Why not keep Andy as a backup?

[MEBengalsFan]

(01-24-2020, 02:25 PM)jason Wrote: Earlier in the season the Patriots would've been 500 if the offense never took a single snap. That's how many points the defense was scoring. It fell off over time but still.

A strong D and an ok offense can get a team into the playoffs and sometimes even a bye week. PATS are a great example of that. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-24-2020, 03:06 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: A strong D and an ok offense can get a team into the playoffs and sometimes even a bye week. PATS are a great example of that. 

True, but you take the Franchise QB first and build around him. Burrow is that guy. On Defense we need better coaching and
more athletic better tackling LB's. We have a talented D-line and a talented Secondary. We aren't that far off on Defense as 
long as the Linebackers are addressed and the coaching improves and we stay healthy.

If we can get our Offense on track which was the worst in the league last year it will keep our Defense off the field and fresh
resulting in better play all around. Burrow would help with this more than any other player. Solidify the OL, draft Burrow and 
build the team around him.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-24-2020, 03:01 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: If the Bengals record was 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7 getting Burrow may get them over the hump and their first playoff win. The same was thought with Palmer, though it never materialized. 

The issue is the Bengals ended the year at 2-14. That means there are many issues across the board, not just the QB play. 

I know that. I never said QB was the only issue.

[zygrot24]

(01-19-2020, 08:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A few threads have been derailed because this has become the topic of discussion. I'm of the opinion that keeping Andy around to mentor the new franchise QB can pay dividends far beyond the expensive backup QB Mikey would have to pay for next year.

If we would have brought in another vet (Rivers, Cam, Mariota, Winston< Bridgewater....) I'd want to part with AD, but we are going with a rookie on a rookie contract, so it makes sense to keep him.

I've provided some choices and feel free to vote and expound. But what is your #1 reason not to keep Andy.

(mad not made)

The number 1 reason to not keep him is the money. See if you can get at least a 3rd rounder for him. If not cut him. It's the dawn of a new age.

[MEBengalsFan]

(01-24-2020, 03:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True, but you take the Franchise QB first and build around him. Burrow is that guy. On Defense we need better coaching and
more athletic better tackling LB's. We have a talented D-line and a talented Secondary. We aren't that far off on Defense as 
long as the Linebackers are addressed and the coaching improves and we stay healthy.

If we can get our Offense on track which was the worst in the league last year it will keep our Defense off the field and fresh
resulting in better play all around. Burrow would help with this more than any other player. Solidify the OL, draft Burrow and 
build the team around him.

Many of the top rated QBs drafted in the 1st round playing for teams that made the playoffs were drafted by teams that were in the middle of the pack. Many 2-14 teams still stink after drafting a young signal caller to lead the team. Browns anyone! 

If the Bengals were 7-9 and didn't have the first pick; I would trade to #1 to get Burrow. With the Bengals being 2-14 getting Burrow is nice and would be great if the Bengals do enough in the draft and FA to improve the rest of the team. Since the Bengals don't get top quality FA and their drafting has been below average Burrow won't make a difference. If the Bengals are able to bring in quality FA and draft players that can make an impact to the team immediately this year Burrow will be a brilliant as a Bengal. However, I don't trust the FO to make such moves. Do you? 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-27-2020, 12:11 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: Many of the top rated QBs drafted in the 1st round playing for teams that made the playoffs were drafted by teams that were in the middle of the pack. Many 2-14 teams still stink after drafting a young signal caller to lead the team. Browns anyone! 

If the Bengals were 7-9 and didn't have the first pick; I would trade to #1 to get Burrow. With the Bengals being 2-14 getting Burrow is nice and would be great if the Bengals do enough in the draft and FA to improve the rest of the team. Since the Bengals don't get top quality FA and their drafting has been below average Burrow won't make a difference. If the Bengals are able to bring in quality FA and draft players that can make an impact to the team immediately this year Burrow will be a brilliant as a Bengal. However, I don't trust the FO to make such moves. Do you? 

Never can trust the FO to make the right moves.

Still think Burrow would make a difference in a good way regardless but the FO needs to put good players around him or it 
definitely won't be as big of a difference that is for sure.

[MEBengalsFan]

(01-27-2020, 03:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Never can trust the FO to make the right moves.

