Double-dip at WR this year?

[*ochocincos*]

(01-03-2020, 02:29 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Just doesn’t seem like a pressing need to me. Atkins is getting paid a lot of money. He needs to be on the field. Whether we’re seeing the start of his decline, or it was just a down year remains to be seen.

And what happens if Atkins is hurt for any period of time?
Do we trust Andrew Brown to come in and be that replacement?
I don't.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-03-2020, 10:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote: And what happens if Atkins is hurt for any period of time?
Do we trust Andrew Brown to come in and be that replacement?
I don't.

Right, but we can’t address every single position in one offseason. Where does DT rank as far as need right now compared to say WR, OL, DB, etc.

Maybe if there’s a good one that’s the BPA that falls to us ok, but I don’t think it should be high on our priority list.

[Whatever]

(01-03-2020, 10:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote: And what happens if Atkins is hurt for any period of time?
Do we trust Andrew Brown to come in and be that replacement?
I don't.

They also still have Glasgow, although he has injury concerns.

Thing is, it's unlikely a day 3 pick at DT is going to come in and be better than Brown and Glasgow as a rookie.  You're looking at a day 2 pick and I think we have more immediate needs.

I agree we should find a guy to groom, but it seems like something we can do next year.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-03-2020, 11:18 AM)Whatever Wrote: They also still have Glasgow, although he has injury concerns.

Thing is, it's unlikely a day 3 pick at DT is going to come in and be better than Brown and Glasgow as a rookie.  You're looking at a day 2 pick and I think we have more immediate needs.

I agree we should find a guy to groom, but it seems like something we can do next year.

I forgot about Glasgow but I also don't see him as an ideal 3T. He's never had a sack in 24 games played.
I'd be looking in Rd 3-4 for someone who offers more proven pass rush ability.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-03-2020, 11:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Right, but we can’t address every single position in one offseason. Where does DT rank as far as need right now compared to say WR, OL, DB, etc.

Maybe if there’s a good one that’s the BPA that falls to us ok, but I don’t think it should be high on our priority list.

I have DT as a higher need than DB personally. I have it below QB, OL, LB, and WR.
But if there was a position I'd be ok skipping, I'd skip LB due to lack of great class. I'd dive into FA for LB and draft a Day 3 guy for depth.
This is a strong WR class, so I'd even be ok going WR after DT due to projected talent available on Day 3.

Personally, I'm looking at Justin Madubuike from A&M in Rd 3-4. I like his skill set and proven 2-year production in the SEC.

[Whatever]

(01-03-2020, 11:47 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I forgot about Glasgow but I also don't see him as an ideal 3T. He's never had a sack in 24 games played.
I'd be looking in Rd 3-4 for someone who offers more proven pass rush ability.

I hear you, and I agree it's not ideal.  They would probably move Dunlap inside on passing Downs and roll with Hubbard and Lawson at DE.  

However, if we're talking about guys going down, Mixon would be 10x worse than Atkins.  We'd have a rookie QB and zero run game.  They really need to be seriously looking at RB's in the first few rounds.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-03-2020, 12:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: I hear you, and I agree it's not ideal.  They would probably move Dunlap inside on passing Downs and roll with Hubbard and Lawson at DE.  

However, if we're talking about guys going down, Mixon would be 10x worse than Atkins.  We'd have a rookie QB and zero run game.  They really need to be seriously looking at RB's in the first few rounds.

Seriously doubt that happens after paying Gio, and drafting 2 RB’s last year.

[Au165]

The whole argument of "If X goes down" is one that really has to be approached secondary. We don't have a roster where our starters are productive enough to be worrying abut if starters go down what will the back ups do. Assuming AJ is gone, we flat out don't have three startable WR's on this team. Boyd and Tate can start but after that I don't see Ross/Erickson as guys you go into a season slotted as starters with. You can make that same argument for the O line, however I am not sure which positions the staff feels that way about (or if they do for sure). LB falls in this group as well however I think they surround Pratt with a veteran or two over adding another rookie to the group.

After that you go to planning for future contract issues that are coming down the pipe. That moves CB high on my list with the noted contracts coming up of WJ3, Dennard, and the large contract currently sitting out there with Dre. Shawn Williams is also on the last year of his contract next year along with Joe Mixon so I would not be surprised if day 3 we add players at both of these positions.

