Embrace the rebuild ?

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(12-28-2019, 03:47 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Geno Atkins - 11th season next year=Billings, Topou, Glasgow
Carlos Dunlap - 11th= Lawson, Hubbard
AJ Green - 10th season next year and has serious injury history.= We'll draft some receivers this year
John Ross - is poster child of unreliability= We'll draft some receivers this year
Dre Kirkpatrick - 9th season and is among the leagues worst tacklers at DB, among other things.= We have several outstanding young CB's progressing
Bobby Hart is just bad= Johnson will probably take his job
Cordy Glenn I just don't trust.= Jonah Williams will be back next year

We need two or three LBers= Pratt I getting better each game, and as his play progresses, so does Vigil's ( who is nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be on this board) We'll draft a linebacker this year

All good except we have been bad at drafting of late. So 3 meh FA's and then a few bad draft picks who probably spend 2 years on IR. Groundhog day. 

[Sled21]

(12-28-2019, 04:23 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: All good except we have been bad at drafting of late. So 3 meh FA's and then a few bad draft picks who probably spend 2 years on IR. Groundhog day. 

What do you mean, most of those I bolded have been drafted in the last couple of years?

[Devils Advocate]

(12-28-2019, 01:38 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: No one is saying there's zero talent on this team, however:

Geno Atkins - 11th season next year
Carlos Dunlap - 11th
AJ Green - 10th season next year and has serious injury history.
John Ross - is poster child of unreliability
Dre Kirkpatrick - 9th season and is among the leagues worst tacklers at DB, among other things.
Bobby Hart is just bad
Cordy Glenn I just don't trust.

We need two or three LBers

And the list goes on.

I’m beginning to disagree with this statement. I think we need one play maker. Put Lawson, Hubbard, Pratt and Jordan Evans with a playmaker (FA) § switch to a more prominent 3-4. Vigil would be good as a fifth or sixth. We have the Dline for it too.

Honestly, I don’t believe we need help at LBer. The guys we have can pull it off, given that Pratt continues to progress. I think we need one playmaker anywhere on the defense (maybe particularly somewhere in the back 7) that will change the way offenses plan. We need just one superstar playmaker to make this defense legit. That’s my opinion.

I believe the same thing can happen on offense with a different QB.

We have a 1000 yard back (hopefully) and a 1000 yard receiver (again, hopefully). We have a stud receiver injured and another that has flashed electrifying potential (albeit limited). We have a very good TE if he’s healthy and used as a threat.

There’s potential on the Oline too, despite the perception. Hopkins is good and Williams should be a decent upgrade, hopefully quantifying his draft position.

In my estimation, we are not that far away. The biggest question mark to me is the HC and the unknown in drafting Joe Burrow, although I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that I think he’ll work out just fine.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(12-28-2019, 04:36 PM)Sled21 Wrote: What do you mean, most of those I bolded have been drafted in the last couple of years?

"We will draft some receivers"
"We will draft a linebacker"

The main issue the team has is - it has not been able to replenish let alone build up the roster via draft and develop - we are on a downward movement here. We lose players every year, every team does but we simply have not replaced them. TE, WR, LB, WR. 

I know you are one of the hopeful ones here but we would once again need to nail a few drafts in a row to make progress beyond average play overall, time will tell but our recent experience with the draft says otherwise. 

[*Synric*]

Embrace the Suck! Lol how I hated that saying.

[Sled21]

(12-29-2019, 12:16 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: "We will draft some receivers"
"We will draft a linebacker"

The main issue the team has is - it has not been able to replenish let alone build up the roster via draft and develop - we are on a downward movement here. We lose players every year, every team does but we simply have not replaced them. TE, WR, LB, WR. 

I know you are one of the hopeful ones here but we would once again need to nail a few drafts in a row to make progress beyond average play overall, time will tell but our recent experience with the draft says otherwise. 

We have a new coaching staff that will want different players now. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

The rebuild began with the hiring of Zac Taylor and this looks more like demolition than a rebuild. Nothing improved in 2019 and, in fact, every position group regressed severely. I would rather rip the bandage off right now while no one is emotionally invested in this horrible coaching staff. Start the search process all over again approximately three nanoseconds after the game ends tomorrow. This is epic failure.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(12-29-2019, 12:46 AM)Sled21 Wrote: We have a new coaching staff that will want different players now. 

