We are all being trolled by Cincinnati Sports

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-01-2019, 07:55 PM)Millhouse Wrote: The difference between the two though over the years....

The Reds have been wayyyyy better with fan relations than the Clown family has done

Yep

And some people still claim MB is this genius businessman. He does nothing to build his brand !

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-01-2019, 04:59 PM)mt415tress Wrote: It actually doesnt.

By sheer and dumb luck, you would back into a season of playoff success once every 28 years.   They adapt in the most short-sided, cheap and counter intuitive ways.  It is like they are allergic to good decisions.  It is beyond systemic mismanagement, they try to fail.

Not trading aging assets on a winless team for picks
Refusing to expand scouting and player dev
Tobin, Troy, Katie - Surrounding w nepotism
Refusing to hire a GM 
Refusing to invest in facilities upgrades
Refusing to use free agency 


These are not 'His stubborn ways' . They are intentionally trying to be horrendous 
  

I don't think they're intentionally trying to be bad. I think it's all the things you say and their unwillingness to change, whether it be their approach or moving on from players that just can't get over the hump, so the bad times are extended longer than they would be in other places. 

Players aside, look at any trend in the NFL. You can set your watch by the Bengals catching up to it about 5 years later. 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2019, 09:38 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't think they're intentionally trying to be bad. I think it's all the things you say and their unwillingness to change, whether it be their approach or moving on from players that just can't get over the hump, so the bad times are extended longer than they would be in other places. 

Players aside, look at any trend in the NFL. You can set your watch by the Bengals catching up to it about 5 years later. 

And...when they made the playoffs 5 years in a row...it was validation that their plan and strategy worked. 'Model Model'.

Despite the fact that other NFL Teams view playoff wins and SB's as success.

[mt415tress]

(11-01-2019, 09:38 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't think they're intentionally trying to be bad. I think it's all the things you say and their unwillingness to change, whether it be their approach or moving on from players that just can't get over the hump, so the bad times are extended longer than they would be in other places. 

Players aside, look at any trend in the NFL. You can set your watch by the Bengals catching up to it about 5 years later. 

I think if you continue to quadruple and quintuple down repeatedly, on the same ‘plays’ that have made you a league laughingstock, then it’s intentional.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-01-2019, 11:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And...when they made the playoffs 5 years in a row...it was validation that their plan and strategy worked. 'Model Model'.

Despite the fact that other NFL Teams view playoff wins and SB's as success.

Exactly. Championships...for lack of a better word...take a back seat to "being competitive"--being able to say "we made the playoffs 5 years in a row, that's better than X number of teams. We've won X number of games over X number of years", etc etc. 

Being able to put themselves in the company of other winning teams is held up as some kind of great accomplishment, even if those regular season wins and playoff appearances led to zero playoff wins. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-01-2019, 11:45 PM)mt415tress Wrote: I think if you continue to quadruple and quintuple down repeatedly, on the same ‘plays’ that have made you a league laughingstock, then it’s intentional.

I think you're underestimating the Bengals brass in their resolve in believing the way they do things is the "right way" and that it's only a matter of time until their luck changes and they're at the top of the league 'again'. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-02-2019, 02:09 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Exactly. Championships...for lack of a better word...take a back seat to "being competitive"--being able to say "we made the playoffs 5 years in a row, that's better than X number of teams. We've won X number of games over X number of years", etc etc. 

Being able to put themselves in the company of other winning teams is held up as some kind of great accomplishment, even if those regular season wins and playoff appearances led to zero playoff wins. 

Hanging on the coat tails of other winning teams. 

We've had this discussion several times on here and several more on the mother ship. MB "wants" to win, I believe that. But like Nately puts it, he wants to win like a fat girl sitting with a gallon of ice cream and bag of Reeses cups "wants" to be a bikini model.

In other words he doesn't covet winning above all else. He doesn't put winning up on the mantle as the ultimate and only acceptable outcome. If he truly did he would have changed his ways long ago.

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2019, 08:34 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Hanging on the coat tails of other winning teams. 

We've had this discussion several times on here and several more on the mother ship. MB "wants" to win, I believe that. But like Nately puts it, he wants to win like a fat girl sitting with a gallon of ice cream and bag of Reeses cups "wants" to be a bikini model.

In other words he doesn't covet winning above all else. He doesn't put winning up on the mantle as the ultimate and only acceptable outcome. If he truly did he would have changed his ways long ago.

