Posts: 40,628
Threads: 1,062
Joined: May 2015
As I have said before, I don't think it is fair to judge Finley after just three games. He did not work with the first team untill 5 weeks ago, and he does not have the talent around him to succeed. But I do want to point out one issue for which many people praised Finley and even claimed he was superior to Dalton. That is "pocket awareness" and his ability to avoid sacks.
Finley does not have enough attempts to qualify, but if he did he would rank next to last (34th) in sack percentage (11.2) ahead of only Marcus Mariota. Dalton ranks 24th (7.9). The league average is 6.9%.
Finley is also one of only 4 QBs who have more fumbles (4) than games played (3). Danial Jones has 14 fumbles in just 10 games; Gardner Minshaw has 11 in 9; and Mike Glennon has 3 in 2.
Give Finley a full training camp and regular season to get used to an NFL pass rush and he will likely improve, but he certainly did not deserve all the praise he got for being able to avoid sacks or extend plays.
Posts: 20,702
Threads: 98
Reputation:
192236
Joined: May 2015
Location: Bluegrass Region
(11-25-2019, 02:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As I have said before, I don't think it is fair to judge Finley after just three games. He did not work with the first team untill 5 weeks ago, and he does not have the talent around him to succeed. But I do want to point out one issue for which many people praised Finley and even claimed he was superior to Dalton. That is "pocket awareness" and his ability to avoid sacks.
Finley does not have enough attempts to qualify, but if he did he would rank next to last (34th) in sack percentage (11.2) ahead of only Marcus Mariota. Dalton ranks 24th (7.9). The league average is 6.9%.
Finley is also one of only 4 QBs who have more fumbles (4) than games played (3). Danial Jones has 14 fumbles in just 10 games; Gardner Minshaw has 11 in 9; and Mike Glennon has 3 in 2.
Give Finley a full training camp and regular season to get used to an NFL pass rush and he will likely improve, but he certainly did not deserve all the praise he got for being able to avoid sacks or extend plays.
I've said the same thing without the stats to back my eye test. Nice work.
"Better send those refunds..."
Posts: 11,469
Threads: 19
Reputation:
78800
Joined: May 2015
Location: Where Mr. Kotter was before returning
You know it's bad when there wasn't a doubt in my mind that he would fumble when I saw Dupree coming.
I'm gonna break every record they've got. I'm tellin' you right now. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but it's goin' to get done.
- Ja'Marr Chase
April 2021
Posts: 3,425
Threads: 238
Reputation:
14204
Joined: Oct 2016
Findley simply for starters lacks a NFL arm. I've seen alot of NFL QBs over my years . Findley has among the worst
He makes Paul Justin look like Carson Palmer.
Findley has more issues than pocket awareness.
He cannot place the ball even over the correct shoulder .
His ball lacks so much velocity his targets have gear down and
Wait for the ball.
His presnap reads are questionable.
That throw to TB was all Boyd. Findley hung that up for so long
TB could have gotten a Big Gulp at 7 11 and came back
Posts: 1,950
Threads: 52
Reputation:
5003
Joined: Mar 2017
(11-25-2019, 02:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As I have said before, I don't think it is fair to judge Finley after just three games. He did not work with the first team untill 5 weeks ago, and he does not have the talent around him to succeed. But I do want to point out one issue for which many people praised Finley and even claimed he was superior to Dalton. That is "pocket awareness" and his ability to avoid sacks.
Finley does not have enough attempts to qualify, but if he did he would rank next to last (34th) in sack percentage (11.2) ahead of only Marcus Mariota. Dalton ranks 24th (7.9). The league average is 6.9%.
Finley is also one of only 4 QBs who have more fumbles (4) than games played (3). Danial Jones has 14 fumbles in just 10 games; Gardner Minshaw has 11 in 9; and Mike Glennon has 3 in 2.
Give Finley a full training camp and regular season to get used to an NFL pass rush and he will likely improve, but he certainly did not deserve all the praise he got for being able to avoid sacks or extend plays.
While the defense gave Finley more chances than Dalton got(eight three and outs. Dalton only mustered up three points against the Steelers. He was also 0-10 in his last games against Pitt. What ever happens after this season its pretty obvious neither one is the long term answer for the Bengals if they want to go anywhere in the future.
Posts: 11,767
Threads: 706
Reputation:
54790
Joined: Jun 2015
(11-25-2019, 03:20 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: While the defense gave Finley more chances than Dalton got(eight three and outs. Dalton only mustered up three points against the Steelers. He was also 0-10 in his last games against Pitt. What ever happens after this season its pretty obvious neither one is the long term answer for the Bengals if they want to go anywhere in the future.
