Bengals need Joe Burrow as QB

[guyofthetiger]

I know Finley only played one game. However, I'm looking at the draft and the Bengals should pick Joe Burrow from LSU. I would trade Dalton and not resign Green. We should have traded them at the deadline and actually used some high draft picks to rebuild. Mike Brown is slow to make changes. I personally am ready for a new direction for this team. We are 0-9 for a reason.

[THE PISTONS]

Looking at QB development. They often have a "jump" in their production at the age of 22/23. Sometimes that happens in college but typically that's in the NFL.

I wonder if Joe Burrow might be experiencing it this year at LSU. Tua Tagovailoa may see it his sophomore NFL season.

— JG (@JoeGoodberry) November 11, 2019

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I've got more data to look at and compare, but just going back to the last 5 draft classes, just Carson Wentz saw his big jump come at 24 years old. Jared Goff went from "bust" to good starter at 23. When D.Watson turned 23, he caught fire. Mahomes MVP at 23.

— JG (@JoeGoodberry) November 11, 2019

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This could also just be typical NFL year 2-3 jumps and it doesn't matter what age. Just seems that you can pinpoint some of the "busts" better when you see their jumps happen at 22 in college or 23 in the pros. Even Bortles, Mariota, Tannehill, Winston had best years at that age.

— JG (@JoeGoodberry) November 11, 2019

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Goodberry is reaching hard there lol.

[R3stangs]

I quite genuinely feel sorry for any college player that gets drafted to the Bengals. At this point the likelihood is your career disappears into a black hole of futility while you make significantly less money over the course of it than you likely would have if you were drafted by a real team.

What are the rules if you get drafted don't sign a rookie contract? Do you have to sit out or can you sign as and UDFA elsewhere?

[JSR18]

I know what you're saying. I'm big on Joe Burrow also. However, until this "thing" gets fixed, I think we may have to start thinking in a different direction. Joe Burrow is a starting QB in the SEC, which means he is surrounded with the best talent in college football. The best recievers, the best running backs the best tight ends and the best Oline. You bring him here with this shit show and he'll be ruined and Bengalized in 2 years.

My different direction is use Finley for the rest of this year. Start trying to beef up the Oline, Dline and LBers. Along the way we try to make a deal to snag Jalen Hurts. Seems that to be a competitive team nowadays one needs a dual threat QB (running and throwing).

Just my $.02...

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Think. Please.

Putting Joe Burrow behind the worst offensive line in recorded history would be the death knell for the Cincinnati Bengals. No quarterback could be a dominant player behind Jim Turner’s “fragile five.” Even worse is the Bengals’ horrendous defense. I like Joe Burrow too but his NFL career will be short if it starts in Cincinnati.

[JSR18]

(11-11-2019, 01:01 PM)R3stangs Wrote: I quite genuinely feel sorry for any college player that gets drafted to the Bengals. At this point the likelihood is your career disappears into a black hole of futility while you make significantly less money over the course of it than you likely would have if you were drafted by a real team.

What are the rules if you get drafted don't sign a rookie contract? Do you have to sit out or can you sign as and UDFA elsewhere?

  I believe you sit out that entire year and re-enter the draft the following year... 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 01:23 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Think.  Please.

Putting Joe Burrow behind the worst offensive line in recorded history would be the death knell for the Cincinnati Bengals.  No quarterback could be a dominant player behind Jim Turner’s “fragile five.”  Even worse is the Bengals’ horrendous defense.  I like Joe Burrow too but his NFL career will be short if it starts in Cincinnati.

They've been trying to fix the offensive line for 3-4 years. It gets worse.

[Destro]

Does he tackle, too, because even passing for 4 TDs a game ( with this horrible line, running game, banged up receiving corp ) isn't enough when the defense is playing two hand touch.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(11-11-2019, 02:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They've been trying to fix the offensive line for 3-4 years. It gets worse.

This is true, but I will add that "fixing" the OLine by drafting injured players like OG was won't help you chances of finding the OLine guys for the future.  Fisher had a medical issue that wasn't known until after we drafted him.  While I know things are found out when they are found out, you would hope that the medical staff would do their due diligence and double / triple check boxes to make sure the player is 100%.

Price had his injury as well and Williams was completely unexpected.  We traded for Glenn who has been malingering as much as he can (I wonder if it is because he doesn't like Jim Turner, who was a part of the Miami incident).

I think ZT expected to have Williams and Glenn to start the season, possibly Boling too.  All of that went out the window when Williams got injured.  Boling retired and Glenn as stated doesn't want to play here.

