I miss Marvin

[Rubekahn29]

(11-11-2019, 02:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I do agree with that. His fire was gone here. The organization beat him down.

That said, there were better coaches out there than Taylor.

ie...Taylor failing doesn't mean it was bad to move on from Marvin. For all we know, Marvin may not have wanted to come back.

Yeah, I think it's fair to say this coach and staff have not worked, but using that as a reason to suggest moving on from Marvin Ludicrous. We had 16 years to evaluate Marvin and Co. 16 years, less 9 years without playoff appearance, and 7 with first round exit. Not good enough. 

[Pat5775]

Just because Zac looks like he may be a worse head coach than Marv, it does not mean that Marvin wasn’t a bad head coach.

[*rfaulk34*]

Where is the negative rep when you need it?

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 03:07 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Just because Zac looks like he may be a worse head coach than Marv, it does not mean that Marvin wasn’t  a bad head coach.

I don't know that Marvin was a bad coach. It's hard to say. It's got to be pretty hard to win a championship for a Mike Brown owned team.

Marvin got the team to above average to good...but not great.

You see what Taylor is doing here. He can't even win a game.

[Bengalholic]

(11-11-2019, 02:46 AM)Trademark Wrote: I truly believe this team would of been 6-3 at this point in the year with Marvin. Zac Taylor is a geek in way over his head

Then why didn't Marvin have a winning record for his last 3 years here? Injuries? Bad o-line? Crappy defense? Incompetent front office? Etc,etc, etc? Well, Zac inherited all those same issues and doesn't have 14, 15, 16 years of experience as an NFL HC. 

Not even trying to defend Zac's performance so far, but to say Marvin would be winning right now is just silly, because he was the head coach for 3 years of this 4 year losing streak. 

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(11-11-2019, 01:06 PM)Trademark Wrote: Marvin had this team when healthy at 4-1 last season. I also guarantee AJ would if already been back if Marvin was still here. Zac Taylor is a joke

4-1 last year was a mirage. The D had sucked and it was obvious other teams were going to adapt to the O given how shitty the OL was. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Meh.....

[fredtoast]

(11-11-2019, 02:46 AM)Trademark Wrote: I truly believe this team would of been 6-3 at this point in the year with Marvin. 

He is on pace for almost 1100 receiving yards and 11 tds catches, but I don't think he would make that big of a difference on this team.  Lack of WR play is way down on our list of problems.

[Catmandude123]

(11-11-2019, 03:54 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: 4-1 last year was a mirage. The D had sucked and it was obvious other teams were going to adapt to the O given how shitty the OL was. 

A coach with 16 years finished the season at 2-9. While Zac may not be the answer Marvin definitely isn't either.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 03:40 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Then why didn't Marvin have a winning record for his last 3 years here? Injuries? Bad o-line? Crappy defense? Incompetent front office? Etc,etc, etc? Well, Zac inherited all those same issues and doesn't have 14, 15, 16 years of experience as an NFL HC. 

Not even trying to defend Zac's performance so far, but to say Marvin would be winning right now is just silly, because he was the head coach for 3 years of this 4 year losing streak. 

I will say that...man what a wasted opportunity this year. We played (and lost) to some really bad teams...and the weakest part of our schedule is still coming.

[George Cantstandya]

I miss when Trademark was suspended from the forum for a few weeks. Just kidding buddy, you certainly add some flavor. Boring and worn out, but still flavor. As bland as that may be.

[GodFather]

(11-11-2019, 02:46 AM)Trademark Wrote: I truly believe this team would of been 6-3 at this point in the year with Marvin. Zac Taylor is a geek in way over his head

I dont miss him one bit. Id rather be winless then put up with another one of his inept seasons.

[Millhouse]

I think we would have had won at least 1 or 2 games by now with Marv, but nothing close to a winning record with this roster. It was past due to move on him from him as well.

However I will say this about him. I think as time goes on, he could be given more praise than what he has been given. I want to say that he overachieved here while working with the worst front office in the NFL. For what he was able to accomplish given the circumstances might be close to a miracle, as winning in the playoffs would have been a miracle. Just look at the years before him, and now this year. Those teams sucked outside of the Blake & Pickens 8-8 year, and this 2019 team could be the worst Bengals team of all time.

[Catmandude123]

(11-11-2019, 04:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I will say that...man what a wasted opportunity this year. We played (and lost) to some really bad teams...and the weakest part of our schedule is still coming.

Seahawks , 49ers, Bills, Steelers, Ravens twice, Rams, all have winning records. The only games we really should have had a chance at were the Cards and Jags. The reality is the Bengals were coming off a season when they finished the season with a 2-9 record. The optimism was from all the returning players from IR and the draft. AJ went down first day and Williams the first rounder never saw the field. Things kind of snowballed from that point.

