Joe Burrow vs Trevor Lawrence

[OswaldsLegacy]

So nearly everyone on this board want us to take Joe Burrow as the number 1 pick. They claim him to be the next great QB and for some reason think we will win the SB easily with him. However Burrow does have some detractors and these posters are being extremely cautious in giving Burrows the full support that he has on this board.

His detractors point out his rise out of nowhere. How he has been in college football for a while and didn't start at OHIO and transferred to an already good/decent team at LSU. They point out that he does have a good OLine, good WRs that have to keep adjusting for his throws and great coaching.

His supporters vehemently deny he has any of those things. They use buzzwords and phrases like "competitor", "great vision", "leader", "accurate", "does things that I haven't seen any QB do in a long time" (my personal favorite).

However there is another QB that isn't available this year but will be next year. That is Trevor Lawrence.

Unlike Burrow, Lawrence has succeeded from the start. He is undefeated since he took over at Clemson and has all of the buzzwords that Burrow has. He has also had a lot of his team leave for the NFL after last year and he hasn't missed a beat. Not too many detractors on him but some still think Burrow is better.

I like Lawrence as a QB prospect better personally so my question is... if Burrow or Lawrence were to both be in the same draft which one would you take and why?

[CJD]

Lawrence is, objectively, a better prospect.

What's the point of this thread? Just to bash Burrow because he isn't Lawrence?

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 10:34 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Lawrence is, objectively, a better prospect.

What's the point of this thread? Just to bash Burrow because he isn't Lawrence?

To legitimately see what posters on here would do if Lawrence were available this year.

You see everyone keeps going on about Burrow being the pick because he is the BEST QB.  Well that is true for this draft, but what about some other drafts?

Is Burrow as good as Manning?  How about Mayfield?  Would we have been interested in Burrow if Luck was an option in the draft?

If the idea is to get the best QB, then why not compare him to other QBs? 

Joe Burrow being the best QB in this draft doesn't really mean much if it is a weak QB class.  The question is to see if he would still be your pick if there were other options available.  I know I didn't put up the options and have it down to Lawrence and Burrow, but the question is really if we had other options would Burrow still be the pick?

If the draft had, Mahomes, Jackson, Watson, Luck, Lawrence, Mayfield, Murray and Burrow as options... which would you take?

The reason I omitted the others was because Burrow and Lawrence are both on equal footing so to speak due to neither playing in the NFL.  That and there is a chance that we have the 1st pick next year, even if it isn't a desired outcome and it is also rare, but if we did have the first pick, then the question would be, do we pass on Lawrence just because we took Burrow?

[CJD]

(12-29-2019, 10:48 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: To legitimately see what posters on here would do if Lawrence were available this year.

You see everyone keeps going on about Burrow being the pick because he is the BEST QB.  Well that is true for this draft, but what about some other drafts?

Is Burrow as good as Manning?  How about Mayfield?  Would we have been interested in Burrow if Luck was an option in the draft?

If the idea is to get the best QB, then why not compare him to other QBs? 

Joe Burrow being the best QB in this draft doesn't really mean much if it is a weak QB class.  The question is to see if he would still be your pick if there were other options available.  I know I didn't put up the options and have it down to Lawrence and Burrow, but the question is really if we had other options would Burrow still be the pick?

If the draft had, Mahomes, Jackson, Watson, Luck, Lawrence, Mayfield, Murray and Burrow as options... which would you take?

The reason I omitted the others was because Burrow and Lawrence are both on equal footing so to speak due to neither playing in the NFL.  That and there is a chance that we have the 1st pick next year, even if it isn't a desired outcome and it is also rare, but if we did have the first pick, then the question would be, do we pass on Lawrence just because we took Burrow?