I would love to have the "reporters" ask ZT if he thinks bringing in Turner was a big mistake considering his role in the Incognito/Martin saga, then follow up with if he thinks that the players aren't performing due to Turner being the OLine coach and if he would consider moving away from Turner and trying to bring back Pollack or getting someone else.

I am serious that I think our OLine issues are due to Turner more than the players.  Turner actually makes Piano Man look good.

[reuben.ahmed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 03:14 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: This is true, but I will add that "fixing" the OLine by drafting injured players like OG was won't help you chances of finding the OLine guys for the future.  Fisher had a medical issue that wasn't known until after we drafted him.  While I know things are found out when they are found out, you would hope that the medical staff would do their due diligence and double / triple check boxes to make sure the player is 100%.

Price had his injury as well and Williams was completely unexpected.  We traded for Glenn who has been malingering as much as he can (I wonder if it is because he doesn't like Jim Turner, who was a part of the Miami incident).

I think ZT expected to have Williams and Glenn to start the season, possibly Boling too.  All of that went out the window when Williams got injured.  Boling retired and Glenn as stated doesn't want to play here.

I would love to have the "reporters" ask ZT if he thinks bringing in Turner was a big mistake considering his role in the Incognito/Martin saga, then follow up with if he thinks that the players aren't performing due to Turner being the OLine coach and if he would consider moving away from Turner and trying to bring back Pollack or getting someone else.

I am serious that I think our OLine issues are due to Turner more than the players.  Turner actually makes Piano Man look good.

Taylor has been asked questions about Turner and gives Turner 100% support.

Were you aware that Taylor got hired at UC as the offensive coordinator because of Jim Turner recommending him to Tuberville? Taylor won't turn on Turner. They're buddies.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(11-11-2019, 03:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Taylor has been asked questions about Turner and gives Turner 100% support.

Were you aware that Taylor got hired at UC as the offensive coordinator because of Jim Turner recommending him to Tuberville? Taylor won't turn on Turner. They're buddies.

That's a problem then.  A good GM would address that immediately.

I don't care how close you are to the person, what I care about is results.

So when ZT said he wanted to bring in Turner.  The questions that should've be asked was "Can he coach?", "Will the players respond to him considering his history?".  Then "OK, we will give it a shot." if the answers are satisfactory.

At this point in the season with the record what it is, I would have both guys in my office and ask them why the OLine looks so bad?  Why is Glenn basically sitting out this season? (I would also have a 1 on 1 with Glenn to find out what his issue really is.)  Having meetings with the position group of players I would be asking if anyone has a problem with playing for Turner.  This doesn't mean I don't hire Turner, but I want to make sure that the guys we get are willing to play for him, if no one will play for him then I would have no choice but to veto ZT in his selection.  If ZT doesn't like it, then he can quit.  Again I don't care about the personal feelings, my goal is to win, in order to win you have to make sure everyone is on the same page. 

Good sports journalist would try to pry out of the current players what their thoughts on Turner is.  They would also reach out to Boling and Westerman and find out why they retired at this point.  Make sure that the retirement is because they wanted to and not because of any issues they have with Turner.

Again Price was drafted with Pollack as the OLine coach, his abysmal performance I believe has to do with the coaching and not because of his ability.  I know someone has lamely stated that "he has short arms and lunges", a good coach would be able to work with him on this and get him to stop with the lunging, from what I read he has a "strong anchor that is hard to move" so he shouldn't be lunging anyway.  He should be keeping his center and moving in a way to keep that anchor while not allowing the defender to go by him.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 04:24 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: That's a problem then.  A good GM would address that immediately.

I don't care how close you are to the person, what I care about is results.

So when ZT said he wanted to bring in Turner.  The questions that should've be asked was "Can he coach?", "Will the players respond to him considering his history?".  Then "OK, we will give it a shot." if the answers are satisfactory.

At this point in the season with the record what it is, I would have both guys in my office and ask them why the OLine looks so bad?  Why is Glenn basically sitting out this season? (I would also have a 1 on 1 with Glenn to find out what his issue really is.)  Having meetings with the position group of players I would be asking if anyone has a problem with playing for Turner.  This doesn't mean I don't hire Turner, but I want to make sure that the guys we get are willing to play for him, if no one will play for him then I would have no choice but to veto ZT in his selection.  If ZT doesn't like it, then he can quit.  Again I don't care about the personal feelings, my goal is to win, in order to win you have to make sure everyone is on the same page. 

Good sports journalist would try to pry out of the current players what their thoughts on Turner is.  They would also reach out to Boling and Westerman and find out why they retired at this point.  Make sure that the retirement is because they wanted to and not because of any issues they have with Turner.