[jj22]

Zac gets a full offseason, and we'll see if the FO is really any different (fA/trades/draft) to signal the problem was the late start to building the staff evaluating the team. We aren't winning next year unless the FO shocks, and if we fire him will anyone want to coach here? The cat is out the bag, and it's looking like it's been all Marvin, all along. I know there are only 32 position in all the world, but a HC position here could quickly turn into a career killer. I'd say they are stuck.

We just need 1 win to avoid 0-16.

Then someone has to take the fall (Tobin. ZT was his hire, and he's not family). Changes to the staff seems key to getting the offseason we should have had last offseason, but now starting Jan 1st. And having coaches at the East/West/Seniorbowl game/practices should help. Tobin telling us they weren't needed, and the scouts (2, who probably just watched the game) could handle. They were. That's why we got picks like Sample.

A new DC (and his staff), a new Oline and RB coach, adding Senior Offensive Assistant and keeping the OC cause wouldn't want to upset the new Oline coach, would go a long ways to getting the future started right. Or at least some hope that they know there's a problem.

This FO is bad and was ill prepared to help ZT out with a late start. They didn't know anyone free agent wise but the players they had worked with (Brown/Hart). Or players the new coaches knew (Webb/Jerry). They were probably tops as far as choices presented to ZT and Co. Turner is all on Zac. But who knows if that was his first choice? They weren't signing assistant coaches and Washington wasn't letting Callahan go that late in the offseason). He can fix that. Most HC's could have came in late and took off. We should have known there was problems when everyone around here said they had the assistant coaches lined up and ready to be announced when ZT was official, and they were just now talking to veteran DC's.....

I don't know if next year will be better, and I doubt it, but we'll know quickly this offseason if Marvin is really to be missed, or is this just the worse run franchise stuck in the 80's and unable to adapt to today's modern NFL no matter who Coaches.

[Bengalholic]

(11-11-2019, 04:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I will say that...man what a wasted opportunity this year. We played (and lost) to some really bad teams...and the weakest part of our schedule is still coming.

It's been one big crapfest for sure, and very disappointing in terms of how bad it's gotten. 

That's why I'm a little conflicted about Zac. There are things that I don't like, or at least question, about him right now...but at the same time, I would like to see what he does with a full offseason, another draft and free agency period, what decisions he makes about the staff, etc.

Having said that, it is a risk, because it's possible that he's just not cut out to be a head coach. Maybe I'm crazy, but I just feel we need one more year to make that determination. EVERYTHING is such a mess, there just isn't really any easy answers with the franchise right now. Definitely not going to be a quick fix no matter who the coach is, IMO. 

[Catmandude123]

(11-11-2019, 03:30 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't know that Marvin was a bad coach. It's hard to say. It's got to be pretty hard to win a championship for a Mike Brown owned team.

Marvin got the team to above average to good...but not great.

You see what Taylor is doing here. He can't even win a game.

Marvin's brand is all over this team. Everyone believes that Zac inherited a powerhouse of a team and turning things around was going to be like some magic spell. The team has been a train wreck for three years straight. In the spring when the draft happens we get optimistic. Reality has kicked us every step of the way. With another draft and an upgrade in the assistants maybe he turns thing around . The truth is while maybe we would have one or two wins with a coach like Billichick but with the way things have shaken out we weren't going to the play offs. 

[Marlon23]

LOOK AT THAT FORM

[THE PISTONS]

(11-11-2019, 05:26 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's been one big crapfest for sure, and very disappointing in terms of how bad it's gotten. 

That's why I'm a little conflicted about Zac. There are things that I don't like, or at least question, about him right now...but at the same time, I would like to see him with a full offseason, another draft and free agency period, what decisions he makes about the staff, etc.

Having said that, it is a risk, because it's possible that he's just not cut out to be a head coach. Maybe I'm crazy, but I just feel we need one more year to make that determination. EVERYTHING is such a mess, there just isn't really any easy answers with the franchise right now. Definitely not going to be a quick fix no matter who the coach is, IMO. 

Without being able to peak behind the curtain of how the Bengals are ran...it's hard to know who makes what decisions. But, at some point...someone evaluated the tape from last year and was like 'We need to re-sign Preston Brown. Oh...and lets play him and Vigil in a 2 LB set. We'll be fine. We'll throw a 3rd Round pick at a LB too.'

At minimum, we need an offensive coordinator. We need defensive coaches fired. We need to sign or draft a star LB or two.

The thing that I can't get past on Taylor is the main selling point on him was that he was a young offiensive mind with a modern system. He's been a TERRIBLE playcaller though.

So then what other traits does he have that scream of him being a good HC?

re: The Zac being the OC. Being the HC of the Bengals means you need to be the PR guy. Scout. Gameplanner. Coach. And all the other stuff...

AND he decides to make himself the playcaller too! That's how naieve he is!

[Bengalholic]

(11-11-2019, 01:06 PM)Trademark Wrote: Marvin had this team when healthy at 4-1 last season. I also guarantee AJ would if already been back if Marvin was still here. Zac Taylor is a joke

Hell yeah, we would've had winning records in each of the previous 3 years if only Marvin had been coaching us.