Looking Back

[Luvnit2]

We are a team that builds primarily through the draft and FA, a look at why our OL and talent is below par. I like looking forward, but this is a main reason why we are where we are today. Our talent is lacking, the OL is in a shambles.

We panicked and drafted Whitt's replacements too soon setting the stage for his departure. The void has never been fixed.

We had a choice of 2 guards, Zeitler (we chose) or DeCastro who most said was a can't miss. DeCastro is one of the best guards in football, Zeitler was good and never great. How good would our OL have been adding DeCastro with Whitt.

We could have drafted Mahomes or Watson instead of John Ross. The Chiefs and a QB named Smith, but decided to draft another QB and traded up for Mahomes.

Those are just 3 huge misses off the top of my head. 2 would have fixed our OL.

I also see teams like the Steelers take unknowns like the current LT and make them stars. So, yes coaching also an issue.

Who do you have that would make our roster more talented but we did not draft?

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-14-2019, 04:50 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We are a team that builds primarily through the draft and FA, a look at why our OL  and talent is below par. I like looking forward, but this is a main reason why we are where we are today. Our talent is lacking, the OL is in a shambles.

We panicked and drafted Whitt's replacements too soon setting the stage for his departure. The void has never been fixed.

We had a choice of 2 guards, Zeitler (we chose) or DeCastro who most said was a can't miss. DeCastro is one of the best guards in football, Zeitler was good and never great. How good would our OL have been adding DeCastro with Whitt.

We could have drafted Mahomes or Watson instead of John Ross. The Chiefs and a QB named Smith, but decided to draft another QB and traded up for Mahomes.

Those are just 3 huge misses off the top of my head. 2 would have fixed our OL.

I also see teams like the Steelers take unknowns like the current LT and make them stars. So, yes coaching also an issue.

Who do you have that would make our roster more talented but we did not draft?

I agree with this.  It goes back to Tobin and the lack of a true GM that knows football.  But it also goes to using coaches as scouts and having one of the smallest if not the smallest scouting departments in the NFL.  

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2019, 04:50 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We are a team that builds primarily through the draft and FA, a look at why our OL  and talent is below par. I like looking forward, but this is a main reason why we are where we are today. Our talent is lacking, the OL is in a shambles.

We panicked and drafted Whitt's replacements too soon setting the stage for his departure. The void has never been fixed.

We had a choice of 2 guards, Zeitler (we chose) or DeCastro who most said was a can't miss. DeCastro is one of the best guards in football, Zeitler was good and never great. How good would our OL have been adding DeCastro with Whitt.

We could have drafted Mahomes or Watson instead of John Ross. The Chiefs and a QB named Smith, but decided to draft another QB and traded up for Mahomes.

Those are just 3 huge misses off the top of my head. 2 would have fixed our OL.

I also see teams like the Steelers take unknowns like the current LT and make them stars. So, yes coaching also an issue.

Who do you have that would make our roster more talented but we did not draft?

Well...they wouldn't pay a Guard big bucks and let Zeitler leave. They would have likely let DeCastro walk too.

And, the entire defense looks terrible too. You've just addressed the offense.

But, yes the Steelers have a career backup starting at Tackle for them from some D2 school...and they have given up the least sacks in the NFL.

[Luvnit2]

(10-14-2019, 04:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well...they wouldn't pay a Guard big bucks and let Zeitler leave. They would have likely let DeCastro walk too.

And, the entire defense looks terrible too. You've just addressed the offense.

But, yes the Steelers have a career backup starting at Tackle for them from some D2 school...and they have given up the least sacks in the NFL.

Their LT is rated 4th best OT in the NFL

Zeitler did not earn a big contract, DeCastro did. We drafted the wrong guy and all of the experts had it right but us.

[fredtoast]

(10-14-2019, 04:59 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Zeitler did not earn a big contract, DeCastro did. We drafted the wrong guy and all of the experts had it right but us.

Zeitler was an excellent OG.  Even if you argue that DeCastro was better it wasn't by a lot.

If people think drafting Zeitler was one of our biggest mistakes I'll take several of those every year please.

[*bfine32*]

(10-14-2019, 04:50 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We are a team that builds primarily through the draft and FA, a look at why our OL  and talent is below par. I like looking forward, but this is a main reason why we are where we are today. Our talent is lacking, the OL is in a shambles.

We panicked and drafted Whitt's replacements too soon setting the stage for his departure. The void has never been fixed.