And who have even less experience at scouting and drafting.

[Nicomo Cosca]

I know who I want to build around...

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-29-2019, 03:56 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I know who I want to build around...

Me too

And this is essentially what I'm saying. It's time to take a turn in where this team is heading, time to reorganize. Most likely we're not gonna run roughshod over the NFL. Most likely there's going to be little change in the coaching staff. 

Standing pat with the bulk of the team makes little sense. Let ZT start building his team if you're gonna keep him as HC.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-29-2019, 03:56 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I know who I want to build around...

...and that’s fine. We’re going to get Joe Burrow. Do the Front Office and coaches even know how to do this? Building around Burrow worked very well at LSU but do the Bengals’ coaches know how to do this? My head says yes but my gut says no.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 10:37 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: ...and that’s fine.  We’re going to get Joe Burrow.  Do the Front Office and coaches even know how to do this?  Building around Burrow worked very well at LSU but do the Bengals’ coaches know how to do this?  My head says yes but my gut says no.

They act like we aren't drafting Burrow or something....

We all know they will and we all are accepting of it. 

However they seem to think that because not everyone is sold on Burrow that means we won't take him or that once we do our other issues will magically get fixed.  MB will magically change and bring in quality FA and we will sign all of the best guys at the positions we need.  All of those players that weren't overly great on their previous teams will come here and magically play better.

It will be magical, I tell you, once we hear Burrow's name.  Straight up magical.

What I am curious to know is what if we take Burrow this year, he plays but not at the level he did in college, but not bad either, yet we still don't get it done in the W/L column and have the 1st pick next year.  So my curiosity is peaked because Lawrence may be available in next years draft.  If Burrow doesn't wow... do you take a chance and keep Burrow or do you draft Lawrence and then trade Burrow for picks?

[PV Bengal]

(12-28-2019, 04:40 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I’m beginning to disagree with this statement. I think we need one play maker. Put Lawson, Hubbard, Pratt and Jordan Evans with a playmaker (FA) § switch to a more prominent 3-4. Vigil would be good as a fifth or sixth. We have the Dline for it too.

Honestly, I don’t believe we need help at LBer. The guys we have can pull it off, given that Pratt continues to progress. I think we need one playmaker anywhere on the defense (maybe particularly somewhere in the back 7) that will change the way offenses plan. We need just one superstar playmaker to make this defense legit. That’s my opinion.

I believe the same thing can happen on offense with a different QB.

We have a 1000 yard back (hopefully) and a 1000 yard receiver (again, hopefully). We have a stud receiver injured and another that has flashed electrifying potential (albeit limited). We have a very good TE if he’s healthy and used as a threat.

There’s potential on the Oline too, despite the perception. Hopkins is good and Williams should be a decent upgrade, hopefully quantifying his draft position.

In my estimation, we are not that far away. The biggest question mark to me is the HC and the unknown in drafting Joe Burrow, although I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that I think he’ll work out just fine.

I disagree. Go thru our roster and name the players that would be STARTERS on a playoff-caliber team.

Offense: Mixon, Boyd, AJ and maybe Eifert.

Defense: Geno, Carlos and maybe one more

So out of 22 Bengal starters, we have 5 (23%) that could start for a playoff team. And to make matters worse, the majority of the rest of our starters might not even MAKE the roster of a playoff team.

So, no, we are not 1-2 players away ... we are 10-15 players away. And let's not forget that 3 of the 5 above are on the wrong side of 30.

[grampahol]

(12-29-2019, 11:13 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: They act like we aren't drafting Burrow or something....

We all know they will and we all are accepting of it. 

However they seem to think that because not everyone is sold on Burrow that means we won't take him or that once we do our other issues will magically get fixed.  MB will magically change and bring in quality FA and we will sign all of the best guys at the positions we need.  All of those players that weren't overly great on their previous teams will come here and magically play better.

It will be magical, I tell you, once we hear Burrow's name.  Straight up magical.

What I am curious to know is what if we take Burrow this year, he plays but not at the level he did in college, but not bad either, yet we still don't get it done in the W/L column and have the 1st pick next year.  So my curiosity is peaked because Lawrence may be available in next years draft.  If Burrow doesn't wow... do you take a chance and keep Burrow or do you draft Lawrence and then trade Burrow for picks?