I think a lot of time owners lookm long term and that may be part of why the Bengals fail to win championships.

If a coach (or many fan) had his way he would trade every future draft pick in order to win a championship.  Coaches for sure because they figure if they doin't win they are gone in a few years anyway.  But owners in general look long term.  Mike Brown has shown he won't mortagge the future for a championship, and just like most people that won't get a mortgage will never own a house the bengals will never get over the hump.

When they hit on a few drafts they got good enough to make the playoffs, but their refusal to take the next step kept them from getting any further.  We also had some good coordinators in Zimmer/Guenther and Gruden/Jackson.

Now we have missed on a few drafts and we don't seem to have any coaching.  Things could be bad for a while.

[t3r3e3]

(11-02-2019, 02:50 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I think you're underestimating the Bengals brass in their resolve in believing the way they do things is the "right way" and that it's only a matter of time until their luck changes and they're at the top of the league 'again'. 

They’ve never been at the top of the league under Mike Brown. When Mike started his reign many houses still had rotary phones, and you could still get tapes for Betamax players. 30 years later the only thing that hasn’t changed is Mike’s unwillingness to adapt and improve. Mike’s way, at best, has gotten the team solidly in the 60th percentile, with WC round defeats representing the absolute best the team can do. Without revenue sharing Mike would have went bankrupt or sold the team in the 90’s. His way is an embarrassment, and has been soundly proven to be a losing strategy. Ten year olds playing dynasty mode in Madden could run this show better than Mike.

[grampahol]

(11-01-2019, 01:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Reds have made multiple moves over the last two seasons.

The Bengals have changed coaches, traded for one of the highest paid OTs in the league and signed the leagues leading tackler in free agency.

How about we include reality in the discussion.  

Need you be reminded Fred that reality is merely a crutch for people who can't handle fantasies? Huh? I chose to fantasize that the Bengals and the Reds are the greatest sports organizations in the entire history of sports.. I can't handle reality.. 

[grampahol]

(11-02-2019, 10:55 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: They’ve never been at the top of the league under Mike Brown.  When Mike started his reign many houses still had rotary phones, and you could still get tapes for Betamax players.  30 years later the only thing that hasn’t changed is Mike’s unwillingness to adapt and improve.  Mike’s way, at best, has gotten the team solidly in the 60th percentile, with WC round defeats representing the absolute best the team can do.  Without revenue sharing Mike would have went bankrupt or sold the team in the 90’s.  His way is an embarrassment, and has been soundly proven to be a losing strategy.  Ten year olds playing dynasty mode in Madden could run this show better than Mike.

When Mikey took over for his old man most of us old timers still had pimples and had regular wet dreams at night.. Now THAT'S scary...He's single handedly responsible for fcking up many a wet dream..that's for sure. 

[grampahol]

I don't consider the Reds in the same universe of stupid as the Bengals. The Reds have changed ownership and management several times since Mikey boy took over and have been in several post season games and even won a championship. Think about teams like Chicago for example that remained out of the post season and especially the WS FAR longer than anyone else. Boston lived through the curse of the Bambino way to long and it really took BIG MONEY for either team to find success. While the Reds have had their fair share of failure several other baseball franchises have had it much worse for far longer. 
The Bengals are cursed with Mike Brown and Mike Brown alone.
The Reds on the other hand are cursed with the lack of money in comparison with many larger cities along with some very poor decision making in the past few decades..
With the Bengals it's been all Mike Brown.
That said I still believe that all pro sports are fixed probably far more than anyone wants to admit. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-02-2019, 10:55 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: They’ve never been at the top of the league under Mike Brown.  When Mike started his reign many houses still had rotary phones, and you could still get tapes for Betamax players.  30 years later the only thing that hasn’t changed is Mike’s unwillingness to adapt and improve.  Mike’s way, at best, has gotten the team solidly in the 60th percentile, with WC round defeats representing the absolute best the team can do.  Without revenue sharing Mike would have went bankrupt or sold the team in the 90’s.  His way is an embarrassment, and has been soundly proven to be a losing strategy.  Ten year olds playing dynasty mode in Madden could run this show better than Mike.

That's the point and why i typed 'again' the way i did. 

Mike Brown clearly believes that 2011-2015, the Bengals were one of the best teams in the NFL due to their overall record and how it stacked up to other teams. There is a legitimate argument to be made that they had a talented roster but there's also a legitimate argument to be made that there was something wrong with a roster that continually came up woefully short in the playoffs. 