As a prospect, Burrow is better than Mayfield, worse than Lawrence, but he's the best QB in this draft by a mile. Since we can't "save" our #1OA pick in 2020 for 2021 (and we don't have a strategy for QB in any way heading into 2020), asking if we'd rather have Lawrence is just...a pointless question. Just as pointless as comparing him to Peyton Manning or even Mayfield. We can't select those players, so whether he's better than them or not is immaterial to the decision the Bengals need to make.

The question is: Is Joe Burrow worth the #1OA pick in 2020.

As for the risk of having the first pick next year...I doubt it will happen, but even if it does, context is important. Did Burrow play? How did he look? What was the reason we lost so many games? Did Burrow look like he had a weak arm? Or was the cast around him the problem? If we're bad enough to get the #1 overall pick in two straight years, I don't even think having both Burrow and Lawrence on the team and battling is a bad idea. Gives you insurance if one or the other busts.

We can approach that problem if it comes up, but that is not the case right now and is, therefore, immaterial as well.

Let's say we think the way you do and pass on Burrow. We now have Andy Dalton on a 1 year deal and Ryan Finley. Dalton shows "Good Andy" in 3 or 4 games and we get the #2 or #3 pick.

Now we don't have Lawrence or Burrow and we're absolutely ****** heading into the 2021 season.

All because we were looking the gift horse in the mouth.

I am trying to take your questions in good faith, but I'm struggling with it.

So I have to ask again.

What is the point of this thread?

[*Synric*]

Broadway Joe is putting on a show ?

Make that 3 TDs and counting for Justin Jefferson.

(via @SECNetwork)pic.twitter.com/OWpxVABo4G

— Bleacher Report (@BleacherReport) December 28, 2019

Joe Burrow escapes pressure and without setting his feet throws 42 yards perfectly placed to the outside shoulder where only Jefferson can adjust to make the catch.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 11:05 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: As a prospect, Burrow is better than Mayfield, worse than Lawrence, but he's the best QB in this draft by a mile. Since we can't "save" our #1OA pick in 2020 for 2021 (and we don't have a strategy for QB in any way heading into 2020), asking if we'd rather have Lawrence is just...a pointless question. Just as pointless as comparing him to Peyton Manning or even Mayfield. We can't select those players, so whether he's better than them or not is immaterial to the decision the Bengals need to make.

The question is: Is Joe Burrow worth the #1OA pick in 2020.

As for the risk of having the first pick next year...I doubt it will happen, but even if it does, context is important. Did Burrow play? How did he look? What was the reason we lost so many games? Did Burrow look like he had a weak arm? Or was the cast around him the problem? If we're bad enough to get the #1 overall pick in two straight years, I don't even think having both Burrow and Lawrence on the team and battling is a bad idea. Gives you insurance if one or the other busts.

We can approach that problem if it comes up, but that is not the case right now and is, therefore, immaterial as well.

Let's say we think the way you do and pass on Burrow. We now have Andy Dalton on a 1 year deal and Ryan Finley. Dalton shows "Good Andy" in 3 or 4 games and we get the #2 or #3 pick.

Now we don't have Lawrence or Burrow and we're absolutely ****** heading into the 2021 season.

All because we were looking the gift horse in the mouth.

I am trying to take your questions in good faith, but I'm struggling with it.

So I have to ask again.

What is the point of this thread?

Again he point is knowing how Burrow stacks up compared to other QBs.  People always want the best QB, which is a mistake as the right QB is usually the better option.  However if we want the best and we have 2 QBs right now that are coming into the league, Burrow this year and Lawrence next year, then it is prudent to look at who is the better prospect and take that one.

I disagree that we miss out on Lawrence from the perspective of competent management, but we both know that we don't have that and in reality you are right, we would miss out on Lawrence.

You have answered that Lawrence is the better QB...

That is the point of the thread.  Quit looking for angles.  There isn't any.