Then after that you are looking for value and depth. I think that is how we ended up adding Wren last year and if a good value falls I could see adding a DT or DE but I wouldn't expect either to be a high priority when compared to other more pressing needs.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-03-2020, 12:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: I hear you, and I agree it's not ideal.  They would probably move Dunlap inside on passing Downs and roll with Hubbard and Lawson at DE.  

However, if we're talking about guys going down, Mixon would be 10x worse than Atkins.  We'd have a rookie QB and zero run game.  They really need to be seriously looking at RB's in the first few rounds.

Disagree wholeheartedly on the RBs.
Bernard, Williams, and Anderson. Not to mention there will always be FA RBs that can be picked up midseason who can fill in fine.
RB isn't nearly as big of a deal as DT in my eyes.

[Au165]

(01-03-2020, 12:22 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Seriously doubt that happens after paying Gio, and drafting 2 RB’s last year.

Anderson may be done after suffering another serious injury. Gio based on his contract is very cuttable and to me appears to be insurance in the event Mixon holds out (strictly based off contract structure). I think HB is in play day 3.

[Whatever]

(01-03-2020, 12:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Disagree wholeheartedly on the RBs.
Bernard, Williams, and Anderson. Not to mention there will always be FA RBs that can be picked up midseason who can fill in fine.
RB isn't nearly as big of a deal as DT in my eyes.

I love Gio, but had 170 rushing yards last year.  He is not going to be able to hack it if forced to be the primary back. I think the fact that we saw all these young guys get opportunities this year and Williams didn't see a single snap on offense is very telling.  Who knows if Anderson can bounce back from another serious injury?

A potential holdout that stretches into the regular season is another potential scenario with Joe, sadly.  If an extension isn't done by the draft, you need to draft his replacement.  If you do get an extension done, you still need to protect him with a good timeshare.  Joe won't last long with his physical style shouldering 250+ carries a year.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-03-2020, 02:02 PM)Whatever Wrote: I love Gio, but had 170 rushing yards last year.  He is not going to be able to hack it if forced to be the primary back. I think the fact that we saw all these young guys get opportunities this year and Williams didn't see a single snap on offense is very telling.  Who knows if Anderson can bounce back from another serious injury?

A potential holdout that stretches into the regular season is another potential scenario with Joe, sadly.  If an extension isn't done by the draft, you need to draft his replacement.  If you do get an extension done, you still need to protect him with a good timeshare.  Joe won't last long with his physical style shouldering 250+ carries a year.

That's fair, but you didn't mention what else I said, which is look into the FA market.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/running-back/

There will be solid RB options to pick from and be half the cost of what Mixon will cost, guaranteed.

[Whatever]

(01-03-2020, 02:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's fair, but you didn't mention what else I said, which is look into the FA market.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/running-back/

There will be solid RB options to pick from and be half the cost of what Mixon will cost, guaranteed.

Why spend money on a FA RB who's already past his prime when you can draft a younger, cheaper option, particularly when you're rebuilding?  DT's usually take a couple of years to develop, so it would make more sense to spend the FA dollars there if it's a concern.

The other big issue is that the hard reality is that Lou Anarumo can fail.  Joe Burrow cannot.  Neither can Zac Taylor.  The offense has to be the  priority this off-season.  

[*ochocincos*]

(01-03-2020, 03:07 PM)Whatever Wrote: Why spend money on a FA RB who's already past his prime when you can draft a younger, cheaper option, particularly when you're rebuilding?  DT's usually take a couple of years to develop, so it would make more sense to spend the FA dollars there if it's a concern.

The other big issue is that the hard reality is that Lou Anarumo can fail.  Joe Burrow cannot.  Neither can Zac Taylor.  The offense has to be the  priority this off-season.  

Because it's cheaper to find a quality (keyword = quality, not elite) RB in FA than it is a good DL, OL, QB, WR, CB, LB, TE.

Look, I'm fine if the Bengals wanted to go Round 5 or later on a RB since the likelihood of getting any decent player at other positions isn't going to be high, but I don't want to see a "premium pick" (rd 1-4) go to a RB so soon.

