How things got this bad?

[BleedNOrange]

Not very difficult to see why they are so bad. It is the perfect comedy of errors.

1) Horrible drafts. Just go look at the first 3 rounds of the last 5 drafts. Yikes.
2) Absolutely no plan to fill in the holes from those missed drafts through free agency.
3) Injuries to Williams and Green. This offense, especially the OL, was not good last year. You draft LT with a top 10 pick just to lose him in preseason. Then you lose your best offensive player (Green). This offense would have been near the bottom with them.
4) An inexperienced coach that is way in over his head.
5) Poor coordinators. The search for a defensive coordinator was embarrassing.

The list goes on and on.

[R3stangs]

In reality, even better question is how much worse is this going to get?

This team is unbelievably still going down. It gets worse every game.

[impactplaya]

Retaining Tobin and not adding quality depth through free agency
That's how you get this bad

[2MinutesHate]

(11-11-2019, 11:22 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: IF Taylor gets fired...you'll see a Jay Gruden, Guenther, or Hue Jackson as the HC.

If any of these 3 were the coach now, what would you say our record would be?

I'd probably say no better than 3-6 and Dalton would still be the starter.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 02:22 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: If any of these 3 were the coach now, what would you say our record would be?

I'd probably say no better than 3-6 and Dalton would still be the starter.

I don't think those guys are great by any means...but it's what the Bengals will do.

I'd say that with an average NFL Coach...we'd have 3 wins. With a really good staff...4-5 wins. The Steelers somehow have 5 wins with Rudolph playing and all of their other injuries.

[Destro]

Made a change at the bye and with an extra week had the greatest loss of the season. You win as a team, you lose as a team. This team sucks. A number one QB, a number one O-lineman and number one CB, all together, will not get this team to win. Wholesale changes are needed. Meanwhile, hopefully the poor team doesn't damage whatever talent we end up getting. Being hurt, getting Bengalized or leaving just as we are getting close to turning the corner.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(11-11-2019, 01:30 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Retaining Tobin and not adding quality depth through free agency
That's how you get this bad

Bad owner
Bad management
Weak coaches
No actual plan of any kind
Misuse of cap funds
Weak personnel department
No true GM
No accountability
No commitment to creating a winning organization
Weak drafting
Not using free agency to fill gaps
Complete disregard for the fanbase

[Fan_in_Kettering]

The last real coach or coordinator the Bengals hired was Mike Zimmer.

[phil413]

Paul died, Mikey tried, Marvin middled, Tobin piddled

[Bengalitis]

(11-12-2019, 12:14 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The last real coach or coordinator the Bengals hired was Mike Zimmer.

 Zimmer was the natural heir to Marvin but the FO didn't have the balls to give him a chance.

[Bengalitis]

(11-12-2019, 01:20 AM)phil413 Wrote: Paul died, Mikey tried, Marvin middled, Tobin piddled

HOF nomination. Just for the poetic effort.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-10-2019, 07:51 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Give us your most logical idea on just how things got as bad as they are now. Every position group is just pathetic, absolutely pathetic this year. Worse than last year. I’m sure most of the problems were building the past 4 years missing on draft picks while letting good players walk. But there has to be even more to it than that. Personally I think we have some good players, take the D for instance. The D line has everyone healthy yet they can’t do anything. So what gives. Is coaching, schemes, play calling a result?

There is no one thing, but I will try to give my two cents on what I believe are the biggest issues:

Offense:  No vertical speed outside.  None at all.  A bunch of possession guys and a good slot WR in Boyd, but none of them get immediate space on their defender.  Ross could do that and week 1 we had over 400 yards passing.  Having Ross and Green on the field with Boyd and sometimes Tate would have made a huge difference.  That, combined with a lack of time to wait for a receiver to get open due to poor offensive line play (on third string LT, Price sucks, etc).  Those issues could be addressed quite easily in the offseason.  Now that they have seemingly tried to move on in QB, however, it will open a whole other can of worms.  

Defense:  Linebacker play.  It is so bad that the entire team on that side of the ball looks awful.  They get no depth in their drops on passing downs, and they have no side to side speed to help prevent RBs from getting the edge.  The middle of the field is open all day on short passes that turn in to easy 10 yard gains.  Most of the pounding the defense takes is not deep shots and they could generate some decent pass rush, but as is the opposite with Dalton, opposing QBs have an easy check down or WR wide open in the slot out of the gate because there is no LB coverage at all.  Combine that with the fact that the Bengals STILL play so damn much off coverage they just die a slow death as opposed to getting beat over the top.  Why you waste  you high draft picks on CBs and have them play a scheme that a practice squad guy could execute is beyond me.  

I won't even put it on coaching.  It is a lack of speed outside and a poor offensive line on offense and pathetic linebacker play on defense. 

My dream (I know I keep saying it) is get the first overall pick and trade it to the #2 or #3 team for a haul of draft picks and get Chase Young and try to get the QB in 2021.  That QB drafted next year will have to play and will get destroyed until this offensive line is improved.  And I hope the next QB is a mobile one.  

[Catmandude123]

(11-10-2019, 11:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The team would have to be for sale for someone to actually buy it.