Now the way to go about Lawrence from a competent management standpoint.  This year we take Thomas and work on solidifying that OLine.  Even if great Andy shows up and we have the 32nd pick in the draft we can trade up (even if it by a lot) to draft Lawrence next year.  It depends one where we are exactly but again I use the extremes to show the possibility.  We trade Dalton (after Tagging him) and our 1st round pick and the following year's 2nd round that could be a conditional 1st, to the team that has the 1st pick.  If that team doesn't want/need Dalton then trade 2 1st round picks and a 3rd that could be conditional to 2nd.

This way, you have an OLine and a QB for the future.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 11:17 AM)Synric Wrote:

Broadway Joe is putting on a show ?

Make that 3 TDs and counting for Justin Jefferson.

(via @SECNetwork)pic.twitter.com/OWpxVABo4G

— Bleacher Report (@BleacherReport) December 28, 2019

Joe Burrow escapes pressure and without setting his feet throws 42 yards perfectly placed to the outside shoulder where only Jefferson can adjust to make the catch.

Not impressed... luckily he has receivers that constantly make adjustments to make the catch.  Also doesn't hurt that the defenders aren't even looking for the ball.

[Luvnit2]

(12-29-2019, 11:33 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Not impressed... luckily he has receivers that constantly make adjustments to make the catch.  Also doesn't hurt that the defenders aren't even looking for the ball.

Now we know the point of the thread, you don't like Burrow (not Burrows as you don't even know his name).

Sadly, you can't play the what if game and get the guy you want. Number 1, Lawrence is a great leader and I think will be a great QB, but he is a sophomore and no guarantee he is in the 2021 draft. Second, we have the 1st overall pick in 2020 so it is not a what if Burrow is available, we know he is available.

I am with others, this thread made no sense until you showed your true colors, you did not want a debate, you wanted others to bash Burrow as our pick.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-29-2019, 11:30 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Again he point is knowing how Burrow stacks up compared to other QBs.  People always want the best QB, which is a mistake as the right QB is usually the better option.  However if we want the best and we have 2 QBs right now that are coming into the league, Burrow this year and Lawrence next year, then it is prudent to look at who is the better prospect and take that one.

I disagree that we miss out on Lawrence from the perspective of competent management, but we both know that we don't have that and in reality you are right, we would miss out on Lawrence.

You have answered that Lawrence is the better QB...

That is the point of the thread.  Quit looking for angles.  There isn't any.

Now the way to go about Lawrence from a competent management standpoint.  This year we take Thomas and work on solidifying that OLine.  Even if great Andy shows up and we have the 32nd pick in the draft we can trade up (even if it by a lot) to draft Lawrence next year.  It depends one where we are exactly but again I use the extremes to show the possibility.  We trade Dalton (after Tagging him) and our 1st round pick and the following year's 2nd round that could be a conditional 1st, to the team that has the 1st pick.  If that team doesn't want/need Dalton then trade 2 1st round picks and a 3rd that could be conditional to 2nd.

This way, you have an OLine and a QB for the future.

Joe Burrow is the sure thing.  He's available this year, and the Bengals have first choice in the draft.

What you are proposing is a lot of supposition, what if's, and counting on unpredictable things to all fall a certain way.  (which really seems unfeasible in reality)

[*bfine32*]

I'd most likely take Peyton Manning over Burrow if they were in the same draft, but they are not. So gimme Joe Cool

[masonbengals fan]

OP has been on a Burrow bashing tear for days.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(12-29-2019, 11:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'd most likely take Peyton Manning over Burrow if they were in the same draft, but they are not. So gimme Joe Cool

Peyton Farving is one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game. That's who I'd pick if I were drafting first overall.

OP is bad and you cant really compare the 2. Tgey both are in different draft classes and the Bengals better not be drafting first overall again next year.

[Big Boss]

Trevor Lawrence may not declare next year. And we may not be in a position to draft Trevor Lawrence when he does declare.

If you think Burrow has the potential to be a franchise QB, take the guy you know you can get now.

[tBengal]

You take Burrow since we have the pick and he’s available(and he will be and should be our pick). Don’t care about What if’s.

