To Those Who Blame Injuries

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2019, 11:08 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And other teams lose equally good players to Green...and still win.

I can post tons of statistics that prove that teams that stay healthy are more likely to win.  Cherry picking exceptions to the rule proves nothing.

Good teams deal with injuries better than bad teams, but I can post plenty of examples of good teams that had their seasons ruined by injuries. The Bengals were not a good team before they got hit by all these injuries, but they would definitely be a much better team without them.  

Anyone who claims injuries don't effect other teams is clueless about the NFL.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2019, 12:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I can post tons of statistics that prove that teams that stay healthy are more likely to win.  Cherry picking exceptions to the rule proves nothing.

Good teams deal with injuries better than bad teams, but I can post plenty of examples of good teams that had their seasons ruined by injuries. The Bengals were not a good team before they got hit by all these injuries, but they would definitely be a much better team without them.  

Anyone who claims injuries don't effect other teams is clueless about the NFL.

So you think teams stay 100% healthy ALL season?

The 49ers this year seems to be doing just fine without BOTH of their starting Tackles.

The Saints were 6-0 without Brees.

The Packers won the SB a handful of years back with a lot of starters on IR.

The Steelers have won a few games without Roethlisberger.

Yet...Green gets hurt and we're 0-8. So we shouldn't have won a SINGLE GAME WITHOUT GREEN?

[lone bengal]

Injuries aren’t the main issue for this teams struggles some fans use it as an excuse as does the front office. Fans said the defense was bad last season because Guys like Vigil , Brown and others were hurt. This defenses 100% healthy is still awful. The Green and Jonah Williams injuries hurt but even if they were healthy all year we’re probably a four win team. The real issues involve terrible ownership , completely missing on drafted players for multiple years and thinking signing free agents like John Miller , B.W. Webb and Kerry Wynn will turn this team around.

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2019, 12:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So you think teams stay 100% healthy ALL season?

No I never said anything like that.

If you want me to respond then address what I actually said.  This is getting tiresome.

[mt415tress]

The bengals have been one of the most healthy teams in the nfl Over this last 4 full seasonS

https://www.sportfacts.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/nfl-injuries-by-year.png

This year they are no more injured than the majority of teams

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2019, 01:10 PM)mt415tress Wrote: The bengals have been one of the most healthy teams in the nfl Over this last 4 full seasonS

https://www.sportfacts.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/nfl-injuries-by-year.png

This year they are no more injured than the majority of teams

These type of numbers can be deceptive.  For example Green, Williams, Glenn, and Boling have not been placed on IR.  So they would not show up on this graph at all.

In the past I have seen numbers where they actually weigh the losses by number of starts lost.  For example it does not really matter that we have guys like O'Shea Dugas, Rodney Anderson, and Niles Scott on IR.

When I have more time I will see if I can find those more detailed numbers.

[*PhilHos*]

Besides maybe Mike Brown, who's blaming injuries for this disaster of a season?

[Hammerstripes]

In all fairness, you can't compare what the Bengals are missing to what the 49ers are missing in reality, here's what we are missing:

LT1
LT2
LG1
LG2
WR1 - Franchise player
WR3
RT1

Now, I'm the first to admit that I've given this coaching staff a free pass this year, but I'm hoping that next year the offense looks like this:

Jonah-Draft Pick/Signee-Hopkins-Miller-FA/Draft Pick

AJ, Ross, Boyd, Mixon, Gio, Uzomah

QB of your choosing - Burrow/Tua/Eason/Herbert

That's something that should show a ton of progress and get fans excited again.

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2019, 01:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Besides maybe Mike Brown, who's blaming injuries for this disaster of a season?

I think the offense could have been a good bit better, but our defense would have still been a nightmare.

Glenn may have been overrated, Boling may have been in decline, and Williams was just a rookie.  But you can't convince me that they would not have been a lot better than what we have been running out there.

Last year Andre Smith allowed as many sacks in 8 games with the Cards as Bobby hart did in 16.  John Jerry was not even on an NFL roster last year.  Those two have not just been starting for us.  They have been starting at LEFT TACKLE.

Our running game is not just weak.  It is on pace to be the worst in modern NFL history.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2019, 01:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Besides maybe Mike Brown, who's blaming injuries for this disaster of a season?

See the person who posted right below you.

[The Caped Crusader]

(10-31-2019, 11:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: EVERY TEAM has injuries. You need depth to overcome them.

Take the 49ers -
Starting Tackle Joe Staley - Out since Week 3. 6-time Pro Bowl Player
Starting Tackle Mike McGlinchey - Out since Week 6. PFWA All-Rookie Team. 1st Round pick.
RB - Tevin Coleman - Missed multiple games
FB - Kyle Juszczyk  - Out since Week 6. 3-time Pro Bowl Player

They also have lesser players that have missed games.

But, they have 2 good to great Tackles...and BOTH have been out. They also lost their dominant RB for several games and a great FB.

Yet...THEY'RE UNDEFEATED. And their offense looks pretty great!

They aren't 0-8 and looking terrible. Devastated because they're missing 2 lineman.

Their fans aren't like...NOBODY could win with these injuries! EVERY TEAM has injuries. The reason we lose is because our coaching is poor.

You can look at other teams - Kansas City- They had 6 quality players including Mahomes out for their game last week. And guess what? Andy Reid schemed Matt Moore into having a good game!

Joe Staley is a great tackle? His replacement? Sixth round Justin Skule is playing solid though. He currently has a 68 on PFF. That's 8 points better than John Jerry, 18 points better than Andre Smith.