Again Price was drafted with Pollack as the OLine coach, his abysmal performance I believe has to do with the coaching and not because of his ability.  I know someone has lamely stated that "he has short arms and lunges", a good coach would be able to work with him on this and get him to stop with the lunging, from what I read he has a "strong anchor that is hard to move" so he shouldn't be lunging anyway.  He should be keeping his center and moving in a way to keep that anchor while not allowing the defender to go by him.

Agreed. It's funny though because the board largely viewed it as a positive that Taylor was allowed to pick his own coaches. All he really did was hire friends though with little high level experience.

Turner was the most questionable of all. Not only did he not have good offensive lines in the Pros...but he had character issues. He also seems like he's probably a yeller...

[OswaldsLegacy]

(11-11-2019, 04:33 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Agreed. It's funny though because the board largely viewed it as a positive that Taylor was allowed to pick his own coaches. All he really did was hire friends though with little high level experience.

Turner was the most questionable of all. Not only did he not have good offensive lines in the Pros...but he had character issues. He also seems like he's probably a yeller...

I will admit that I actually thought ZT was a good hire.  I am still not writing him off yet, however with the decision he is opening himself up to be scrutinized.

Hands down the worst decision he made this offseason was moving on from Pollack to bring in Turner.  Of course that is easy for us to say at this point in the season with the way things stand now, but given his history and the way that whole saga played out in Miami, it isn't a leap to think that the struggles on this OLine might have something to do with him.

Again, it is easy to say so now, yet a well run organization would have meetings to make sure that the issue isn't Turner.  If it is Turner then Turner is gone, simple as that.  If it isn't Turner then find out what players and type of players that Turner needs and get them for him.  If he still can't get the job done with "his guys" then it is time to move on and get someone else.

I don't want it to seem that I am letting the players dictate who the coaches are, but if players refuse to play for the man then that is a big issue.  If the players don't care about his history or if it is only a few players, then you have to move on from those few players. 

For instance, if Glenn is the only one that has a issue with playing for Turner, then you trade Glenn as quickly as possible.  Don't just list him as out with a concussion, since many players have come back from concussions in 2-3 weeks.  Glenn doesn't want to play here, find out why and then address it accordingly.

I hope this organization does this, but from what I see and what is reported on, I don't think they are doing these things.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 04:58 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I will admit that I actually thought ZT was a good hire.  I am still not writing him off yet, however with the decision he is opening himself up to be scrutinized.

Hands down the worst decision he made this offseason was moving on from Pollack to bring in Turner.  Of course that is easy for us to say at this point in the season with the way things stand now, but given his history and the way that whole saga played out in Miami, it isn't a leap to think that the struggles on this OLine might have something to do with him.

Again, it is easy to say so now, yet a well run organization would have meetings to make sure that the issue isn't Turner.  If it is Turner then Turner is gone, simple as that.  If it isn't Turner then find out what players and type of players that Turner needs and get them for him.  If he still can't get the job done with "his guys" then it is time to move on and get someone else.

I don't want it to seem that I am letting the players dictate who the coaches are, but if players refuse to play for the man then that is a big issue.  If the players don't care about his history or if it is only a few players, then you have to move on from those few players. 

For instance, if Glenn is the only one that has a issue with playing for Turner, then you trade Glenn as quickly as possible.  Don't just list him as out with a concussion, since many players have come back from concussions in 2-3 weeks.  Glenn doesn't want to play here, find out why and then address it accordingly.

I hope this organization does this, but from what I see and what is reported on, I don't think they are doing these things.

I feel like IF Taylor wasn't calling the plays...that we'd just want the Coordinators fired instead of him.

That said, he was brought in to be a modern offensive mind and seeing how he calls plays...it's obvious that he's not that. For him to succeed, they will need a great offensive coordinator and great defensive coordinator. Because Taylor isn't a talented enough coach to transcend that.

Or I guess we could get a HOF level QB that makes the entire franchise seem better...until they run him off.

You very well may have a great point on Turner. Perkins retired too. I'm confident that Boling retiring was medical though.

How did Jonah tear a rotator cuff during non contact drills too? That's never really been addressed.

[Catmandude123]

(11-11-2019, 12:30 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I know Finley only played one game. However, I'm looking at the draft and the Bengals should pick Joe Burrow from LSU. I would trade Dalton and not resign Green. We should have traded them at the deadline and actually used some high draft picks to rebuild. Mike Brown is slow to make changes. I personally am ready for a new direction for this team. We are 0-9 for a reason.

Inject Burrows into yesterdays game and we only lose 35-20. Having the first overall pick with a blossoming QB along with so many QB hungry teams gives the Bengals a chance to cut a year or maybe two off the rebuild. But when opportunity knocks Mike Brown will probably ignore it.