We had a choice of 2 guards, Zeitler (we chose) or DeCastro who most said was a can't miss. DeCastro is one of the best guards in football, Zeitler was good and never great. How good would our OL have been adding DeCastro with Whitt.

We could have drafted Mahomes or Watson instead of John Ross. The Chiefs and a QB named Smith, but decided to draft another QB and traded up for Mahomes.

Those are just 3 huge misses off the top of my head. 2 would have fixed our OL.

I also see teams like the Steelers take unknowns like the current LT and make them stars. So, yes coaching also an issue.

Who do you have that would make our roster more talented but we did not draft?

To the bold: Is there another way?

To the content: 

DeCastro should have been the pick, but then we'd have missed out on former Bengal great Brandon Thompson. 

I have 0 issues with the Whit move. Was it terrible in hindsight? Yes

Ross was never the smart pick but Mahomes or Watson weren't even in conversations. Andy was only 1 year removed from hos 2015 MVP season

[No-huddle Joe]

(10-14-2019, 04:50 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We are a team that builds primarily through the draft and FA, a look at why our OL  and talent is below par. I like looking forward, but this is a main reason why we are where we are today. Our talent is lacking, the OL is in a shambles.

We panicked and drafted Whitt's replacements too soon setting the stage for his departure. The void has never been fixed.

We had a choice of 2 guards, Zeitler (we chose) or DeCastro who most said was a can't miss. DeCastro is one of the best guards in football, Zeitler was good and never great. How good would our OL have been adding DeCastro with Whitt.

We could have drafted Mahomes or Watson instead of John Ross. The Chiefs and a QB named Smith, but decided to draft another QB and traded up for Mahomes.

Those are just 3 huge misses off the top of my head. 2 would have fixed our OL.

I also see teams like the Steelers take unknowns like the current LT and make them stars. So, yes coaching also an issue.

Who do you have that would make our roster more talented but we did not draft?

I know that Ross has pretty much been a bust, looking like maybe this was his coming out year before getting injured, but I don't always believe that you can say "Mahomes would have worked out better, or Watson".  The only reason I say this is because you never know how those guys would work out in the Bengals system.  Right now the only thing either one of them would be able to do is run.  Then how long do they last before a major knee injury or something?  I know we can see they are working out much better than Ross now, but still I think this is more of a "hindsight is 20/20" thing.  I agree about needing a better scouting staff....then maybe we could choose players that fit our system, not just the fastest guy at the combine, or because Mel Kiper says he should be the number one guy.

[Luvnit2]

(10-14-2019, 05:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: To the bold: Is there another way?

To the content: 

DeCastro should have been the pick, but then we'd have missed out on former Bengal great Brandon Thompson. 

I have 0 issues with the Whit move. Was it terrible in hindsight? Yes

Ross was never the smart pick but Mahomes or Watson weren't even in conversations. Andy was only 1 year removed from hos 2015 MVP season

I thought Smith had also been pretty good in Reid's system when they drafted Mahomes??

That was my point, Reid said good or very good was not enough, we did not.

[Luvnit2]

(10-14-2019, 05:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Zeitler was an excellent OG.  Even if you argue that DeCastro was better it wasn't by a lot.

If people think drafting Zeitler was one of our biggest mistakes I'll take several of those every year please.

I never said Zeitler was a horrible guard, I said of the 2, we drafted the wrong one.

What are two players PFF rankings since drafted?  My guess is Decastro is elite, Zeitler is not.

[KillerGoose]

(10-14-2019, 06:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I never said Zeitler was a horrible guard, I said of the 2, we drafted the wrong one.

What are two players PFF rankings since drafted?  My guess is Decastro is elite, Zeitler is not.

Going off of PFF, Decastro has really only been slightly better. Kevin has had a better grade than Decastro in three seasons, so DeCastro has the edge in four seasons. One of those four seasons, the grades were DeCastro (81.6) and Zeitler (81.3). Essentially neck and neck. In 2015, they were both stellar. 84.4 for Zeitler and 89.5 for DeCastro. 

DeCastro has had higher highs (one 90 rated season) than Zeitler (one 88 rated season), but both are terrific guards.

[Pat5775]

(10-14-2019, 04:52 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I agree with this.  It goes back to Tobin and the lack of a true GM that knows football.  But it also goes to using coaches as scouts and having one of the smallest if not the smallest scouting departments in the NFL.  

