Maybe QB isn't our biggest problem?

[THE PISTONS]

(10-13-2019, 08:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not too bad in pass protection. Terrible run blocking. Dalton missed several throws when he had plenty of time.

Which is a great point. Even when pass pro is adequate, the offense still is bad.

The running game...I know the line is bad, but I feel like some of the issue is scheme, and some is the RB's.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-13-2019, 08:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Heh...I was going to mention that.

IF you put a Good QB on an average team, he makes them better.

I know people say 'No QB could succeed behind this line'...but there are times when there were guys open that he just missed. Like the throw I think it was last week to Eifert in the endzone. 2 feet to the left and it's a TD.

It's quite possible that he doesn't have the arm to succeed in Taylors offense. But also, we have basically very few personnel suited to this scheme...and the coaches can't adjust.

The back shoulder throw to Tate is nice for instance...but they then tried it over and over and over. It will get picked off for a TD here soon.

Yeah. Tate bailed him out a few times. A LOT of his throws today were terrible. And he's missed plenty of open guys when he had a good line...

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-13-2019, 08:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Which is a great point. Even when pass pro is adequate, the offense still is bad.

The running game...I know the line is bad, but I feel like some of the issue is scheme, and some is the RB's.

At this point, i'm convinced that they believe if they hit that square peg hard and often enough (runs up the middle) it WILL go in a round hole. 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-13-2019, 08:19 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yeah. Tate bailed him out a few times. A LOT of his throws today were terrible. And he's missed plenty of open guys when he had a good line...

Which is the deal with Dalton. Once you surround him with great talent, he becomes the issue of why you can't get to a SB.

[Bengalholic]

The time has come for the QB to be replaced...but I definitely agree he isn't our biggest issue.

This team can't block or tackle, can't run or stop the run, can't assemble a quality o-line, can't stop opposing TE's, etc, etc, etc.

I'm all for replacing Andy, but they need to damn well be very serious and laser focused about fixing glaring issues like o-line and LBer at the same time, or we'll be venting about the same shit next year and beyond...new QB or not.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-13-2019, 08:24 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The time has come for the QB to be replaced...but I definitely agree he isn't our biggest issue.

This team can't block or tackle, can't run or stop the run, can't assemble a quality o-line, can't stop opposing TE's, etc, etc, etc.

I'm all for replacing Andy, but they need to damn well be very serious and laser focused about fixing glaring issues like o-line and LBer at the same time, or we'll be venting about the same shit next year and beyond.

I've said it over and over and i'll keep saying it till i'm blue in the face, then i'll say it some more. A QB can change an entire teams fortunes, on offense and defense. He is the biggest difference maker on the field, bar none. 

Now, i agree Dalton isnt' the biggest problem on this team. BUT (let's talk about your big butt, Simone), you can work on other pieces of the team over time when you have a good QB. It's much harder to ugrade 4-9 positions and THEN go after a QB, due to FA/contracts plus hit/miss of the draft and FA. 

You CAN replace one guy who CAN make a big difference. 

The great thing is...if you miss on that guy...you can get another one!!! And that's still only 2 guys. And if that guy doesn't work, you can get another one!! And that's STILL only 3 guys, which is less than the 4-9 i referenced before!

P.S. I'm not yelling at you. This post is more me talking out loud to anyone that is having trouble hearing what i'm saying.

[cincyfan429]

The O-Line is the biggest problem, but not being able to stop the run is a close second.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-13-2019, 08:34 PM)cincyfan429 Wrote: The O-Line is the biggest problem, but not being able to stop the run is a close second.

Is the o-line the biggest problem? They did pass block well some games and we didn't win.

It appears that the biggest problem changes from game to game.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-13-2019, 08:30 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I've said it over and over and i'll keep saying it till i'm blue in the face, then i'll say it some more. A QB can change an entire teams fortunes, on offense and defense. He is the biggest difference maker on the field, bar none. 

Now, i agree Dalton isnt' the biggest problem on this team. BUT (let's talk about your big butt, Simone), you can work on other pieces of the team over time when you have a good QB. It's much harder to ugrade 4-9 positions and THEN go after a QB, due to FA/contracts plus hit/miss of the draft and FA. 

You CAN replace one guy who CAN make a big difference. 

The great thing is...if you miss on that guy...you can get another one!!! And that's still only 2 guys. And if that guy doesn't work, you can get another one!! And that's STILL only 3 guys, which is less than the 4-9 i referenced before!

P.S. I'm not yelling at you. This post is more me talking out loud to anyone that is having trouble hearing what i'm saying.

But...but we’ll turn into Cleveland!

