"We're not trading that guy"

[Catmandude123]

(10-11-2019, 07:29 AM)Synric Wrote: Larry earned 11 mil as salary those years but those werent his cap hits. In 2016/2017 it was 15.8mil 2018 16.8 mil.
https://overthecap.com/player/larry-fitzgerald/408/

In comparison AJ Greens base salary was actually less...He earned an average of 10mil a year but his cap hits were 13mil ish for 2016 2017 2018 and 15mil for 2019.
https://overthecap.com/player/a-j-green/156/

AJ Green's deal was more team friendly.

Last five years LF 57mill AJ 60 mill. Salary per game played LF 69 of 69 games played. AJ 50 of 69 games played. Lf has played twice as many seasons as AJ and has missed a total of 6 games. Apple and oranges.

[XenoMorph]

(10-10-2019, 09:25 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Fitz resigned for 11 mil guaranteed . AJ got 32 mil guaranteed on his last contract. No way he should get anywhere near that this contract.IMO

Yeah well last Fitz signed he was about AJs age now I believe or older.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-10-2019, 06:16 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I do not know if a NT should be part of the core unless he is an all pro type.  Billings is good, but I do not know if he is all pro good.  

Depends on the price. Billings, while not a completely dominant NT, has performed admirably and is worth keeping around. Josh Tupou is also about to hit FA so the Bengals won't have a true NT on the roster and likely have to draft one, using up precious draft capital that could go to another position instead. 

[XenoMorph]

(10-11-2019, 09:59 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Depends on the price. Billings, while not a completely dominant NT, has performed admirably and is worth keeping around. Josh Tupou is also about to hit FA so the Bengals won't have a true NT on the roster and likely have to draft one, using up precious draft capital that could go to another position instead. 

Wren isn't a NT?

[*ochocincos*]

If AJ is not traded, then...
1) Get him extended. No point in allowing him to hit FA and get, at best, a 2021 3rd round comp pick.
2) Actually go all-in for the next two years and get (at least) 3 upper-tier FAs (at least one LB and OT) if any hit the market. None of this "our drafted players have to develop" crap.

[XenoMorph]

(10-11-2019, 10:06 AM)ochocincos Wrote: "our drafted players have to develop" crap.

this is required for any team to succeed.  cant afford a team on all vet contracts.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-11-2019, 10:05 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Wren isn't a NT?

Didn't realize he was, but according to depth chart he's 3rd NT. But I'm not holding out hope for a 4th round draft pick who has an abysmal 39.2 PFF score and was known to be a huge project when drafted. I'm fine with Wren taking Tupou's spot though, but this team will be even worse if the starting NT is Tupou or Wren.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-11-2019, 10:09 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: this is required for any team to succeed.  cant afford a team on all vet contracts.

While true, the Bengals put too much emphasis on it and have failed with a vast majority of their recent draft picks. They need to quit getting middle-of-the-road vets and hope that all these draft picks blossom into something special. It's not going to happen.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-11-2019, 08:27 AM)jason Wrote: The leading the AFC in rushing is a talking point more than it's some great accomplishment. Le'Veon Bell didn't play, Melvin Gordon got injured, Nick Chubb didn't start getting a healthy workload til the season was half over. Kareem Hunt didn't finish the season... And Elliot, Kamara, and Gurley are in the NFC. But yes; he lead the AFC in rushing.

Trying to downplay what he accomplished behind our insanely bad OL is pretty silly.

It was a downright Herculean effort to rush for 1k+ yds with that line. You obviously just don’t like the guy, which is fair, but c’mon...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-11-2019, 08:40 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: If they don't re-sign AJ and all we get out of this is a comp pick, I'm going to piss on every Chevy Lumina I see. And in North Central Florida, I see a few.

I'll leave a letter of apology on each windshield that says "Sorry, Mike Brown made me piss on your car."

Mike Brown in a Big Lebowski wheelchair...

“Everytime a Lumina is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the person?”

[WeezyBengal]

(10-10-2019, 06:08 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: This is what happens you have have a young idealistic coach that sees the Bengals as a 3-2 team and not 0-5.  His assessment is based on potential so that it supports the confirmation bias that things are working.  

Things are NOT working and changes need to be made.  

Dalton is not the answer at QB now and Dalton will not be the answer in the future.  Jonah Williams is a unknown and fans do not know what he brings under Turner.  The O-Line and backers and apparently the secondary are a mess.  The team does not have sound fundamentals and there is no gap integrity by either line.  

If Taylor were to realistically assess the Bengals, and wants to win, he needs to have an understanding of core players and how to look in the future so that the team can win.  Dalton and Green are not the future and are past their prime.  

There are only three players on the team that are keepers in my eyes and that is Mixon, Bates, and Boyd.  Maybe WJ3, and he has regressed.  Maybe Hopkins but he gets no push at LOS.  I like Billings but I do not know if he is part of the core.  The rest are expendable.

