Can a HC have long-term success under the Bengals structure?

[THE PISTONS]

So we know that coaches have to scout college and NFL free agents. Evaluate the roster. Create the playbook. Structure practices. Hire assistants. Gameplan. Coach, etc. It's a huge ask to have all those skills at a high level in 1 person. Plus, we know they don't rely heavily on free agency and covet comp picks.

For teams with average GM/Scouting functions coaches can focus on playbook, gameplanning, and coaching. This seems like more of a realistic ask.

For the Bengals, say a HC was really innovative and a good coach...but bad at drafting - It would be hard to succeed. They'd also likely look like a mediocre HC due to lack of players.

Is it possible to have a HC succeed long-term here? Can 1 person excel in all of the categories that the Bengals demand of a HC?

[THE PISTONS]

It's changing...slowly. Trading for Cordy Glenn was a big deal (that has not worked out). It's a family-run, very small FO, and they tend to share the same philosophy, so things aren't all of a sudden going to change in a huge way.

— Katherine Terrell (@Kat_Terrell) October 19, 2019

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[*bengalfan74*]

It sure doesn't seem like a recipe for success. But MB isn't gonna change it now.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

That depends on the definition of “success.” If success means having some winning seasons and going to the playoffs on occasion, sure. Marvin Lewis did it. If success means consistent winning deep into the playoffs, then no.

[*jason*]

Nope... They can catch lightning in a bottle, and succeed in spurts, but it cannot be sustained. Marvin Lewis did a hell of a job between 2009 and 2015. We all know what happened.

[Bengalstripes9]

Man Marvin Lewis looks pretty good about now. He didnt have 2 offensive lineman quit on him. He atleast won some games with a crap offensive line. This team has not taken control of a game all year. Its the offensive lines fault, lets face it. But at least Marvin didnt have his two best lineman quit on him. This situation doesn’t look good. Dont know whats going on, if it’s Turners fault or what.

The bengals have not helped their head coaches. Letting the two best players on your offensive line walk and then simply not replacing them is just idiotic. How do you expect to win?

[leonardfan40]

Sure it’s possible, but he has to be a terrific scout/evaluator of talent. We had our playoff run when we were drafting well. Everyone knows we won’t add any stars in FA so any coach who is going to succeed has to be nearly perfect in the draft and it has to go on for 5+ years of amazing drafts.

They blew their shot to get over the hump the last time they had a good run of drafts when they got cute and started trying to replace our stars before their contracts ran out. Not only did that prevent us from improving our roster weaknesses, they also whiffed on the picks which is as much of reason for our current situation as anything. Refused to try to improve our weaknesses and also turned our strengths into weaknesses. Not a recipe for success

[*psychdoctor*]

The short answer is this: The Bengals will not make it to the Superbowl under Mike Brown.

Mike Brown is 84 years of age and sleeps at games. The CEO and Owner of a business that is struggling to meet its goals was caught on camera snoozing. Brown was not angry, was not standing in disbelief of the Bengals poor performance...he was sleeping.

He has been the figurehead for nearly 30 years. From 1991 to 2004, the Bengals did not have a winning record. 14 years of not having a winning record yet it took the Front Office 13 years to go outside the organization to select a new Head Coach. The Bengals went from laughing stock to respectability back to laughing stock. Change is at a glacier pace yet evolution does not occur with the Cincinnati Bengals. The Front Office may want to win but there is no urgency to win.

There is no competent GM. The front office meets with Taylor daily which indicates a micromanagement style by a group of business people not football people. Taylor is energetic, idealistic, and will view the Front Office in a positive light. Taylor is blinded by his opportunity to be a Head Coach in the NFL and views his lack of success in terms of inexperience and not in terms of aging talent. There is a reason why several position coaches refused to become part of the Bengal Organization.

There are a couple weeks until trade deadline ends. Fans will see how serious the Front Office is about winning. If no trades occur then the team will continue down this road of close game moral victories. If no one is fired by the end of the year, and if they do not bring in top quality FA, then I would assume all is normal and the Front Office will be content with just winning a few close games per year and simply being competitive.

[THE PISTONS]

When Lewis was interviewed, Coughlin was also viewed as a strong candidate. I remember reading that Coughlin told friends that he questioned if he could win here and wanted to make changes. It was inferred that those changes were a GM and bringing the scouting up to league average.