News flash people, we already ARE. We’ve pretty much swapped places with them. They mediocre with flashes of being kinda good, and we’re awful, and can’t even win a game.

[Bengalholic]

(10-13-2019, 08:30 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I've said it over and over and i'll keep saying it till i'm blue in the face, then i'll say it some more. A QB can change an entire teams fortunes, on offense and defense. He is the biggest difference maker on the field, bar none. 

Now, i agree Dalton isnt' the biggest problem on this team. BUT (let's talk about your big butt, Simone), you can work on other pieces of the team over time when you have a good QB. It's much harder to ugrade 4-9 positions and THEN go after a QB, due to FA/contracts plus hit/miss of the draft and FA. 

You CAN replace one guy who CAN make a big difference. 

The great thing is...if you miss on that guy...you can get another one!!! And that's still only 2 guys. And if that guy doesn't work, you can get another one!! And that's STILL only 3 guys, which is less than the 4-9 i referenced before!

P.S. I'm not yelling at you. This post is more me talking out loud to anyone that is having trouble hearing what i'm saying.

I agree that a talented QB can potentially change the trajectory of an organization...but the organization has to be willing to do what it takes to make that QB successful. When you say "you can work on other pieces" - well, how long will that take with a franchise that still isn't willing to be buyers in the free agent market, who have not had great success with their last few drafts and who's current roster is littered with problems? 

Say we take a Tua, Hebert or whoever. How much of an impact will he make if the o-line is still shit, they can't run consistently, can't tackle, get pressure, make proper adjustments, have more subpar drafts, continue to sign lower-tier FA's???

Again, I'm all for replacing Andy, but replacing the QB - on this particular team - is just one piece of a very big, problem filled puzzle, no matter how good he is. Like I said, if they replace Andy and don't do the other things that are desperately needed...then we will be nothing more than a team with a talented QB surrounded by a lot of other problems.

I would love to see them not only replace Andy, but be extremely serious and aggressive about fixing this roster. I was hopeful we would see a step in that direction this offseason with the new HC and staff, but it was more of the same...with Hart, Miller, Webb and Wynn being the crown jewels of the offseason. 

I guess what I'm saying is that the front office needs to get off their complacent asses and get serious about building a winner. No more interviews about how they want to win, no more letters to fans about how they are trying to win...just go out and do what it takes to make this franchise successful and quit settling for "occasionally good" as the goal.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-13-2019, 08:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Is the o-line the biggest problem? They did pass block well some games and we won.

It appears that the biggest problem changes from game to game.

LB and Oline kind of run neck in neck for the biggest problem. 

Lemme tell you though. As usual with this team, probably, theee biggest problem has been injuries (plus a retirement). 

Put Jonah at LT. Put Glenn at RT. Put Boling at LG. Put AJ in the starting lineup. Are we looking at a 0-6 team? I doubt it. 

A better, higher scoring offense keeps the D off the field more and scores more points. Shootouts may be necessary but at least the pieces are there to pull it off, e.g., Atlanta last year.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-13-2019, 08:48 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I agree that a talented QB can potentially change the trajectory of an organization...but the organization has to be willing to do what it takes to make that QB successful. When you say "you can work on other pieces" - well, how long will that take with a franchise that still isn't willing to be buyers in the free agent market, who have not had great success with their last few drafts and who's current roster is littered with problems? 

Say we take a Tua, Hebert or whoever. How much of an impact will he make if the o-line is still shit, they can't run consistently, can't tackle, get pressure, make proper adjustments, have more subpar drafts, continue to sign lower-tier FA's???

Again, I'm all for replacing Andy, but replacing the QB - on this particular team - is just one piece of a very big, problem filled puzzle, no matter how good he is. Like I said, if they replace Andy and don't do the other things that are desperately needed...then we will be nothing more than a team with a talented QB surrounded by a lot of other problems.

I would love to see them not only replace Andy, but be extremely serious and aggressive about fixing this roster. I was hopeful we would see a step in that direction this offseason with the new HC and staff, but it was more of the same...with Hart, Miller, Webb and Wynn being the crown jewels of the offseason. 

I've put my plan out there. It does require FA in a way the Bengals have never done it before though. And it would require trading someone of value. 

Get a QB at the top of 1. Use the pick from the trade, or if it's too low, use that plus another to move up far enough to get Kindley, the OG from GA. Cut guys like Hart (or keep him as a backup if possible--but i'd prolly cut him), Andre. Move Dre...my God, somehow some way, move Dre!! Cut the bottom half of the LBs (teehee, there aren't really enough LBs to cut)...basically, shave off some fat on the D side. Shave off some fat on the O side and then throw money at Jack Conklin and Corey Littleton. Use the draft to get more OL, LB and CB. 

