Article - Says AD not main issue

[*bfine32*]

(12-27-2019, 04:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Desperate for what?

As I said: You can dismiss the common opponent factor if you want, just don't expect everyone else to. Hell, I think even the NFL uses it in certain cases. You better alert them and let them know they are desperate.

(12-27-2019, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Okay.  Show me who whis "everyone else" is.  Post a list of everyone who is claiming Dalton is better than Finley because of their performances against common opponenets.

I think there will be a common factor among all the names you list.

WTS: You called someone clueless for not acknowledging Dalton was far better than Finley and I showed where a case could be made to dispute that assertion. 

[fredtoast]

(12-27-2019, 04:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I asked you what leads you to believe that Dalton is far better than Finley. You did post that Andy's passer rating of 78 in his 9th year over 12 games is 16 points better than Ryan's.  Andy got to inflate his stats over cupcakes such as Arizona and Miami. Ryan had to play the best team in the NFL, and 2 teams that have a shot at making the playoffs going into the last game of the season.

So yeah, I'm going to roll with you failed to show me how Andy was "far better" than Finley.

Dalton had to play the number one pass defense in the league which belongs to the nunmber one seed in the NFC  and he put up 311 yards and a 90.5 rating.  And he also played the Rams who have atop 10 pass defense and he put up 329 yards and a 86.1 rating.

Of course Finley had a chance to "pad his stats" against the Raiders 25th ranked pass defense and what did he do?  115 yards and a 39.0 passer rating.

So lets just eliminate all of those games and look at games against "common opponents" even those those common opponents played different defensive line ups in their 2 games against the Bengals. 

[fredtoast]

(12-27-2019, 05:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: WTS: You called someone clueless for not acknowledging Dalton was far better than Finley and I showed where a case could be made to dispute that assertion. 

And your "case" was just cherry picking.

Like I said.  Show me the list of all the people who have said Dalton is not better than Finley.  I am guessing that list only includes you and one or maybe two other people.

[*bfine32*]

(12-27-2019, 05:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And your "case" was just cherry picking.

Like I said.  Show me the list of all the people who have said Dalton is not better than Finley.  I am guessing that list only includes you and one or maybe two other people.

I've not said Finley is better than Dalton, Quit making things up and quit omitting words you used. I proposed a comparison of common opponents to dispute the assertion that Andy is FAR better than Ryan  and anyone thinking otherwise is clueless.

Who do I think is better? IDK, we never gave the kid a chance to prove himself. We benched him after his best game of the year. In the 4 games that Andy has been handed back the keys he's played 4 games. Half of them have been worse that Finley's performance that got him sent back to the pine. 

[Catmandude123]

(12-27-2019, 04:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So why waste the money on a backup QB?

Use Finley and Jake if goal is to lose either way if Joe goes down

Fact, Andy was a loser the last four years. What makes you think he will do better as a reliever than a starter. Save the money and go for FA help that is going to be needed day one in 2020.

[Catmandude123]

(12-27-2019, 05:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And your "case" was just cherry picking.

Like I said.  Show me the list of all the people who have said Dalton is not better than Finley.  I am guessing that list only includes you and one or maybe two other people.

I will give in to your assumption that nine year pro Dalton may be better than first year three game experience Finley but not 17 million dollars better.

[fredtoast]

(12-27-2019, 05:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who do I think is better? IDK,

Everyone else knows.  It is dalton.  Anyone who does not think sois clueless

(12-27-2019, 05:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  We benched him after his best game of the year.

Less than 200 passing yards, less than 50% pass completion, and 2 fumbles.

(12-27-2019, 05:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: In the 4 games that Andy has been handed back the keys he's played 4 games. Half of them have been worse that Finley's performance that got him sent back to the pine. 

"One game" did not get Finlay benched.  It was his consistent poor play.  Give up the cherry picking

Finley's 3 games................................158 yds/g......62.1 rating......11 sacks.......4 fum
Dalton's 4 games since he returned.....264 yds/g......77.0 rating........7 sacks.......1 fum

[SunsetBengal]

(12-27-2019, 06:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Everyone else knows.  It is dalton.  Anyone who does not think sois clueless



Less than 200 passing yards, less than 50% pass completion, and 2 fumbles.



"One game" did not get Finlay benched.  It was his consistent poor play.  Give up the cherry picking

Finley's 3 games................................158 yds/g......62.1 rating......11 sacks.......4 fum
Dalton's 4 games since he returned.....264 yds/g......77.0 rating........7 sacks.......1 fum

Andy has that veteran experience, but what he hasn't fumbled away like Finley did, he's made up for in INTs..

[Catmandude123]

(12-27-2019, 05:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton had to play the number one pass defense in the league which belongs to the nunmber one seed in the NFC  and he put up 311 yards and a 90.5 rating.  And he also played the Rams who have atop 10 pass defense and he put up 329 yards and a 86.1 rating.

Of course Finley had a chance to "pad his stats" against the Raiders 25th ranked pass defense and what did he do?  115 yards and a 39.0 passer rating.

So lets just eliminate all of those games and look at games against "common opponents" even those those common opponents played different defensive line ups in their 2 games against the Bengals. 

Yeah and lets just forget that Andy hasn't beaten the Steelers in four and a half years too. You guys like cherry picking on Andy. 

[Catmandude123]

(12-27-2019, 05:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton had to play the number one pass defense in the league which belongs to the nunmber one seed in the NFC  and he put up 311 yards and a 90.5 rating.  And he also played the Rams who have atop 10 pass defense and he put up 329 yards and a 86.1 rating.

Of course Finley had a chance to "pad his stats" against the Raiders 25th ranked pass defense and what did he do?  115 yards and a 39.0 passer rating.