[jj22]

Someone missed the teachings about a bird in a hand...

[Big Boss]

Nah it's totally fine. All we have to do is:

1) Hope Lawrence declares next year.
2A) Hope we win less than 2 games next year.
2B) Hope that the Bengals are willing to give up the farm to trade up to #1 overall.
3B) Hope that whatever team is picking #1 next year is even willing to accept that offer.

Perfectly realistic scenarios that we can totes plan around.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-29-2019, 01:48 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Nah it's totally fine.  All we have to do is:

1) Hope Lawrence declares next year.
2A) Hope we win less than 2 games next year.
2B) Hope that the Bengals are willing to give up the farm to trade up to #1 overall.
3B) Hope that whatever team is picking #1 next year is even willing to accept that offer.  

Perfectly realistic scenarios that we can totes plan around.

It's amazing how facts and common sense are so hard to grasp for some people...

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 11:45 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Now we know the point of the thread, you don't like Burrow (not Burrows as you don't even know his name).

Sadly, you can't play the what if game and get the guy you want. Number 1, Lawrence is a great leader and I think will be a great QB, but he is a sophomore and no guarantee he is in the 2021 draft. Second, we have the 1st overall pick in 2020 so it is not a what if Burrow is available, we know he is available.

I am with others, this thread made no sense until you showed your true colors, you did not want a debate, you wanted others to bash Burrow as our pick.

How can I not know his name... everyone post it and talks about him.  Get over the extra letter that happens from time to time.  Burrow or Burrows, you know who the person is.  This is such a weak position.

You can play the what if game and it is simple here let me show you.

Is Burrows better than Mahomes, Jackson, Mayfield, Watson or Lawrence.  If he is NOT then you don't take him.  Why take a guy you aren't 100% sure on?  Burrows will have to play against these guys while he is in the league and IF he isn't the guy that can beat them then why waste the pick?

My stance on Burrow has been pretty clear.  He will be the pick, it will be a mistake.   Now I am comparing him to other QBs to get other posters take on which of these 2 they would take.  Looks like they will take Burrow and that is fine. 

Of course all they seem to go on are these year's numbers.  Post a pass that the WR made a great adjustment in order to make the catch.  Of course the QB gets credit for the completion, but that is more on the talent of the WR making a great adjustment.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 01:48 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Nah it's totally fine.  All we have to do is:

1) Hope Lawrence declares next year.
2A) Hope we win less than 2 games next year.
2B) Hope that the Bengals are willing to give up the farm to trade up to #1 overall.
3B) Hope that whatever team is picking #1 next year is even willing to accept that offer.  

Perfectly realistic scenarios that we can totes plan around.

Well, all we have to do is draft Burrow.... SB bound, right?

Sure you can plan around it.  You don't know if Lawrence will declare... but c'mon he is being looked at as a 1st round talent since last year's performance.  Not too many players pass on going into the NFL when they know they will be the 1st overall pick.  It does happen but not very likely.

We could lose every game next year... even with Burrow.  If we did, what would you do?  Take Lawrence and trade Burrow.  Take Lawrence and have him compete with Burrow?  Trade for picks?

I have already posted that in reality the Bengals wouldn't make the moves needed to move up, we don't have competent management and that is the main reason to actually take Burrow this year.  Yet, I will say that if we had competent management then that would change things quite a bit.

The team picking first overall would trade out of that position if the offer is just right.  Hell if someone were to offer us a lot for the first pick, wouldn't we be stupid to NOT take it?  There are teams that have QBs already on their teams and they may have the 1st pick and they may be more interested in getting picks over Lawrence.  Much like you would probably suggest we do if we happen to have the 1st pick next year.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-29-2019, 01:34 PM)jj22 Wrote: Someone missed the teachings about a bird in a hand...

Well if the bird in the hand is a rubber chicken... then the 2 real birds in the bush are better.