If it's Mike Brown you refer to and I think it could be what may well happen is Burrow collapses as an NFL QB and Mikey will immediately sign him to a ten year 500 million dollar contract.. after the fact.. In case you're wondering, yes, Mike Brown brings out the most pessimistic side in me. 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-29-2019, 10:37 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: ...and that’s fine.  We’re going to get Joe Burrow.  Do the Front Office and coaches even know how to do this?  Building around Burrow worked very well at LSU but do the Bengals’ coaches know how to do this?  My head says yes but my gut says no.

The Bengals have a tremendous opportunity before them.  They are in a position to select the new franchise QB, and will be having a fresh Jonah Williams to pair with him.  Unveiling the QB/LT combo of the new era of Bengals football.  What a marketing tool to work with?  Generate some positive energy around the team, get some media buzz, sell some tickets, sell some merchandise, etc.

Once they get that positive buzz going, completing the rest of the offense suddenly gets much narrower in scope.  Then, you're looking at one draft pick, and maybe one free agent to filed a competitive OL.  A revitalized OL should allow for the reestablishment of a consistent rushing attack, which should provide a little room for the Rookie QB's learning curve.  At WR, if they don't retain AJ Green, they can get draft one from the deep class, or even bring in a mid-tier FA to pair with Boyd and Tate.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-29-2019, 11:13 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: They act like we aren't drafting Burrow or something....

We all know they will and we all are accepting of it. 

However they seem to think that because not everyone is sold on Burrow that means we won't take him or that once we do our other issues will magically get fixed.  MB will magically change and bring in quality FA and we will sign all of the best guys at the positions we need.  All of those players that weren't overly great on their previous teams will come here and magically play better.

It will be magical, I tell you, once we hear Burrow's name.  Straight up magical.

What I am curious to know is what if we take Burrow this year, he plays but not at the level he did in college, but not bad either, yet we still don't get it done in the W/L column and have the 1st pick next year.  So my curiosity is peaked because Lawrence may be available in next years draft.  If Burrow doesn't wow... do you take a chance and keep Burrow or do you draft Lawrence and then trade Burrow for picks?

No. Everyone that wants Burrow gets to make up 10,000 excuses as to why he wasn't the problem and we get to do it for 9 years. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-28-2019, 03:34 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Each of the past many years could have been better with a few key free agents. People bring this up every off-season, or in the case of abysmal seasons like this one, before the season has ended. Yet, the front office continues to do nothing substantial or effective to bring in outside talent.

This team supplies other teams with talent in exchange for mid-round comp picks and Mikey is just happy as a clam with that arrangement.

 

This is such an old argument.  I get it...they could have done a lot more this past year...but it isn't like they have never done it in the past.  

[Devils Advocate]

(12-29-2019, 12:00 PM)PV Bengal Wrote: I disagree. Go thru our roster and name the players that would be STARTERS on a playoff-caliber team.

Offense: Mixon, Boyd, AJ and maybe Eifert.

Defense: Geno, Carlos and maybe one more

So out of 22 Bengal starters, we have 5 (23%) that could start for a playoff team. And to make matters worse, the majority of the rest of our starters might not even MAKE the roster of a playoff team.

So, no, we are not 1-2 players away ... we are 10-15 players away. And let's not forget that 3 of the 5 above are on the wrong side of 30.

Those LBer’s/DE’s are starters on any team. Same for the secondary except maybe Williams, but I think he is too. I believe they’re being used wrong and often not all 11 are the best 11 on the field. Besides, these are the guys we have. I think better coaching, perhaps a better scheme that fits the current roster (on both sides of the ball) could really enlightened some fans as to the talent that’s already here.

Reminds of Justin Smith; often called a bust here but was all-world in a scheme that fit his style.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(12-29-2019, 10:37 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: ...and that’s fine. We’re going to get Joe Burrow. Do the Front Office and coaches even know how to do this? Building around Burrow worked very well at LSU but do the Bengals’ coaches know how to do this? My head says yes but my gut says no.

It is one thing to know how to do it and yet another to execute on it. So they may know they need a better OL and skill players and an OC but will they actually get these players?

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 12:39 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No. Everyone that wants Burrow gets to make up 10,000 excuses as to why he wasn't the problem and we get to do it for 9 years. 

Sure... you can do that.  However it would fully expose you as the hypocrite that you are then.  Since it will prove that you just didn't like Andy for 9 years.