Skule has given up 4 sacks in almost 500 snaps.
John Jerry has given up 4 sacks in 300.
Andre Smith has given up 3 sacks in 242


Props to the Niners for drafting well and making the best of talent. Clearly, we can't. 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2019, 01:41 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: In all fairness, you can't compare what the Bengals are missing to what the 49ers are missing in reality, here's what we are missing:

LT1
LT2
LG1
LG2
WR1 - Franchise player
WR3
RT1

Now, I'm the first to admit that I've given this coaching staff a free pass this year, but I'm hoping that next year the offense looks like this:

Jonah-Draft Pick/Signee-Hopkins-Miller-FA/Draft Pick

AJ, Ross, Boyd, Mixon, Gio, Uzomah

QB of your choosing - Burrow/Tua/Eason/Herbert

That's something that should show a ton of progress and get fans excited again.

So you're counting Cordy Glenn in that mix a bunch of times?

How are we missing RT1? It was their plan to start Bobby Hart ALL offseason. The staff liked what they saw from him.

Who do you consider LG2? Our starting Center from last year is our LG now.

Plus, the added Miller in free agency to start at RG and he's being replaced by last years starting Guard in Redmond.

[Hammerstripes]

(11-01-2019, 02:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So you're counting Cordy Glenn in that mix a bunch of times?

How are we missing RT1? It was their plan to start Bobby Hart ALL offseason. The staff liked what they saw from him.

Who do you consider LG2? Our starting Center from last year is our LG now.

Plus, the added Miller in free agency to start at RG and he's being replaced by last years starting Guard in Redmond.

From the start of training camp, here is what we've been missing:

LT1 - Jonah was slated to start there
LT2 - Glenn was the backup and he's out
LG1 - Boling
LG2 - Jordan was a complete flop

I'm looking at this above and beyond the obvious injuries and looking at what we have on field right now.  Hart is not RT1, he's been RT2-3 since he's been here.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-31-2019, 11:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: EVERY TEAM has injuries. You need depth to overcome them.

Take the 49ers -
Starting Tackle Joe Staley - Out since Week 3. 6-time Pro Bowl Player
Starting Tackle Mike McGlinchey - Out since Week 6. PFWA All-Rookie Team. 1st Round pick.
RB - Tevin Coleman - Missed multiple games
FB - Kyle Juszczyk  - Out since Week 6. 3-time Pro Bowl Player

They also have lesser players that have missed games.

But, they have 2 good to great Tackles...and BOTH have been out. They also lost their dominant RB for several games and a great FB.

Yet...THEY'RE UNDEFEATED. And their offense looks pretty great!

They aren't 0-8 and looking terrible. Devastated because they're missing 2 lineman.

Their fans aren't like...NOBODY could win with these injuries! EVERY TEAM has injuries. The reason we lose is because our coaching is poor.

You can look at other teams - Kansas City- They had 6 quality players including Mahomes out for their game last week. And guess what? Andy Reid schemed Matt Moore into having a good game!

For one thing Matt Breida is no slouch.

Secondly, most of our starters on the line going into the season were fringe of the roster kinda guys on most teams. Now you have imagine how bad their backups are.

Thirdly, better run organization and a much more experienced staff....that struggled initially in its own right.

Last .....Mike Brown.

[J24]

Kwon Alexander is done for the season with a torn pec; I wonder how the 49ers will respond with two late Rd rookies as back ups?

[Whatever]

(11-01-2019, 03:48 PM)J24 Wrote: Kwon Alexander is done for the season with a torn pec; I wonder how the 49ers will respond with two late Rd rookies as back ups?

What's funny is a bunch of people were blasting the Bengals for not backing a Brinks truck up to his oft injured door just a few weeks ago.  Now he's going to be put on IR again.

[Millhouse]

The Bengals unlike most other teams can't afford injuries. The reason is that they simply don't have enough good players, as simple as that. Most of the backups are dreadful, not even serviceable when called upon. And many of the startees just arent good 'blue-collar' kind of players.

So yeah, injuries is an excuse for the Bengals because the front office have drafted and signed a lot of bad to under-average players for the general roster.

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2019, 03:48 PM)J24 Wrote: Kwon Alexander is done for the season with a torn pec; I wonder how the 49ers will respond with two late Rd rookies as back ups?

That defense is legit.

[*jason*]

(11-01-2019, 12:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So you think teams stay 100% healthy ALL season?

The 49ers this year seems to be doing just fine without BOTH of their starting Tackles.

The Saints were 6-0 without Brees.

The Packers won the SB a handful of years back with a lot of starters on IR.

The Steelers have won a few games without Roethlisberger.

Yet...Green gets hurt and we're 0-8. So we shouldn't have won a SINGLE GAME WITHOUT GREEN?

Back to the Saints...

In general I don't disagree with your premise that these teams are deeper than the Bengals, but...

We all remember Bountygate; right? Sean Peyton was suspended the entire next season. From 2009 to 2011 they went 13-3, 11-5, 13-3. The following year when Peyton was suspended they were a 7-9 team. They lost Drew Brees for multiple games this year, and Alvin Kamara missed 2 games over that same span. They hardly missed a beat. Coaching matters in this league.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2019, 09:48 PM)jason Wrote: Back to the Saints...

In general I don't disagree with your premise that these teams are deeper than the Bengals, but...

We all remember Bountygate; right? Sean Peyton was suspended the entire next season. From 2009 to 2011 they went 13-3, 11-5, 13-3. The following year when Peyton was suspended they were a 7-9 team. They lost Drew Brees for multiple games this year, and Alvin Kamara missed 2 games over that same span. They hardly missed a beat. Coaching matters in this league.

Absolutely coaching matters too. And we have arguably the worst staff in the league. The guys that are healthy...are regressing. Take Bates. Last year he looked like a budding star. This year, he's graded really low by PFF.

Atkins has declined. Dunlap. A bunch of guys.

The coaching here is terrible.