So lets just eliminate all of those games and look at games against "common opponents" even those those common opponents played different defensive line ups in their 2 games against the Bengals. 

Finley faced the fourth , fifth and 21st ranked defenses. Dalton lost to the 32nd(fins), 31st(Cards),26th(Hawks),27th(Jags). Any more cherry picking you'd like to do?

[*bfine32*]

(12-27-2019, 06:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Everyone else knows.  It is dalton.  Anyone who does not think sois clueless



Less than 200 passing yards, less than 50% pass completion, and 2 fumbles.



"One game" did not get Finlay benched.  It was his consistent poor play.  Give up the cherry picking

Finley's 3 games................................158 yds/g......62.1 rating......11 sacks.......4 fum
Dalton's 4 games since he returned.....264 yds/g......77.0 rating........7 sacks.......1 fum

Why did you leave out INTs in your little comparison, could it be....Cherry picking.

I didn't say one game got Finley benched. You've been asked numerous times to quit making shit up but you refuse.

Did you really feel kind of silly typing a 77.0 passer rating for a 9 year vet as a statistic that he's FAR (why do you keep leaving that word out) better than a rookie that was only given 3 games (all against playoff caliber teams) to post a 62.1 rating?

I'm really enjoying this, but I'm done General. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-27-2019, 04:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So why waste the money on a backup QB?

Use Finley and Jake if goal is to lose either way if Joe goes down

Maybe if we could actually could get a look at Dolegala...

[Catmandude123]

I guess Fred the cherry picking stat man got toasted and has left the building.

[Bengalitis]

(12-27-2019, 03:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Overall stats instead of cherry picking.

Dalton  275.3 yds/gm..  78.4 rt.. 59.6 comp%..  3.0 td%..  2.6 int%..  6.6 yd/att..  3.0 sack/g..  0.6 fum/g..  0.3 rush td/gm
Finley   158.0 yds/gm..  62.1 rt.. 47.1 comp%..  2.3 td%..  2.3 int%..  5.4 yd/att..  3.7 sack/g..  1.3 fum/g..  0.0 rush td/gm  

To Finley's credit, he played through some tough adversaries.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-27-2019, 11:48 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: To Finley's credit, he played through some tough adversaries.

Yes he did — and only in hindsight do we see Ryan Finley was insufficiently prepared. That’s not on him. That’s on the coaches. With adequate preparation he may become good someday but I’m not confident the current staff can rise to the occasion.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-27-2019, 10:28 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Correct.

By general consensus there were a few games most felt if Dalton had played they could've won.

Yet another coaching or management flaw.

I'm just curious to who had the plan to bench Dalton?

Was it upper management or Zac Taylor?

Why was Dalton brought back if the plan was to not play him once the season was lost?

Why not put in Dolegala if the plan was to see what backup QBs had and to save AD from injury?

Was Finley Zac's pick or someone elses?

Was benching Dalton and putting in Finley a way to justify the pick for someone's ego or management trying to see if ZT had an eye for QB talent?

So many damn questions I have for this season and the scenario that unfolded.

Gee Rocker I guess I'll just ***** about Dalton as usual and not question myself the last part of the post.

Who the F is making these head scratching decisions and why?

If it's Zac then he should have been fired by now.

[Luvnit2]

(12-28-2019, 12:47 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Gee Rocker I guess I'll just ***** about Dalton as usual and not question myself the last part of the post.

Who the F is making these head scratching decisions and why?

If it's Zac then he should have been fired by now.

Finley needs experience, I hope all saw he was not ready to be starting for aany NFL team this year. That does not mean he can't get better, no different from other rookies.

Those who say Finley was as good or better than AD 9 (entire career) is not the one we need to listen to. They are no QB whisperer.

I may be wrong, but I think ZT knew year was lost (no playoffs) so wanted to see what he had with Finley. I don't fault him for giving Finley some games against 1st team NFL players to check him out.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-28-2019, 01:23 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Finley needs experience, I hope all saw he was not ready to be starting for aany NFL team this year. That does not mean he can't get better, no different from other rookies.

Those who say Finley was as good or better than AD 9 (entire career) is not the one we need to listen to. They are no QB whisperer.

I may be wrong, but I think ZT knew year was lost (no playoffs) so wanted to see what he had with Finley. I don't fault him for giving Finley some games against 1st team NFL players to check him out.

Why not leave Finley in the rest of the season?

Did Taylor fold because of the players wanting Dalton to start again?

Was he forced by Mike Brown to switch back?

Did Taylor pick Finley and is he the one that wanted him to play.

Why not play Dolegala as well?

So wishy washy in decision making in my opinion.

Seems like he doesn't have a clue or a spine.

That just adds to my thoughts that he's a terrible choice for HC.

[BengalsRocker]

You guys can post stats and claim cherry picking all you want.

I never claimed numbers either way.

Just ask most Bengals fans(yes I actually talk to others not on this board)and most feel that Dalton would've won a few of those.

That is based on discussion without pulling up stats.

That's all I claimed.  It was a general consensus.

Instead you guys decided it was a Dalton Gang thing.

Believe me I know and am friends with fans who don't want him as QB so it's not biased by even that.

[grampahol]

Here's what I think happens.. They keep Andy this coming season to try to help ease Burrow into the league either holding the clipboard or playing on and off..and if he plays gangbusters great they find a trade partner for Andy.  I have a hunch they cut losses with Findley, perhaps hang onto Dolagala for a year as a backup just in case both Andy and Joe go down to injury.. I might be wrong, but who really knows what evil plan lurks in the tiny braintrust of this team? For all we know they'll convert Fat Randy to QB and make Burrow a kicker..