It is obvious we have a talent issue on the OL and are a bad offense missing our #1 (all pro) and #3 receiver who still leads us in TD catches in 2019 even though he has not played in a long time.
I am so ready for 2024 season. I love pro football and hoping for a great Bengals year. Regardless, always remember it is a game and entertainment.
Posts: 13,628
Threads: 365
Reputation:
45805
Joined: May 2015
Finley avoided one sack, and made a throw as he shifted away from a defender against the Redskins in preseason and he was deemed better than Dalton. That's all it took.
That's all some needed.
I don't even think it was a scoring drive.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous
"Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
Posts: 1,767
Threads: 30
Reputation:
8946
Joined: Mar 2017
Those are things that he could become better at but with that noodle arm, it’s pretty much pointless.
Posts: 15,116
Threads: 221
Reputation:
147378
Joined: May 2015
(11-25-2019, 03:20 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: While the defense gave Finley more chances than Dalton got(eight three and outs. Dalton only mustered up three points against the Steelers. He was also 0-10 in his last games against Pitt. What ever happens after this season its pretty obvious neither one is the long term answer for the Bengals if they want to go anywhere in the future.
What we saw out of Dalton is what a decent QB looks like on a team that has rotted around him. At the time Dalton went down, we were averaging a putrid 59.5 rush yards per game (we've averaged 138.7 in Finley's 3 starts), and 2 of our top 3 receivers are out. Not to mention our defense is 29th in turnovers forced and dead last in yards allowed, which means fewer opportunities for the offense.
Dalton is the same as he's ever been. A solid starter. Nothing amazing, nor abysmal. He can get it done if the team is solid around him. It's far from that. That said, it's beyond time to move on. The relationship is fractured, and at some point you just have to try something else. Especially when the team is rebuilding.
I wish Dalton well, he put in some good years for us and was a class act off the field. I can't wait to see what he can offer a different team, and I'm also looking forward to seeing Joe Burrow as a Bengal, assuming we fix this o-line and make some acquisitions on the defensive side.
As to Finley. It's a wrap. I'd give him the rest of the season (why not?), but he has a noodle arm. You can't fix that.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
Posts: 16,401
Threads: 151
Reputation:
61592
Joined: May 2015
(11-25-2019, 04:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: Finley avoided one sack, and made a throw as he shifted away from a defender against the Redskins in preseason and he was deemed better than Dalton. That's all it took.
That's all some needed.
I don't even think it was a scoring drive.
puke puke pass >>>> finley
Posts: 1,238
Threads: 2
Reputation:
6341
Joined: Sep 2017
(11-25-2019, 03:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is obvious we have a talent issue on the OL and are a bad offense missing our #1 (all pro) and #3 receiver who still leads us in TD catches in 2019 even though he has not played in a long time.
Yep, extreme talent issue on the OL with an inexperienced QB ain't a god mix....
Posts: 1,950
Threads: 52
Reputation:
5003
Joined: Mar 2017
(11-25-2019, 04:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What we saw out of Dalton is what a decent QB looks like on a team that has rotted around him. At the time Dalton went down, we were averaging a putrid 59.5 rush yards per game (we've averaged 138.7 in Finley's 3 starts), and 2 of our top 3 receivers are out. Not to mention our defense is 29th in turnovers forced and dead last in yards allowed, which means fewer opportunities for the offense.
Dalton is the same as he's ever been. A solid starter. Nothing amazing, nor abysmal. He can get it done if the team is solid around him. It's far from that. That said, it's beyond time to move on. The relationship is fractured, and at some point you just have to try something else. Especially when the team is rebuilding.
I wish Dalton well, he put in some good years for us and was a class act off the field. I can't wait to see what he can offer a different team, and I'm also looking forward to seeing Joe Burrow as a Bengal, assuming we fix this o-line and make some acquisitions on the defensive side.
As to Finley. It's a wrap. I'd give him the rest of the season (why not?), but he has a noodle arm. You can't fix that.
Dalton was 0-10 in his last ten starts against Pitt. Given nine more chances how worse can Finley be? How come when its Dalton's ineptitude its the players around him but you act like Finley is playing with an all pro team. Don't look now but your Andyness is showing.
Posts: 18,617
Threads: 462
Reputation:
118131
Joined: May 2015
Location: Nashville, TN
(11-25-2019, 03:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is obvious we have a talent issue on the OL and are a bad offense missing our #1 (all pro) and #3 receiver who still leads us in TD catches in 2019 even though he has not played in a long time.
I'd modify your signature from "buy season tickets" to "go to a game."
Zac Taylor 2019-2020: 6 total wins
Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Zac Taylor 2023: 9 wins despite losing Burrow half the season
Zac Taylor 2024: Started 1-4. If he can turn this into a playoff appearance, it will be impressive.
Sorry for Party Rocking!
