Chase Young or Joe Burrow ?

[coachmcneil71]

(12-01-2019, 01:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You don’t draft any player (especially a QB) for just their rookie season. You grab Burrow because you might not get a better chance at an elite franchise QB.

I agree! However, some here seem to think that he's going to lead this putrid team to the promise land as a rookie. That's laughable.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-01-2019, 01:51 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I agree! However, some here seem to think that he's going to lead this putrid team to the promise land as a rookie. That's laughable.

I have not seen a single person say Burrow will win a SB (I assume that’s what you mean by “promised land”) his first season...

[Fan_in_Kettering]

I don’t know why this is even a debate. Mike Brown will pick a quarterback, period.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-01-2019, 02:05 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I don’t know why this is even a debate. Mike Brown will pick a quarterback, period.

Every GM in the league would do the same if they had our current roster. Trying to make drafting Burrow sound like a dumb decision, or the wrong thing to do just because it’s Mike Brown is getting annoying fast.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-01-2019, 02:34 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Every GM in the league would do the same if they had our current roster. Trying to make drafting Burrow sound like a dumb decision, or the wrong thing to do just because it’s Mike Brown is getting annoying fast.

I want you to be right about this. I want to be wrong.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-01-2019, 01:43 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Just go look at the HOF QBs and it will show you what the success rate is for drafting QBs. I already told you what it was once, around 54% in round one.

If 54% of HOF QBs come from the first round, that is where to look.  The remaining 46%, spread over the other 6 rounds and free agency means that any avenue other than the 1st round has a less than 7% chance of producing a HOFer.

Where are you putting your trust, in 54% or <7%??

[cinci4life]

Just saw this article about NFL personnel weighing in on the Young/Burrow debate.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/12/1/20989199/nfl-personnel-weigh-in-on-chase-young-vs-joe-burrow-for-first-overall-pick?fbclid=IwAR0gB_hxOSAa1aeLr4xbnqnkjVkeIpT-zMAk94Vwr-k_FMA1LA4av5ETP58

[Au165]

(12-01-2019, 01:39 PM)cinci4life Wrote: Just saw this article about NFL personnel weighing in on the Young/Burrow debate.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/12/1/20989199/nfl-personnel-weigh-in-on-chase-young-vs-joe-burrow-for-first-overall-pick?fbclid=IwAR0gB_hxOSAa1aeLr4xbnqnkjVkeIpT-zMAk94Vwr-k_FMA1LA4av5ETP58

Yea, it's almost like someone here has been trying to sell people on this for a month or so now...  

[*Synric*]

Some PFF stuff on Joe Burrow and Chase Young

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-power-5-players-of-the-year

Quote:Joe Burrow, QB, LSU
Burrow was the nation's best player at the most important position in all of team sports. He led all quarterbacks in overall and in passing grade by a comfortable margin as he dominated in every game. He was the nation's most accurate quarterback on non-screen passes, a real indication of how well a quarterback can throw to receivers downfield. When clumping his passes on throws targeted at least 10 yards downfield, you can see where Burrow's real bread and butter was during the 2019 regular season.

He completed 101-of-152 pass attempts targeted at least 10 yards downfield for 2,474 passing yards, 31 touchdowns and just six interceptions. His 29 big-time throws were second-most among all quarterbacks, and he led all quarterbacks with at least 100 of those attempts 10+ yards downfield with a ridiculous 69.1% adjusted completion percentage. He threw receivers open and limited even those contested-catch, 50-50 opportunities with relative ease, as he's taken the Tigers to new heights in 2019.

The Heisman Trophy is his. The honor of being the first overall pick in the 2020 NFL Draft is his. The college football world is his.

Quote:Chase Young, Edge, Ohio State
Young was the nation's most dominant player regardless of position whenever he stepped on the field in 2019. No player has ever done the kind of things that Young was able to accomplish in the regular season, finishing the year as the highest-graded defensive player that we've ever graded in our six years. His 97.0 overall grade is the highest grade of any player on either side of the ball this year, and his 97.1 pass-rushing grade is clear of anyone else that we've ever graded.

He brought in 47 total pressures on just 242 pass-rushes, including 18 sacks, four QB hits and another 25 hurries. He led the nation's edge defenders by forcing six total fumbles and recorded another eight stops in the run game to round out his skill set. However, his pass-rushing is so far clear and above the rest of the country that there is no catching him. Young obtained Heisman Trophy consideration for good reason, and though he likely won't win it, he certainly was deserving of the notion of being the first defensive player since 1998 to win the prestigious award.

For the season, Young won 29.6% of his pass-rush attempts and that comes with the knowledge that every offense schemed against him and put forth specific game plans in an effort to stop him. In fact, those schemes worked so well that Young had another 27 pass-rush snaps that he beat his defender but the opposing quarterback threw a pass with such a speed that it was too quick for Young to even register a pressure — he was that good this year.

[Au165]

(12-04-2019, 10:15 PM)Synric Wrote: Some PFF stuff on Joe Burrow and Chase Young

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-power-5-players-of-the-year

When I keep telling people Young will come out the highest graded defender we have seen in 15 years, it isn't hyperbole as some keep trying to pretend. The scouts take on him mirrors PFF's grade in terms of being free and clear of even some of the great rushers we have seen come out in recent years. The "There are generational pass rushers every year" line people keep trying to use is simply not true, Young is the best prospect we have seen at his position in a LONG time. 

