I can't help but wonder, when will we be back ?

[*bengalfan74*]

Sitting here casually watching the World Series I can't help but wonder when will we be back ?

Since 2000 the Reds have finished above .500 four times. 85 wins in 00, 91 wins in 10, 97 wins in 12, and 90 wins in 13. However in 2010 playoffs we were swept by the Phillies and quickly knocked out. In 2012 we started off with a bang and took the first 2 on the road in SF only to get swept in the final 3 at home. And in 2013 we lost the WC game to the Pirates. Quick playoff exits !

Four seasons above .500 in 20 years. Since the 90 win 2013 season we've won 76, 64, 68, 68, 67, and 75 games. Take out the four above .500 seasons and we're averaging just over 68 wins for the remaining 16 seasons.

You'll hear the talking heads say the Reds have been rebuilding for 4 years, 5 years or whatever. We've been "rebuilding" for two decades with a couple hiccups thrown in the middle.

Are they gonna stop "rebuilding" and go out and get some players and finally do what it takes this offseason ? Or are we gonna suffer thru rebuild year #21 ?

We ever gonna make it back ?

[guyofthetiger]

One thing we must accept is Cincinnati is a small market team. We can't compete with the New York or LA teams. They spend a lot more and that is what it takes. I know the Rays did well with a small market, but it is rare.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-26-2019, 01:28 AM)guyofthetiger Wrote: One thing we must accept is Cincinnati is a small market team. We can't compete with the New York or LA teams. They spend a lot more and that is what it takes. I know the Rays did well with a small market, but it is rare.

Oh I get it, the Reds will most likely never have another decade like the 70's. But come on, in 20 years they've produced 3 kinda ok teams and 1 that barely topped .500

It's time to stop rebuilding and go for it.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

When does Votto's contract end? That's when they'll start to contend. I would love to see him have ALBATROSS on his jersey for players weekend.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-26-2019, 03:11 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: When does Votto's contract end? That's when they'll start to contend. I would love to see him have ALBATROSS on his jersey for players weekend.

That's the thing I fear ! They have little chance at putting together a winner while he's eating up so much salary. 

[samhain]

I am optimistic. The pieces are in place for a potentially great rotation after being lost for years. They have a few stud hitters. They have payroll to burn despite the Votto commitment and a willingness to use it.

Unlike the Bengals, this front office has my attention and optimism. This offseason will be critical. Buckle up and enjoy the ride.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-27-2019, 01:06 AM)samhain Wrote: I am optimistic.  The pieces are in place for a potentially great rotation after being lost for years.  They have a few stud hitters.  They have payroll to burn despite the Votto commitment and a willingness to use it.  

Unlike the Bengals, this front office has my attention and optimism.  This offseason will be critical.  Buckle up and enjoy the ride.

Agree

I believe they have a decent core of players to build on NOW. Very small market teams like the Reds have small windows of opportunity to strike. The iron is hot !

I hope you're right.

[Circleville Guy]

The Reds have the makings of a solid rotation although I’m not as big on Bauer as most are. They should still have 3 or 4 solid starting pitchers. They have 2 or 3 decent relievers and 1 solid position player to count on. There is some potential with the position player but it mostly feels like a bunch of AAAA players. They have money to spend but they have to be creative and make that money go as far as possible and really hope that Votto can get some of his OBP back. I haven’t been impressed with this ownership group. They tried to be creative last offseason and it didn’t work but at least they tried. It all hinges on how they decide to spend and trade. I don’t know how they can feel comfortable with Iglesias penciled in as the closer. He could bounce back but he’s looking very iffy.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-27-2019, 06:15 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: The Reds have the makings of a solid rotation although I’m not as big on Bauer as most are. They should still have 3 or 4 solid starting pitchers. They have 2 or 3 decent relievers and 1 solid position player to count on. There is some potential with the position player but it mostly feels like a bunch of AAAA players. They have money to spend but they have to be creative and make that money go as far as possible and really hope that Votto can get some of his OBP back. I haven’t been impressed with this ownership group. They tried to be creative last offseason and it didn’t work but at least they tried. It all hinges on how they decide to spend and trade. I don’t know how they can feel comfortable with Iglesias penciled in as the closer. He could bounce back but he’s looking very iffy.

Yep

I understand the Reds don't have the money to go all Yankees in free agency, but. They need to take some big steps and stop the baby stuff. Go get a LH slugger for LF and stop platooning Larry, Curly, and Moe. 

Like you say, get a real closer. Do their damndest to find a top level LH starter. If they can swing a leadoff CF that's icing on the cake !

Hope and pray Votto can pull his head out of his @zz and Aquino is the real deal. They'd have a team that could challenge a bit.