Supposedly MB wanted Coughlin. Katie wanted Marvin.

I wonder if MB would have caved to making the changes with scouting?

[*PhilHos*]

(10-18-2019, 10:59 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That depends on the definition of “success.”  If success means having some winning seasons and going to the playoffs on occasion, sure. Marvin Lewis did it.  If success means consistent winning deep into the playoffs, then no.

I disagree. I believe Marvin was the reason we got to the playoffs as many times as we did, but I also believe he's the reason we couldn't advance in the playoffs. I can't put my finger on it, but somehow whatever Marvin did for the playoffs just never worked. That said, I think it's POSSIBLE to find a HC that could duplicate Marvin's regular season success (don't forget, dude has a winning record as HC) AND succeed in the playoffs. The problem is that it'd be like finding an elite QB. 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-18-2019, 11:22 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Man Marvin Lewis looks pretty good about now. He didnt have 2 offensive lineman quit on him.

He had his starting QB quit on him.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-18-2019, 11:00 PM)jason Wrote: Nope... They can catch lightning in a bottle, and succeed in spurts, but it cannot be sustained. Marvin Lewis did a hell of a job between 2009 and 2015. We all know what happened.

This. Man, if Marvin could have just capitalized on 2015, I think he would have made a decent run in the playoffs. Stupid Hill, Jerry Porter.....

[BengalsRocker]

(10-19-2019, 10:14 AM)Wyche Wrote: This. Man, if Marvin could have just capitalized on 2015, I think he would have made a decent run in the playoffs. Stupid Hill, Jerry Porter.....

or got a mother f'n legit Center when it was always needed!

[leonardfan40]

How quickly some people forget this team went 1-7 in Marvin’s last 8 games. They’re 0-6 under Taylor. Let’s not act like that’s a huge drop off all due to taylor.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-19-2019, 10:35 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: or got a mother f'n legit Center when it was always needed!

Several of us were calling for a Center and a LB that could cover passes. The board in general was behind management's whole...We don't want to overspend so we can retain guys in the future to keep this 'dynasty' rolling.

Yeah well the last 4 years were what was considered the future then.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-19-2019, 10:38 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: How quickly some people forget this team went 1-7 in Marvin’s last 8 games. They’re 0-6 under Taylor. Let’s not act like that’s a huge drop off all due to taylor.

It's really hard to have a debate on this board because when we throw topics out about management structure, people basically boil the thread down into a 'Fire Taylor/Keep Taylor' thread.

This thread is about IF the Bengals structure...where coaches have to wear about 14 hats and succeed at them all...can ever achieve long-term success in the NFL. Are there guys out there who would come here who can scout, draft, develop playbooks, lead, and have great coaching abilities?

Personally I think it's a HUGE ask. A HC could be great at 2-3 of those duties and still fail here.

[BengalsRocker]

(10-19-2019, 10:38 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: How quickly some people forget this team went 1-7 in Marvin’s last 8 games. They’re 0-6 under Taylor. Let’s not act like that’s a huge drop off all due to taylor.

So...  no improvement.  Actually statistically worse?

Not really an endorsement.

We didn't forget.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-19-2019, 10:49 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: So...  no improvement.  Actually statistically worse?

Not really an endorsement.

We didn't forget.

Which was a narrative...that modern coaching would fix the team.

And beyond record...we know how bad last year was...but basically the entire team has regressed according to PFF ratings. So yeah...our players...the same players got worse.

But, I think a lot of franchise's...with $50 million in cap space, would have atleast signed 2-3 upgrades in free agency. It was honestly like the Bengals didn't want to improve.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-19-2019, 10:41 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Several of us were calling for a Center and a LB that could cover passes. The board in general was behind management's whole...We don't want to overspend so we can retain guys in the future to keep this 'dynasty' rolling.

Yeah well the last 4 years were what was considered the future then.

I know I wanted Mack at C, and someone the likes of Dansby when he was still good at LB.....but, alas.....

[BengalsRocker]

(10-19-2019, 10:55 AM)Wyche Wrote: I know I wanted Mack at C, and someone the likes of Dansby when he was still good at LB.....but, alas.....

Yes and those two were feasible non pipe dream signings.

Those were the kind of Free Agency types the Bengals could have done to impact.

I'm right there with you on Dansby.

Too little too late.

Could've had some prime years from him yet we got his declined time instead.