What changed in the running game

[BengalsRocker]

With run blocking having clearly improved by all stated by most in this thread.

What does that say about our HC/OC who abandoned the run 3 straight plays by the goal line?

Just wondering...

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(12-13-2019, 11:30 AM)Au165 Wrote: Yea, the article goes on to say they eventually figured out they didn't have the personnel to make the outside zone work and eventually had to just scrap trying it for something that allowed them to use what their guys had and that was athleticism to pull.

The coaches though should have known the scheme would not work based on 2018 film on the OL. Even man fans knew that system would not work with this OL. They did not do their DD

[*Synric*]

(12-14-2019, 01:28 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: The coaches though should have known the scheme would not work based on 2018 film on the OL. Even man fans knew that system would not work with this OL. They did not do their DD

Watching the 2018 tape you would know they looked very good running the outside zone.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-13-2019, 01:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So Kingsbury (with the help of a health first round pick who has played this year) has produced the 24th ranked offense in the league.  Yay!

I guess we just ignore that he has made the defense much worse, right?

Got to spin like crazy to shit on the Bengals.

Come on Fred. You use Football Outsiders numbers.

In 2018 the Cardinals had the 32nd ranked offense in Offensive Efficiency.

In 2019, under Kingsbury...they are 15th. That's IMPROVEMENT. 

The Bengals in 2018, had the 19th ranked offense.

In 2019, the Bengals have the 28th ranked offense. That's NOT IMPROVEMENT.

Pretty simple. Rush Offense, Bengals this year 28th. Last Year 19th. We got worse!

[THE PISTONS]

(12-13-2019, 06:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thank you, I find this thread refreshing until I read Pistons posts. Just the same thing over and over, just cause we see 
something positive to take from the team doesn't mean we are happy with being 1-12 for heck sake.

There are very few positives to take from the team this year. The improvements are basically that they're not on historically bad pace offensively and defensively which they were for the 1st half of the year. With the improvements, they're not even a below average team. They're terrible.

They need about 6-8 upgraded starters to be legit.

The offensive line? 4 of the starters grades are below 60 with some in the 40's on PFF. And Hopkins was hovering around 60 last time I checked.

We essentially need 5 new offensive lineman...although Hopkins may be passable at Center.

Now I'll let you all go back to gushing about how great Turner and the offensive coaches are. At 1-12 we're obviously on the cusp of greatness!

[*Synric*]

(12-14-2019, 02:17 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There are very few positives to take from the team this year. The improvements are basically that they're not on historically bad pace offensively and defensively which they were for the 1st half of the year. With the improvements, they're not even a below average team. They're terrible.

They need about 6-8 upgraded starters to be legit.

The offensive line? 4 of the starters grades are below 60 with some in the 40's on PFF. And Hopkins was hovering around 60 last time I checked.

We essentially need 5 new offensive lineman...although Hopkins may be passable at Center.

Now I'll let you all go back to gushing about how great Turner and the offensive coaches are. At 1-12 we're obviously on the cusp of greatness!

Lol you really don't know much about football do you?

Let me ask you this since you love posting PFF grades. What is the average run blocking grade according to PFF? 

Hint they grade run blocking alot more harsh than pass blocking.

[coachmcneil71]

(12-13-2019, 12:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: Pollack has been trash in New York, guy is the most overrated position coach I can remember. He got canned in Dallas because they knew it was the talent not him (which when healthy they have not lost a step with him gone). He couldn't get a better line last year to pass block any better than this line. He hasn't gotten the line in New York to do anything for one of the elite backs in the NFL. 

Think about this for a second, if he was so good when he left Dallas why did he end up here (a bad organization)? If he was so good when he left here why did he end up with the Jets (a bad organization)?  Because people in the league know he really isn't anything special.

You're wrong. You're blaming the wrong guy! Mixon's numbers from last year speak volumes. The problem with the Jets is a RB that sat out a year, and a young QB. I know you fancy yourself as a scout and numbers guy, but many times you don't see the forest for the trees.

No need to reply. I already know the kind of stuff you will try to push just to serve your agenda. That team is a mess,but it's not Frank's fault. Bad players make for poor results. Look no further than the mess that is the 2019 Bengals.

Any of us could make an argument for Turner, Lou, or Taylor being at fault here. Just as you would like to make out that the Jets suck because of Pollack.

[BengalsRocker]

When you go from having zero TDs by your running backs... to three in 6 games.

From the very bottom, even a small tick upwards looks like sunshine and lollipops.

[bengaloo]

Stats, numbers, anal-litics aside, it has been a lot more fun to watch games with Mixon running so much better. Its nice to visibly see a positive difference.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-14-2019, 10:23 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Stats, numbers, anal-litics aside, it has been a lot more fun to watch games with Mixon running so much better. Its nice to visibly see a positive difference.

And in the same breath see them abandon him in the red zone?

Not only is that frustrating to him on the sidelines but to fans watching the game.

Taylor needs to pull his head outta his derriere.

[bengaloo]

(12-14-2019, 10:33 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: And in the same breath see them abandon him in the red zone?

Not only is that frustrating to him on the sidelines but to fans watching the game.

Taylor needs to pull his head outta his derriere.

Yeah I wasnt a fan of that sequence of play calls. However, I still want Joe Burrow, so they can learn from that mistake later lol.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-14-2019, 10:41 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Yeah I wasnt a fan of that sequence of play calls. However, I still want Joe Burrow, so they can learn from that mistake later lol.

You're more psyched about how Mixon is playing hard and showing his skills.