[grampahol]

Votto even after his usual terrible start to the season still finished with a .261 BA. By just about any standard that's fairly remarkable considering where he was as late as the ASG. While I would love to see him hit at least .300 for the season I think .275 would be quite acceptable.  Votto's been a very good player for quite some time and has shown no indication of disloyalty to the franchise. I just don't get the consistent hatred towards one of the best players this team has had over the time he's been a Reds player. I get that many people think he's overpaid, but so what?  Every player is overpaid in every pro sport with a 3 letter acronym for a name. The Reds committed to Votto when he was still tearing up the league, but the moment he showed any signs of age people act as if he's the only player to ever slow down after reaching 33 years old. 
I'm kind of from the old school of wanting certain players to retire with the team after having earned his respect from fans. If any player with team over the past 10 years have earned our respect it's Joey Votto.

[Circleville Guy]

(10-27-2019, 06:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep

I understand the Reds don't have the money to go all Yankees in free agency, but. They need to take some big steps and stop the baby stuff. Go get a LH slugger for LF and stop platooning Larry, Curly, and Moe. 

Like you say, get a real closer. Do their damndest to find a top level LH starter. If they can swing a leadoff CF that's icing on the cake !

Hope and pray Votto can pull his head out of his @zz and Aquino is the real deal. They'd have a team that could challenge a bit.

I think it’s obvious that they will make some changes and hopefully they are substantially better players. Look at Winker, Ervin and Peraza... they all have potential but give me one guy that is a proven starter and you can have all 3. Players do need time to develop but you can only give each guy so many AB’s at this level before looking in another direction. Mediocre players will give you mediocre results.

[Circleville Guy]

(10-27-2019, 06:56 PM)grampahol Wrote: Votto even after his usual terrible start to the season still finished with a .261 BA. By just about any standard that's fairly remarkable considering where he was as late as the ASG. While I would love to see him hit at least .300 for the season I think .275 would be quite acceptable.  Votto's been a very good player for quite some time and has shown no indication of disloyalty to the franchise. I just don't get the consistent hatred towards one of the best players this team has had over the time he's been a Reds player. I get that many people think he's overpaid, but so what?  Every player is overpaid in every pro sport with a 3 letter acronym for a name. The Reds committed to Votto when he was still tearing up the league, but the moment he showed any signs of age people act as if he's the only player to ever slow down after reaching 33 years old. 
I'm kind of from the old school of wanting certain players to retire with the team after having earned his respect from fans. If any player with team over the past 10 years have earned our respect it's Joey Votto.

I really don’t think the fans hate on Votto as much as they hate on that contract because the Reds already had him signed for the next couple of years. Why extend a guy after an MVP season when he’s already under control? It was a very dumb botch by ownership that Votto would’ve been foolish not to have taken. I think that everyone totally respects what Votto has done but not at the expense of sacrificing this year and the next 4 just to keep him in the lineup. He has earned the chance to try to bounce back this year but if his numbers continue to decline then they should probably think about first, dropping him in the lineup and then dropping his play time by about 25%. No one player can be bigger than the team and that includes Joe.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-27-2019, 07:35 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I really don’t think the fans hate on Votto as much as they hate on that contract because the Reds already had him signed for the next couple of years. Why extend a guy after an MVP season when he’s already under control? It was a very dumb botch by ownership that Votto would’ve been foolish not to have taken. I think that everyone totally respects what Votto has done but not at the expense of sacrificing this year and the next 4 just to keep him in the lineup. He has earned the chance to try to bounce back this year but if his numbers continue to decline then they should probably think about first, dropping him in the lineup and then dropping his play time by about 25%. No one player can be bigger than the team and that includes Joe.

Yep

You can't have a guy tying up a power position averaging 45 RBI's a season. That's the thing, not if he's hitting .265 or .300

And it's his approach at the plate that pisses people off. Striking out looking in the bottom of the 8th with two on down three runs.

[Circleville Guy]

(10-27-2019, 07:46 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep

You can't have a guy tying up a power position averaging 45 RBI's a season. That's the thing, not if he's hitting .265 or .300

And it's his approach at the plate that pisses people off. Striking out looking in the bottom of the 8th with two on down three runs.

I really think that many people misunderstand how many fans feel about Votto. Most of us really want Votto to bounce back as much as possible because that bodes well for the Reds. Nobody should expect .300 30 100 from him, that’s not realistic. If he’s playing the bulk of the games at 1B then he really needs to drive in 70 Runs at a minimum. He has to hit .260-.270 with 10-15 HRs with 70 RBI. If he can’t reach that then they need to platoon him.