Jonah, Kindley, Hopkins, ?, Conklin is your oline. Top 5 QB is behind center, or Finley (IF THEY WOULD EVER PLAY HIM TO SEE IF HE'S VIABLE) and let the rookie acclimate for the season or longer (of course there's no need for a top 5 QB if Finley plays well enough). Sign Hopkins (of course), extend Mixon. That's AJ, Boyd, Ross (if he can stay healthy), Tate as your top 4 WRs. Mixon and Gio. Plenty of Dline to choose from. Pratt (if he's worthy) and Littleton are the top 2 LBs. Preston would probably play better with these 2 around him. Vigil is a freaking backup at best if he's not cut. DD, WJ3 and Phillips are the top 3 CBs. Sign the winner of the 1 legged man in a butt kicking contest as the new kicker and there you are. 

Of course, you would have to pray for health next year to have all those guys on the field...but it looks like the beginnings of a pretty good team, in just one offseason, if you ask me. 

[Bengalholic]

(10-13-2019, 09:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I've put my plan out there. It does require FA in a way the Bengals have never done it before though. And it would require trading someone of value. 

Get a QB at the top of 1. Use the pick from the trade, or if it's too low, use that plus another to move up far enough to get Kindley, the OG from GA. Cut guys like Hart (or keep him as a backup if possible--but i'd prolly cut him), Andre. Move Dre...my God, somehow some way, move Dre!! Cut the bottom half of the LBs (teehee, there aren't really enough LBs to cut)...basically, shave off some fat on the D side. Shave off some fat on the O side and then throw money at Jack Conklin and Corey Littleton. Use the draft to get more OL, LB and CB. 

Jonah, Kindley, Hopkins, ?, Conklin is your oline. Top 5 QB is behind center, or Finley (IF THEY WOULD EVER PLAY HIM TO SEE IF HE'S VIABLE) and let the rookie acclimate for the season or longer (of course there's no need for a top 5 QB if Finley plays well enough). Sign Hopkins (of course), extend Mixon. That's AJ, Boyd, Ross (if he can stay healthy), Tate as your top 4 WRs. Mixon and Gio. Plenty of Dline to choose from. Pratt (if he's worthy) and Littleton are the top 2 LBs. Preston would probably play better with these 2 around him. Vigil is a freaking backup at best if he's not cut. DD, WJ3 and Phillips are the top 3 CBs. Sign the winner of the 1 legged man in a butt kicking contest as the new kicker and there you are. 

Of course, you would have to pray for health next year to have all those guys on the field...but it looks like the beginnings of a pretty good team, in just one offseason, if you ask me. 

I appreciate the thought you put into your plan brother, but I don't see the bold ever happening as long as the "family" is in charge. 

[bengalsfansince93]

Did you ever think we can’t run because Andy can’t pass and keep the chains moving consistently??

[J24]

(10-13-2019, 07:57 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: About 95% of this organization sucks ass. 

But...riddle me this. How can the LBs suck more ass when they held the Ravens to 20 pts up to nearly the very end of the game...and the offense only scored 10 pts...including a TD near the very end of the game?

40 minutes of possession the offense didn't have the ball that long.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-13-2019, 09:55 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 40 minutes of possession the offense didn't have the ball that long.

Was any of that due to an inability to make first downs and extend drives, potentially lengthening the ToP?

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-13-2019, 09:13 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I appreciate the thought you put into your plan brother, but I don't see the bold ever happening as long as the "family" is in charge. 

True. At least in typical Bengals fashion, they'll do it at a snails pace...so in 10 years they'll be into signing guys like Conklin and Littleton. 

[J24]

(10-13-2019, 10:01 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Was any of that due to an inability to make first downs and extend drives, potentially lengthening the ToP?

They gave up 200 + yards on the ground for the third time this season . You're not going to win many games doing that. 
Andy isn't the answer (especially at his price) but my God we need to stop  the run. It's like ground hog day every Sunday since 2017 no LB core and No offensive line.

[Bengalholic]

(10-13-2019, 10:07 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: They gave up 200 + yards on the ground for the third time this season . You're not going to win many games doing that. 
Andy isn't the answer (especially at his price) but my God we need to stop  the run. It's like ground hog day every Sunday since 2017 no LB core and No offensive line.

I posted stats a couple weeks back about how bad they've been against the run over the last 3 plus years. 

It's just hard to watch at this point...getting ran all over again and again.

[*Synric*]

This offseason will be a good chance to replace a middling QB...but the Bengals biggest issue on offense is the line.