Honestly, I think one of the reasons they spend so frugally is they are worried about inheritance taxes from when he dies...so they can keep the team in the family.

People in the know call BDO

[Catmandude123]

(11-11-2019, 02:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't think those guys are great by any means...but it's what the Bengals will do.

I'd say that with an average NFL Coach...we'd have 3 wins. With a really good staff...4-5 wins. The Steelers somehow have 5 wins with Rudolph playing and all of their other injuries.

The new coach would have to come to the Bengals locker room with a trunk full of Superman shirts and capes. To think the talent would be that much better is not very realistic. You think we would have three wins and fans would be happy? Three wins would move them back about six or seven spots in the draft. Sometimes bad things happen for a good reason. 

[chopperbobby]

(11-11-2019, 03:19 PM)Destro Wrote: Made a change at the bye and with an extra week had the greatest loss of the season. You win as a team, you lose as a team. This team sucks. A number one QB, a number one O-lineman and number one CB, all together, will not get this team to win. Wholesale changes are needed. Meanwhile, hopefully the poor team doesn't damage whatever talent we end up getting. Being hurt, getting Bengalized or leaving just as we are getting close to turning the corner.

But coach says we are close. He and his staff have seen how close they are. And when it clicks it will be fun. I am ready for the fun!

[TKUHL]

(11-12-2019, 01:20 AM)phil413 Wrote: Paul died, Mikey tried, Marvin middled, Tobin piddled

Well done. I like it.

[TKUHL]

Can we just start a Go Fund Me account to buy another team that will be County owned?

[MEBengalsFan]

(11-10-2019, 07:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, you take a roster that is mediocre even with an established NFL Head Coach...and you hire a HC who has very little experience...and let him hire a staff. Proven coaches see he's not ready to be a HC, so they turn you down. He hires his friends...who have no coordinator experience too. Then, he tries to copy schemes and practices from a legit NFL Team like the Rams including doing an easy training camp.

In games the playcalling is horrible. Players regress. And deep down, the players know the staff is terrible.

Also, glaring needs aren't addressed in free agency. And the team has very few scouts.

It's just a perfect storm of ineptness.

This team on the entire staff...our of the HC and 2 coordinators has 5 games of NFL coordinator experience going into this year. None of those guys had any experience preparing a team.

Honestly, my best case to fire the staff and start over is so we don't ruin the #1 overall pick. Bring a guy like Mike McCarthy in and let him hire a good OC and DC.

You make excellent points about the lack of experience by the coaching staff. The only thing the Bengals have going right for them is the Special Teams and that coach is one of the best in the league. 

At first the ZT hire seems liked a good move especially after the first game in the season where the Bengals out played the Seahawks. Soon after that game though the team simply fell apart and I blame the coaches for this as they simply don't seem to know how to game plan appropriately. 

[*ochocincos*]

(11-10-2019, 07:51 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Give us your most logical idea on just how things got as bad as they are now. Every position group is just pathetic, absolutely pathetic this year. Worse than last year. I’m sure most of the problems were building the past 4 years missing on draft picks while letting good players walk. But there has to be even more to it than that. Personally I think we have some good players, take the D for instance. The D line has everyone healthy yet they can’t do anything. So what gives. Is coaching, schemes, play calling a result?

I think it's obvious, is it not?

Draft - The Bengals' player philosophy has been to primarily draft and develop. They drafted a large number of players who took too long to develop or never blossomed at all.

Free Agency - As part of the above, they let their good players hit FA and go elsewhere in hopes that the drafted players behind them blossomed into good players to fill the void. They signed mid-to-lower-tier FAs as stopgaps.

Staffing - The Bengals went with unproven coaches for HC, OC, and DC. None have had good success calling plays anywhere, and it shows.


Scouting - The Bengals have the smallest scouting department in the league and require all of the coaches to double as scouts to help cover the lack of resources. The scouting department and staff have not done a good job of working together to find good talent, developing that talent, and building an effective game plan with that talent.

This all started in 2016 when we started to see Marvin Jones, Mohamed Sanu, and Andre Smith leave in FA. Their replacements didn't quite perform at the same level. It's been a downhill slope from there.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(11-13-2019, 11:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote:    
I think it's obvious, is it not?

Draft - The Bengals' player philosophy has been to primarily draft and develop. They drafted a large number of players who took too long to develop or never blossomed at all.

Free Agency - As part of the above, they let their good players hit FA and go elsewhere in hopes that the drafted players behind them blossomed into good players to fill the void. They signed mid-to-lower-tier FAs as stopgaps.

Staffing - The Bengals went with unproven coaches for HC, OC, and DC. None have had good success calling plays anywhere, and it shows.


Scouting - The Bengals have the smallest scouting department in the league and require all of the coaches to double as scouts to help cover the lack of resources. The scouting department and staff have not done a good job of working together to find good talent, developing that talent, and building an effective game plan with that talent.

This all started in 2016 when we started to see Marvin Jones, Mohamed Sanu, and Andre Smith leave in FA. Their replacements didn't quite perform at the same level. It's been a downhill slope from there.

It's the Bengals version of the Penrose Stairs.