[Whatever]

(01-03-2020, 04:12 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Because it's cheaper to find a quality (keyword = quality, not elite) RB in FA than it is a good DL, OL, QB, WR, CB, LB, TE.

Look, I'm fine if the Bengals wanted to go Round 5 or later on a RB since the likelihood of getting any decent player at other positions isn't going to be high, but I don't want to see a "premium pick" (rd 1-4) go to a RB so soon.

Most of the decent guys have injury issues and aren't going to be able to carry the load for a lengthy period of time.  They're cheap for a reason.

It's a hard sell.  We kept 6 DT's, which is a large number for that group, this year.  Geno took 76% of the defensive snaps. Mixon took 59% of the Offensive snaps.  A RB is going to play more in ideal circumstances, let alone a major injury/holdout situation.   We are much better stocked at DT than RB.

At the end of the day, I'm not completely against taking a DT if they are the BPA and I'm not saying to reach for a RB, either, but they should definitely draft one early if there is value.

[Benton]

(01-03-2020, 11:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Right, but we can’t address every single position in one offseason. Where does DT rank as far as need right now compared to say WR, OL, DB, etc.

Maybe if there’s a good one that’s the BPA that falls to us ok, but I don’t think it should be high on our priority list.

Ol isn't as bad as people think.

Jordan and Johnson are coming along. We'll get Jonah back. There's some rotational guys, some depth and some starters.

Our dl, on the other hand, is only serviceable because of some guys aging out. And we don't seem to have any replacements for them. 

We need some dl, some lb and at least one receiver. Offensive linemen should be a low priority, especially considering what's available this year.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-04-2020, 01:53 AM)Benton Wrote: Ol isn't as bad as people think.

Jordan and Johnson are coming along. We'll get Jonah back. There's some rotational guys, some depth and some starters.

Our dl, on the other hand, is only serviceable because of some guys aging out. And we don't seem to have any replacements for them. 

We need some dl, some lb and at least one receiver. Offensive linemen should be a low priority, especially considering what's available this year.

Jordan is terrible. Idk what he’s done to make a case for “coming along.”

The DL otoh was straight up dominant the last 5-6 weeks of the season. And it wasn’t just Dunlap. Lawson looks like he’s back to where he was before the injury. Hubbard continues to make big plays. I posted it elsewhere but look at what just those two did since late November...

Hubbard 16 solo tackles, 5 TFL, 5.5 sacks, 5 QB hits

Lawson 13 solo tackles, 4 TFL, 3 sacks, 16 QB hits,


I’d actually say DL is the single biggest strength of the entire team.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-04-2020, 02:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Jordan is terrible. Idk what he’s done to make a case for “coming along.”

The DL otoh was straight up dominant the last 5-6 weeks of the season. And it wasn’t just Dunlap. Lawson looks like he’s back to where he was before the injury. Hubbard continues to make big plays. I posted it elsewhere but look at what just those two did since late November...

Hubbard 16 solo tackles, 5 TFL, 5.5 sacks, 5 QB hits

Lawson 13 solo tackles, 4 TFL, 3 sacks, 16 QB hits,


I’d actually say DL is the single biggest strength of the entire team.

Actually, he did make some improvement in the 2nd half of the year. 

His pass blocking grade was 70+ in 6 of the last 8 weeks and he had his best overall game against the Browns with a 71.7 (70+ grade across the board). 

I don't think it's a coincidence that his improvements happened when the LT stiutation started getting better. Other than the Browns, his run blocking was still sub-par which kept his overall grade down, but things were looking up for him compared to the 1st half of the year. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-04-2020, 02:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Actually, he did make some improvement in the 2nd half of the year. 

His pass blocking grade was 70+ in 6 of the last 8 weeks and he had his best overall game against the Browns with a 71.7 (70+ grade across the board). 

I don't think it's a coincidence that his improvements happened when the LT stiutation started getting better. Other than the Browns, his run blocking was still sub-par which kept his overall grade down, but things were looking up for him compared to the 1st half of the year. 

Hmm...he graded out at 43.1 That’s horrendous. I guess I didn’t notice the improvement, but if you guys say there was some, that’s at least somewhat encouraging.

[Nicomo Cosca]

I’d still say the OL needs a hell of a lot more work than the DL though. Which was the initial point I was responding to.