first round pick in 2000, another 1st in 2001 and a 2nd in 2002. Yes you take that offer and run with it. Unless your the Bengals.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-07-2019, 01:10 PM)TKUHL Wrote: The Saints (Ditka) offered up the entire draft that season, 99 I think. A first round pick in 2000, another 1st in 2001 and a 2nd in 2002. Yes you take that offer and run with it. Unless your the Bengals.

We supposedly got offerred 2 1sts, a second- and fourth-round picks this year and fourth-round selections in 2012 from the Falcons for AJ Green.

The Browns took the offer. The guys they drafted...were terrible:

1. [b]NT Phil Taylor, 21st overall, 2011:[/b] The Browns swung a deal with the Kansas City Chiefs to move up and select Taylor. His rookie year was his best, but injuries have cost him the better part of two of the last three seasons. The first-round selection of Danny Shelton this year and Taylor’s slow recovery from last year’s season-ending knee injury ultimately led to his undoing.

2. [b]WR Greg Little, 59th overall, 2011:[/b] Little actually had more receptions (61) than Jones (54) during their rookie seasons, and they both had 41 catches in 2013 — except Jones only played in five games compared to Little’s full season. Little is currently fighting for a roster spot in Cincinnati, where he caught six balls for 69 yards last season.
3. [b]RB Owen Marecic, 124th overall, 2011:[/b] Marecic was released by the Browns after two seasons and ended up retiring a few months later after failing to catch on with the 49ers. Marecic re-enrolled at San Francisco State University and planned to attend medical school, according to this interview with the Performance Training Center.  
4. [b]QB Brandon Weeden, 22nd overall, 2012:[/b] Released after two seasons of mediocrity in Cleveland, Weeden now serves as Tony Romo’s backup in Dallas. Not much else to say here.
5. [b]RB Trent Richardson, 3rd overall, 2012[/b] [b](Cleveland used the fourth-round pick from Atlanta to move up one spot and select Richardson)[/b]: Released. Again. By the Raiders. Richardson may have a hard time finding another NFL job after he was dismissed by Oakland this week. He struggled mightily in two seasons in Indianapolis, which gave up a first-round pick to Cleveland for his services in September 2013. All is not lost on this front, however. The Browns used Indy’s first-round pick to select . . . Johnny Manziel. 

[J24]

(10-07-2019, 12:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So the rookies just can't break into the lineup on our stacked 0-5 team?

IDK why they aren't playing(particularly Pratt) but just cause there not doesn't make them bad or good.