I agree with pretty much everything said here. 

The window for this team has closed. It has too many holes on it to compete currently or next year. The SMART thing that this organization could do is to start selling off expensive assets and start gathering picks for a rebuild. Not sign an injury prone veteran wide receiver past his prime to a huge, expensive extension. 

Its so disappointing to see no vision or direction for this team. I could handle how bad they are this year if they were making strides towards rebuilding for the next good Bengals team but it just isn't happening. 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-11-2019, 10:41 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I agree with pretty much everything said here. 

The window for this team has closed. It has too many holes on it to compete currently or next year. The SMART thing that this organization could do is to start selling off expensive assets and start gathering picks for a rebuild. Not sign an injury prone veteran wide receiver past his prime to a huge, expensive extension. 

Its so disappointing to see no vision or direction for this team. I could handle how bad they are this year if they were making strides towards rebuilding for the next good Bengals team but it just isn't happening. 

The Window closed 3 years ago. It's airtight now.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-11-2019, 10:45 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Window closed 3 years ago. It's airtight now.

I dunno if the window really closed in 2016. They lost Smith, Jones, and Sanu after 2015 but did get Brandon LaFell, who put up nearly 900 yards. The big issues that happened that year were having Zampese as OC, putting Ogbuehi at RT, and the critical injuries to AJ and Eifert.

I agree though, there are so many weak spots right now that the window is likely closed.
LT, LG, RT for sure. Need to fill two of those with *good* starters.
QB could improve with one who can extend plays to allow more time for receivers to get open.
TEs not utilized enough in the passing game and not blocking well enough in the running game.
Health of the WRs is a big issue.
Need better performance by the DL, especially if any of Dunlap, Atkins, Hubbard, or Lawson is hurt. They need to stop with the jumbo DL deployment. It's too slow to stop anything in the modern NFL.
LB is the weakest position on the team right now. Both Vigil and Brown need replaced. Hopefully by season's end Pratt proves he's worthy of claiming a starting role.
DBs are surprisingly underperforming. I wouldn't have pegged Kirkpatrick as the top performing DB right now.
K obviously needs replaced.

Out of all that, the Bengals need:
2 OL (absolute)
2 LBs (absolute)
1 K (absolute)
1 DL
1 WR
1 DB
QB (if franchise-caliber QB available)

That's 9 replacements and they only will have 7 draft picks. And you can't really count for any draft pick after 4th round to be a good starter (aside from K). Yes, every now and then you find one but it gets more rare the later rounds you draft. So even if the Bengals assume they'll get competent starters in the first 4 rounds of the draft, they need to be active in FA with proven above-average-at-least guys. No more of this bargain-bin value shopping hoping a once-good player just had a bad year or bad luck with injury and will turn it around.

[MEBengalsFan]

(10-10-2019, 05:49 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Even if AJ had played in all 5 games this season, and performed to his typical standards of production, some fans would still be griping.  They would just be saying "But he's missed 14 of the last 38 games.  We can't give that guy $18M/per, he might stub his toe and miss a few games.  THEN where would we be??"

Easy...Boyd is an elite and #1 receiver; his numbers this year and last year are making valid points for that. That said having another true #1 should help the offense out. The issue isn't the WR but AD and his lack of awareness. Those issues won't go away if the coaches are not working with AD to resolve them. 

[*Nately120*]

(10-11-2019, 10:45 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Window closed 3 years ago. It's airtight now.

I can't see the future, but I'd be a little surprised if we didn't just stay the course and extend AJ and roll into next year with him and Dalton and the notion that we can't waste our single high pick on a QB when everything is "impossible" due to our o-line being so bad.  

[fredtoast]

(10-10-2019, 08:58 PM)Jason Wrote:  Boyd can't move the needle by himself. He needs a true number 1 opposite of him.

Boyd is currentl 6th in the league in receptions and 9th in receiving yards.

(10-10-2019, 08:58 PM)jason Wrote: Mixon is a dime a dozen player, 

 

Yeah, right, any bum could lead the conference in rushing behind that great O-line the Bengals had last year.

[HuDey]

I’m ok with extending Green at a reasonable rate but I worry about that leading to a Dalton extension and the much needed rebuild getting pushed another 3 years down the road.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

The Bengals are not smart enough to trade AJ.

[XenoMorph]

(10-11-2019, 12:44 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: The Bengals are not smart enough to trade AJ.

Or they are smart enough not to Trade AJ....  

While winning it all is the ultimate goal... the weekly goal is butts in seats and that wont get better if they trade aj away.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(10-11-2019, 12:52 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Or they are smart enough not to Trade AJ....  

While winning it all is the ultimate goal... the weekly goal is butts in seats and that wont get better if they trade aj away.

I don’t know of one person who goes to Bengals games to see AJ Green. Just saying.