I bet somewhere in your head(like many others watching)what could this guy do with a REAL offensive line, a REAL offensive mind, and a team that was able to use him to his potential.

Am I right??

[SunsetBengal]

(12-14-2019, 02:17 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There are very few positives to take from the team this year. The improvements are basically that they're not on historically bad pace offensively and defensively which they were for the 1st half of the year. With the improvements, they're not even a below average team. They're terrible.

They need about 6-8 upgraded starters to be legit.

The offensive line? 4 of the starters grades are below 60 with some in the 40's on PFF. And Hopkins was hovering around 60 last time I checked.

We essentially need 5 new offensive lineman...although Hopkins may be passable at Center.

Now I'll let you all go back to gushing about how great Turner and the offensive coaches are. At 1-12 we're obviously on the cusp of greatness!

(12-14-2019, 02:55 AM)Synric Wrote: Lol you really don't know much about football do you?

Let me ask you this since you love posting PFF grades. What is the average run blocking grade according to PFF? 

Hint they grade run blocking alot more harsh than pass blocking.

Let's not run each other into the ground, while trying to out duel one another about who is right or wrong about the team being shitty, and weather it is or isn't showing any small signs of improvement.

Please keep comments and responses aimed at the message, rather than at the person.  We're all fans of the same team, or we wouldn't even be here.  

[THE PISTONS]

(12-14-2019, 11:48 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: You're more psyched about how Mixon is playing hard and showing his skills.

I bet somewhere in your head(like many others watching)what could this guy do with a REAL offensive line, a REAL offensive mind, and a team that was able to use him to his potential.

Am I right??

I feel like Mixon would be a Top 3-5 back behind a good offensive line.

[fredtoast]

(12-14-2019, 02:12 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Come on Fred. You use Football Outsiders numbers.

In 2018 the Cardinals had the 32nd ranked offense in Offensive Efficiency.

In 2019, under Kingsbury...they are 15th. That's IMPROVEMENT. 

The Bengals in 2018, had the 19th ranked offense.

In 2019, the Bengals have the 28th ranked offense. That's NOT IMPROVEMENT.

Pretty simple. Rush Offense, Bengals this year 28th. Last Year 19th. We got worse!

1.  Kingsbury did not lose two starting offenseive linemen from last year to injury, and his first round pick is healthy and playing.  Plus you keep screaming abiut how "wins are what matter" and the Cards have the same number of wins as last year.  And their defense has gotten much worse.  

2.  If the Bengals end up ranked higher in rushing yards than last year will you give Turner credit for doing more with less talent than Pollack had last year?  

[Au165]

That running game sure looked good again yesterday versus a top 10 rushing defense. You don't have to love the staff as a whole, or a lot of their decisions, but this has to be looked at as a positive.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(12-14-2019, 01:28 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: The coaches though should have known the scheme would not work based on 2018 film on the OL. Even man fans knew that system would not work with this OL. They did not do their DD

The 2018 film would have shown: 16 starts from the now retired through injury Clint Boling; 15 starts from the first suspended, then benched and now injured Alex Redmond; 10 starts from the benched Billy Price; 16 starts from Bobby Hart who they drafted his replacement in the first round; 13 starts from Cordy Glenn who by the time he'd recovered from concussion they'd already changed the 2019 scheme; plus some back-up starts from Trey Hopkins plus a couple of Ogbuehi, Fisher, Westerman and Andre Smith appearances.

The lessons learned from the 2018 film would therefore have been

1. Sign a new RG to replace Redmond
2. Bench Price for Hopkins
3. Draft a T in the 1st round to replace Hart
4. Draft/sign some more IOL depth
5. Get some more depth at T

[THE PISTONS]

(12-16-2019, 02:28 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: The 2018 film would have shown: 16 starts from the now retired through injury Clint Boling; 15 starts from the first suspended, then benched and now injured Alex Redmond; 10 starts from the benched Billy Price; 16 starts from Bobby Hart who they drafted his replacement in the first round; 13 starts from Cordy Glenn who by the time he'd recovered from concussion they'd already changed the 2019 scheme; plus some back-up starts from Trey Hopkins plus a couple of Ogbuehi, Fisher, Westerman and Andre Smith appearances.

The lessons learned from the 2018 film would therefore have been

1. Sign a new RG to replace Redmond
2. Bench Price for Hopkins
3. Draft a T in the 1st round to replace Hart
4. Draft/sign some more IOL depth
5. Get some more depth at T

Except Jonah wasn't Bobby Hart's replacement. He was Cordy Glenn's replacement.

I know this doesn't make sense...but that was their plan. Jonah was the LT. Hart was the starting RT. Glenn was going to move to Guard.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(12-16-2019, 02:37 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Except Jonah wasn't Bobby Hart's replacement. He was Cordy Glenn's replacement.

I know this doesn't make sense...but that was their plan. Jonah was the LT. Hart was the starting RT. Glenn was going to move to Guard.

That was only after Clint Boling didn't participate in OTAs.

Zac Taylor said from the start that "the goal is to get the five best linemen on the field no matter what position they play". Once Boling was removed from the equation that meant there was a gap at LG so Glenn fitted in there and Hart was reprieved.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-16-2019, 03:25 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: That was only after Clint Boling didn't participate in OTAs.

Zac Taylor said from the start that "the goal is to get the five best linemen on the field no matter what position they play". Once Boling was removed from the equation that meant there was a gap at LG so Glenn fitted in there and Hart was reprieved.

Me and you can't fathom it, but the Bengals coaches viewed Hart as one of the best 5.