I have actually come around to the fact we will probably take Burrow, but it still will hurt.

[Whatever]

(12-05-2019, 09:08 AM)Au165 Wrote: When I keep telling people Young will come out the highest graded defender we have seen in 15 years, it isn't hyperbole as some keep trying to pretend. The scouts take on him mirrors PFF's grade in terms of being free and clear of even some of the great rushers we have seen come out in recent years. The "There are generational pass rushers every year" line people keep trying to use is simply not true, Young is the best prospect we have seen at his position in a LONG time. 

I have actually come around to the fact we will probably take Burrow, but it still will hurt.

I think some people tend to marginalize other prospects to make their guy seem more appealing.

While I think Burrow should be the pick, Chase Young is a monster and an amazing prospect.  Both would be great picks for the Bengals.  I wouldn't be disappointed with either.

[*ochocincos*]

Offense is performing worse than defense this year, so...
FYI, the average Points For for the Bengals this year is just below 15. Points Allowed is averaging 24.8.
Given how the modern NFL is catered more towards offenses nowadays and the Bengals supposedly have an offensive-minded HC, this is absurdly bad.

[Au165]

(12-05-2019, 11:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Offense is performing worse than defense this year, so...
FYI, the average Points For for the Bengals this year is just below 15. Points Allowed is averaging 24.8.
Given how the modern NFL is catered more towards offenses nowadays and the Bengals supposedly have an offensive-minded HC, this is absurdly bad.

Bad lines expose offenses, the Rams struggles this year at times on offense is due to the rapid degradation of their O line. Until the O line issues are fixed the offense will be bad, maybe not 31st in scoring bad, but bad as we have seen the last 4 years.

[sandwedge]

(12-05-2019, 09:08 AM)Au165 Wrote: When I keep telling people Young will come out the highest graded defender we have seen in 15 years, it isn't hyperbole as some keep trying to pretend. The scouts take on him mirrors PFF's grade in terms of being free and clear of even some of the great rushers we have seen come out in recent years. The "There are generational pass rushers every year" line people keep trying to use is simply not true, Young is the best prospect we have seen at his position in a LONG time. 

I have actually come around to the fact we will probably take Burrow, but it still will hurt.

Totally agree! We take Burrow, you can bet he isn't watching from the bench next season, he will be traumatized by week 4 behind this line. 
You take Young and your defensive blitz schemes are through the roof! 

[*Synric*]

(12-05-2019, 12:19 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Totally agree! We take Burrow, you can bet he isn't watching from the bench next season, he will be traumatized by week 4 behind this line. 
You take Young and your defensive blitz schemes are through the roof! 

 
People keep bringing up the line but the Bengals know they have to add upgrades there. They were looking at RT at the top of the second round last year before the season even started but there was a run early. Dont be surprised whoever they draft in the first at the top of the second they are going to be looking at offensive line hard. 

A few names that will be there possible Alex Leatherwood, Prince Tego Wanogho, Austin Jackson, Josh Jones...

[Au165]

(12-05-2019, 12:25 PM)Synric Wrote:  
People keep bringing up the line but the Bengals know they have to add upgrades there. They were looking at RT at the top of the second round last year before the season even started but there was a run early. Dont be surprised whoever they draft in the first at the top of the second they are going to be looking at offensive line hard. 

A few names that will be there possible Alex Leatherwood, Prince Tego Wanogho, Austin Jackson, Josh Jones...

Right, but you essentially will be starting two rookie tackles and who knows what at LG. That will be a lie that still struggles heavily year 1 talented or not. 

[*Synric*]

(12-05-2019, 12:44 PM)Au165 Wrote: Right, but you essentially will be starting two rookie tackles and who knows what at LG. That will be a lie that still struggles heavily year 1 talented or not. 

Yea it's likely but anyway you look at it they have to build an offensive line because that's the biggest issue with the team right now.

[Au165]

(12-05-2019, 12:46 PM)Synric Wrote: Yea it's likely but anyway you look at it they have to build an offensive line because that's the biggest issue with the team right now.

Correct, but the concerns about Burrow coming in and being pummeled are well founded is my point. Short of signing an established RT he will get hit a lot next year. 

[*Synric*]

(12-05-2019, 12:50 PM)Au165 Wrote: Correct, but the concerns about Burrow coming in and being pummeled are well founded is my point. Short of signing an established RT he will get hit a lot next year. 

It's a good thing rules have changed then they can barely touch QBs now. I think Burrow will be a guy that draws an above average amount of rough the passer calls lol because he likes to stand in the pocket a take those hits to make plays.

Dude has ice in his veins.

[Au165]

(12-05-2019, 01:04 PM)Synric Wrote: It's a good thing rules have changed then they can barely touch QBs now. I think Burrow will be a guy that draws an above average amount of rough the passer calls lol because he likes to stand in the pocket a take those hits to make plays.

Dude has ice in his veins.

...Or he ends up hurt because he takes too many unnecessary shots. The reality is we all appreciate the guy who stands in and delivers but those same guys are often guys who eat sacks waiting for something to open or take unnecessary hits. It's kind of like the HB who delivers the big blow instead of running out of bounds, those dudes lose tread quickly with that attitude but we love to see it in the moment.