Posts: 15,116
Threads: 221
Reputation:
147378
Joined: May 2015
(11-25-2019, 05:46 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Dalton was 0-10 in his last ten starts against Pitt. Given nine more chances how worse can Finley be? How come when its Dalton's ineptitude its the players around him but you act like Finley is playing with an all pro team. Don't look now but your Andyness is showing.
Palmer was 4-8 against the Steelers as a Bengal, with a passer rating in the low 70's. We've struggled against the Steelers for a long time. I'm not judging Finley on just that game. He's played terribly in all 3 starts, and it's pretty apparent his arm is going to be a severe weakness. Do you really want to die on Finley hill?
My "Andyness" (how 3rd grade of you) is showing so much that I want to cut him after this season and draft Joe Burrow.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
Posts: 17,077
Threads: 237
Reputation:
133272
Joined: Oct 2015
(11-25-2019, 06:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Palmer was 4-8 against the Steelers as a Bengal, with a passer rating in the low 70's. We've struggled against the Steelers for a long time. I'm not judging Finley on just that game. He's played terribly in all 3 starts, and it's pretty apparent his arm is going to be a severe weakness. Do you really want to die on Finley hill?
My "Andyness" (how 3rd grade of you) is showing so much that I want to cut him after this season and draft Joe Burrow.
At least put a pillow over your lap to cover your Andyness, Shake. Common decency is all we ask here.
____________________________________________________________
Posts: 15,116
Threads: 221
Reputation:
147378
Joined: May 2015
(11-25-2019, 06:20 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: At least put a pillow over your lap to cover your Andyness, Shake. Common decency is all we ask here.
:andy:
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
Posts: 20,702
Threads: 98
Reputation:
192236
Joined: May 2015
Location: Bluegrass Region
(11-25-2019, 04:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: Finley avoided one sack, and made a throw as he shifted away from a defender against the Redskins in preseason and he was deemed better than Dalton. That's all it took.
That's all some needed.
I don't even think it was a scoring drive.
This.
I'll say he does some good things, he's just not ready for the NFL. He may make a serviceable backup someday though. I'm not gonna trash the young man behind this line and with these receivers though. I've described what I thought were his flaws and strong points.
He's not better than 14 though. By quite a stretch.
"Better send those refunds..."
Posts: 20,702
Threads: 98
Reputation:
192236
Joined: May 2015
Location: Bluegrass Region
(11-25-2019, 04:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What we saw out of Dalton is what a decent QB looks like on a team that has rotted around him. At the time Dalton went down, we were averaging a putrid 59.5 rush yards per game (we've averaged 138.7 in Finley's 3 starts), and 2 of our top 3 receivers are out. Not to mention our defense is 29th in turnovers forced and dead last in yards allowed, which means fewer opportunities for the offense.
Dalton is the same as he's ever been. A solid starter. Nothing amazing, nor abysmal. He can get it done if the team is solid around him. It's far from that. That said, it's beyond time to move on. The relationship is fractured, and at some point you just have to try something else. Especially when the team is rebuilding.
I wish Dalton well, he put in some good years for us and was a class act off the field. I can't wait to see what he can offer a different team, and I'm also looking forward to seeing Joe Burrow as a Bengal, assuming we fix this o-line and make some acquisitions on the defensive side.
As to Finley. It's a wrap. I'd give him the rest of the season (why not?), but he has a noodle arm. You can't fix that.
I'd really like to see Dolegala play a couple games. At least it'd be interesting.
"Better send those refunds..."
Posts: 1,950
Threads: 52
Reputation:
5003
Joined: Mar 2017
(11-25-2019, 06:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Palmer was 4-8 against the Steelers as a Bengal, with a passer rating in the low 70's. We've struggled against the Steelers for a long time. I'm not judging Finley on just that game. He's played terribly in all 3 starts, and it's pretty apparent his arm is going to be a severe weakness. Do you really want to die on Finley hill?
My "Andyness" (how 3rd grade of you) is showing so much that I want to cut him after this season and draft Joe Burrow.
I don't want to die on Finley hill ,what ever that means ,but going thru more of ADs middling seasons would be unbearable. Andy losing ten straight to the Steelers even when he had good teams just emphasizes the Andyness in people who want to keep him to still be the QB.
Posts: 13,628
Threads: 365
Reputation:
45805
Joined: May 2015
I would have liked to have seen Jake. We need to see Ross and he'd have a qb that can take advantage of his skillset. But they need a win more than they need to evaluate. If we had a win, Dalton would still be on the bench.
Finley had everything but the arm, and who knows how much better it'll get given his age.
The story is likely still out on him. I can see an offseason of Hobspin full of the Goff comparisons and the "rough" rookie years they had.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous
"Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
|