Yep. And plenty of people will still never forgive Palmer for wanting out

Can’t blame him. Or Corey, or Chad, or Wilkinson, or TJ, or anyone who ever wanted to leave for greener pastures. The morons in charge of this team have no clue how to run an NFL franchise. They will never win consistently

[Fan_in_Kettering]

As long as Mike Brown doesn’t believe in paying for “blockers” the Bengals are screwed. In fact, I won’t call an offensive lineman a “blocker” because I consider the term derogatory.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2019, 05:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: To the bold: Is there another way?

To the content: 

DeCastro should have been the pick, but then we'd have missed out on former Bengal great Brandon Thompson. 

I have 0 issues with the Whit move. Was it terrible in hindsight? Yes

Ross was never the smart pick but Mahomes or Watson weren't even in conversations. Andy was only 1 year removed from hos 2015 MVP season

The thing is, the Bengals wanted Whitworth and told teams he was coming back. Then they lowballed him and the Rams jumped in.

It's not like they didn't want him.

They botched it.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2019, 06:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I never said Zeitler was a horrible guard, I said of the 2, we drafted the wrong one.

What are two players PFF rankings since drafted?  My guess is Decastro is elite, Zeitler is not.

It's really hard to say. IF the Steelers drafted Zeitler, he might be considered some elite Guard. They tend to develop lineman...and dare I say, they get away with holding more than the Bengals do. 

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-14-2019, 07:02 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Yep. And plenty of people will still never forgive Palmer for wanting out

Can’t blame him. Or Corey, or Chad, or Wilkinson, or TJ, or anyone who ever wanted to leave for greener pastures. The morons in charge of this team have no clue how to run an NFL franchise. They will never win consistently

This season is opening my eyes on why Palmer wanted out.  The incompetence of the Front Office has always been suspect but this year especially, it has been egregious.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-14-2019, 10:57 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: This season is opening my eyes on why Palmer wanted out.  The incompetence of the Front Office has always been suspect but this year especially, it has been egregious.

Now you see why some of us supported Palmer's decision on the old board.

As to your OP Luvnit, I have maintained for the last couple of years that the 2015 draft screwed this team for at least 5 years moving forward. It wasn't fair to Marvin, and it's really handcuffing a rookie HC. Preparing for Whit's departure was smart, the execution was horrible. Is there anyone left from that draft contributing? Uzomah?

[Luvnit2]

(10-15-2019, 11:02 AM)Wyche Wrote: Now you see why some of us supported Palmer's decision on the old board.

As to your OP Luvnit, I have maintained for the last couple of years that the 2015 draft screwed this team for at least 5 years moving forward. It wasn't fair to Marvin, and it's really handcuffing a rookie HC. Preparing for Whit's departure was smart, the execution was horrible. Is there anyone left from that draft contributing? Uzomah?

I agree on the 2015 draft. The Bengals FO got spooked by Whitt's age and then reached for an injured OT in round #1. The issue is we also followed it with mediocre drafts as well. 

[XenoMorph]

(10-14-2019, 04:50 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We are a team that builds primarily through the draft and FA, a look at why our OL  and talent is below par. I like looking forward, but this is a main reason why we are where we are today. Our talent is lacking, the OL is in a shambles.

We panicked and drafted Whitt's replacements too soon setting the stage for his departure. The void has never been fixed.

We had a choice of 2 guards, Zeitler (we chose) or DeCastro who most said was a can't miss. DeCastro is one of the best guards in football, Zeitler was good and never great. How good would our OL have been adding DeCastro with Whitt.

We could have drafted Mahomes or Watson instead of John Ross. The Chiefs and a QB named Smith, but decided to draft another QB and traded up for Mahomes.

Those are just 3 huge misses off the top of my head. 2 would have fixed our OL.

I also see teams like the Steelers take unknowns like the current LT and make them stars. So, yes coaching also an issue.

Who do you have that would make our roster more talented but we did not draft?

well that current LT for the steelers came here to camp(as a TE) but still had to go do his army tour I believe.  too bad we didn't bring him back in

[XenoMorph]

(10-15-2019, 11:08 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree on the 2015 draft. The Bengals FO got spooked by Whitt's age and then reached for an injured OT in round #1. The issue is we also followed it with mediocre drafts as well. 

even with the OT being injured we had whit for that year... The issue is we drafted a bad OT

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-15-2019, 11:08 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree on the 2015 draft. The Bengals FO got spooked by Whitt's age and then reached for an injured OT in round #1. The issue is we also followed it with mediocre drafts as well. 

True. We've whiffed mightily lately. When you refuse to acknowledge that, and treat FA like the devil, you're going to get what you have now. Not only was Og injured (didn't like the pick if he was healthy), but Fisher busted too. I actually liked the Fisher pick, but alas.....