Preseason is one level
Regular season is another level
Playoffs are another level
The SB is another level

The Bengals, with their complete roster, could not get past the regular season level of ability, whether it was a physical problem or a mental problem. 

How far they advanced is not part of the equation in Mike Browns mind. How competitive they were in winning games, even though those were "only" regular season wins, is the only equation in Mike Brown's mind. 

[grampahol]

We still have to go back to the central question of whether the league is rigged or not. 
Brian Touhey really nails it this past week commenting on OJB handing over goat hair made shoes to Brady after getting beaten by NE.. ( thefixisin.net )
Nobody will ever convince me that when big money took over and the TV networks began televising NFL games every weekend the way they do now that it isn't just another prescripted tv show instead of true competition. There's absolutely no reason why perennial losing teams should still be able to pay out multi million dollar salaries for clear losers instead of bankruptcy like any other failed business..
After all, we still hear TV pundits and others rail against the notion of giving some poor family enough cash to survive and yet it's crickets when multi billion dollar businesses are subsidized losers and we're STILL talking about whether AJ Green has earned the right to be paid another few million and a nice long extension despite his age and lack of post season success.. Some poor family barely getting by living in substandard housing?  They just don't work hard enough at those two and sometimes three jobs.. 

[jfkbengals]

(11-02-2019, 12:19 PM)grampahol Wrote: I don't consider the Reds in the same universe of stupid as the Bengals. The Reds have changed ownership and management several times since Mikey boy took over and have been in several post season games and even won a championship. Think about teams like Chicago for example that remained out of the post season and especially the WS FAR longer than anyone else. Boston lived through the curse of the Bambino way to long and it really took BIG MONEY for either team to find success. While the Reds have had their fair share of failure several other baseball franchises have had it much worse for far longer. 
The Bengals are cursed with Mike Brown and Mike Brown alone.
The Reds on the other hand are cursed with the lack of money in comparison with many larger cities along with some very poor decision making in the past few decades..
With the Bengals it's been all Mike Brown.
That said I still believe that all pro sports are fixed probably far more than anyone wants to admit. 

The Reds last championship was the year before Mike took over control of the Bengals...

[grampahol]

(11-02-2019, 12:43 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: The Reds last championship was the year before Mike took over control of the Bengals...

Still doesn't mean squat. They're not in the same league of ineptitude, corruption and other factors. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-02-2019, 12:38 PM)grampahol Wrote: We still have to go back to the central question of whether the league is rigged or not. 

No we don't because that is utter bullshit. This isn't the WWE where they pull punches in staged matches, so that guys don't get hurt. Do you think wrestlers would go along with that if they were really getting hit and thrown around? NO. That's the difference between something like the WWE and MMA. When your health and well-being are on the line, you're not going to fake it. 

There are way too many people in the NFL--league office, officials, team owners and FO, staff, players--to pull off any kind of staged performance, even IF they wanted to. It's impossible to do that and keep it under the table. 

It is so beyond ridiculous to claim that the game is fixed, i'm surprised anyone...with a fully functional, right mind...would agree that it's a possibility. 

Human beings, by nature, do stupid and unexplainable things all the time. When you see something egregious happen, like the Saints game last year, it's simply that; natural, stupid human's being humans. 

Constantly citing crackpots being crackpots does not make the claim, in any way, legitimate. 

When a player is charged with domestic abuse or suspended for PEDs, is that part of the "script" too? Because that would effect how a game would be staged. If one player sees another player, of his same position, making more money than him, is he going to "go along" with making less money for the sake of the "script", or is he going to try and play to a level that gets him paid too?

IS EVERY SINGLE GUY CURRENTLY AND IN THE PAST GOING TO AGREE TO A STAGED OUTCOME, WITHOUT THERE EVER BEING ONE INSTANCE OF A PLAYER SPEAKING OUT OR IMPLYING THAT IT'S RIGGED?

So, you're trying to tell me that as inept as the NFL has been in handling numerous instances of player conduct, on and off the field, that they are able to script an entire league, without it ever being found out?

Or, maybe they're just so genius, that they're able to pull something that impossible off... 

And beyond all that...the funniest part is, do you really think that the millions of people betting on the game are going to lay down their hard earned money on something that is staged??

Brian Tuohy. lol. Be careful who you hitch your wagon to. Those horses could be heading straight for a cliff.