Fixing the bull pen

[fredtoast]

Relief pitchers drive me crazy. They seem to go up and down from season to season for no apparent reason.

Hernandez went from 2.53 ERA in '18 to 8.02 in '19.
Iglesias went from 3 straight years under 2.50 ERA to 4.16 in '19.
Hughes went from 1.94 in '18 to 4.10 in '19.

So how do we fix our bullpen? When one guy goes bad I look at the player. When a bunch go bad I look at the coach. But we supposedly have a well regarded pitching coach.

Did these guys have health problems? Is there a chance they return to their prior form next year if we stick with them?

How many of them are even under contract? What about Lorenzen, Stephenson, and Garrett?

Any pitchers down at AAA that might step up and help this year?

As for free agents I would look at guys who failed as starters because they don't have enough different pitches. A reliever can get by with just a couple of different pitches much better than a starter. Same goes for the guys we have down in the minors right now. Maybe a guy we had been grooming to start could be help as a reliever.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-11-2019, 07:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Relief pitchers drive me crazy.  They seem to go up and down from season to season for no apparent reason.

Hernandez went from 2.53 ERA in '18 to 8.02 in '19.
Iglesias went from 3 straight years under 2.50 ERA to 4.16 in '19.
Hughes went from 1.94 in '18 to 4.10 in '19.

So how do we fix our bullpen?  When one guy goes bad I look at the player.  When a bunch go bad I look at the coach.  But we supposedly have a well regarded pitching coach.

Did these guys have health problems?  Is there a chance they return to their prior form next year if we stick with them?

How many of them are even under contract?  What about Lorenzen, Stephenson, and Garrett?

Any pitchers down at AAA that might step up and help this year?

As for free agents I would look at guys who failed as starters because they don't have enough different pitches.  A reliever can get by with just a couple of different pitches much better than a starter.  Same goes for the guys we have down in the minors right now.  Maybe a guy we had been grooming to start could be help as a reliever.

There's that Lodolo or something like that ? I've seen a couple articles mentioning him, LH I think which is all the more better. He's only had 1 year in minors, single A so on the inexperienced side but has pitched really well. They were speculating he just might get pushed along quickly.

No matter what they do in my opinion they badly need to have a plan B at closer.

[grampahol]

Dirty little secret about the bullpen which was true 50 years ago and is still true today.. Bullpen arms are bullpen arms simply because they're not good enough to be starters.. No kid ever grew up with the express desire to grow up to be a middle relief pitcher.. 
be honest now..When your first grade teacher asked what you want to be when you grow up how many of you said emphatically, "Middle relief pitcher!" Oh, what a low bar as a youngster.. 
Teacher: "OK, sit down Johnny."

[samhain]

(12-11-2019, 08:18 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: There's that Lodolo or something like that ? I've seen a couple articles mentioning him, LH I think which is all the more better. He's only had 1 year in minors, single A so on the inexperienced side but has pitched really well. They were speculating he just might get pushed along quickly.

No matter what they do in my opinion they badly need to have a plan B at closer.

Lodolo is all but a lock for a rotation spot when he's ready.  He's likely their most valuable prospect.  He was a beast in single A and will likely be pushed to the majors quickly, a-la Mike Leake.  This is not a developmental guy in the sense that many pitchers are when drafted.  He's a mature college pitcher.

I wouldn't be shocked to see him in the majors by the end of 2020.

[BrownAssClown]

(12-11-2019, 07:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Relief pitchers drive me crazy.  They seem to go up and down from season to season for no apparent reason.

Hernandez went from 2.53 ERA in '18 to 8.02 in '19.
Iglesias went from 3 straight years under 2.50 ERA to 4.16 in '19.
Hughes went from 1.94 in '18 to 4.10 in '19.

So how do we fix our bullpen?  When one guy goes bad I look at the player.  When a bunch go bad I look at the coach.  But we supposedly have a well regarded pitching coach.

Did these guys have health problems?  Is there a chance they return to their prior form next year if we stick with them?

How many of them are even under contract?  What about Lorenzen, Stephenson, and Garrett?

Any pitchers down at AAA that might step up and help this year?

As for free agents I would look at guys who failed as starters because they don't have enough different pitches.  A reliever can get by with just a couple of different pitches much better than a starter.  Same goes for the guys we have down in the minors right now.  Maybe a guy we had been grooming to start could be help as a reliever.

Whatever happened to Hunter Greene? Is he coming up for spring training? Could he be used out of the bullpen? Haven't heard much about him lately.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-19-2019, 03:47 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: Whatever happened to Hunter Greene? Is he coming up for spring training? Could he be used out of the bullpen? Haven't heard much about him lately.

He had Tommy John surgery and had to be sat down. I suppose he'll re ready to start throwing again this spring but how quickly he'll get back on track ?

I'd guess best case scenario it'll be 2021 before he's ready, perhaps even 2022 ?

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(12-19-2019, 03:55 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: He had Tommy John surgery and had to be sat down. I suppose he'll re ready to start throwing again this spring but how quickly he'll get back on track ?

I'd guess best case scenario it'll be 2021 before he's ready, perhaps even 2022 ?

I just read that he's due for a mid summer start up. His surgery recovery timeline started too late to see him involved with any of the camps.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/tyler-thornburg-reds-deal
Sounds like recent Reds History with signing guys that were once good before "the injury".

Maybe he clicks, maybe he doesn't. He'll be one of many added to the pool of hopefuls.

[fredtoast]

(12-13-2019, 11:22 AM)grampahol Wrote: Dirty little secret about the bullpen which was true 50 years ago and is still true today.. Bullpen arms are bullpen arms simply because they're not good enough to be starters..

Sometimes relief pitchers actually have better fastballs than starters, but they just don't have a "scond pitch" like a starter needs.

But overall I agree.  Starters are better pitchers than relievers.

Maybe we should look at guys who have lively fastballs but failed as starters.  See if we can convert them to relievers.