Still think Burrow would make a difference in a good way regardless but the FO needs to put good players around him or it 
definitely won't be as big of a difference that is for sure.

Go look at Burrow thank you from the championship game. He realizes his success was all do to his OL. What OL did the Bengals have last year? One where each week it seemed like a new face was starting. You cannot have that at the NFL and expect a QB to produce week in and week out if there are constant changes at the OL. 

The Bengal offense coaches and line coach need to figure out who are the starts in camp and if they don't have someone that can start find someone. The same goes for the DL. Both sides of the ball need quality starters. Without quality starters on the line you and pretty know that we can count the wins for this coming season on one hand or two if the Bengals get lucky. I'm not expecting anything more than maybe 5 or 6 wins this season, regardless who starts at QB. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-27-2020, 04:36 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: Go look at Burrow thank you from the championship game. He realizes his success was all do to his OL. What OL did the Bengals have last year? One where each week it seemed like a new face was starting. You cannot have that at the NFL and expect a QB to produce week in and week out if there are constant changes at the OL. 

The Bengal offense coaches and line coach need to figure out who are the starts in camp and if they don't have someone that can start find someone. The same goes for the DL. Both sides of the ball need quality starters. Without quality starters on the line you and pretty know that we can count the wins for this coming season on one hand or two if the Bengals get lucky. I'm not expecting anything more than maybe 5 or 6 wins this season, regardless who starts at QB. 

If they just sit on their hands in FA I agree with you.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-27-2020, 04:36 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: Go look at Burrow thank you from the championship game. He realizes his success was all do to his OL. What OL did the Bengals have last year? One where each week it seemed like a new face was starting. You cannot have that at the NFL and expect a QB to produce week in and week out if there are constant changes at the OL. 

The Bengal offense coaches and line coach need to figure out who are the starts in camp and if they don't have someone that can start find someone. The same goes for the DL. Both sides of the ball need quality starters. Without quality starters on the line you and pretty know that we can count the wins for this coming season on one hand or two if the Bengals get lucky. I'm not expecting anything more than maybe 5 or 6 wins this season, regardless who starts at QB. 

What do you expect him to say “I balled out and was responsible for 6 TD’s even though my OL let me take one of the hardest hits of my life” “this one was mostly me” LOL

[3wt]

Without reading everyone else's to me it's a combination, but the primary thing is freeing up the cap space to build the infrastructure (o-line, another WR, LB and CB.

The considerations of doing right by Andy and getting a draft pick are legitimate but secondary.

I'd say the chances of Burrow being as good as he looks are very good. If not we'll be going for a QB next year - probably the Clemson guy.

Burrow appears to be as NFL ready if anyone could be. He does not need Andy with a clip board. We have QB coaches. It's nice insurance and the ideal in terms of a transition piece, but not necessary. And it would be uncomfortable or both and maddening to Andy.

If we protect him and make sure he's got a couple of deep weapons I think Burrow will flourish.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-27-2020, 04:40 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What do you expect him to say “I balled out and was responsible for 6 TD’s even though my OL let me take one of the hardest hits of my life” “this one was mostly me” LOL

Maybe that would make some of these Burrow haters like him better ha ha...

I don't know if I have ever seen a more sure #1 overall pick.

Also Tua had a better O-line and didn't play as well and got hurt behind said better O-line.

(01-27-2020, 04:43 PM)3wt Wrote: Without reading everyone else's to me it's a combination, but the primary thing is freeing up the cap space to build the infrastructure (o-line, another WR, LB and CB.

The considerations of doing right by Andy and getting a draft pick are legitimate but secondary.

I'd say the chances of Burrow being as good as he looks are very good.   If not we'll be going for a QB next year - probably the Clemson guy.

Burrow appears to be as NFL ready if anyone could be.   He does not need Andy with a clip board.   We have QB coaches.  It's nice insurance and the ideal in terms of a transition piece, but not necessary.    And it would be uncomfortable or both and maddening to Andy.

If we protect him and make sure he's got a couple of deep weapons I think Burrow will flourish.

I feel the same.

With Jonah coming to play and Hopkins growing into his own at Center we have a couple of nice pieces. 

Add in the Jordan should grow in his second season after starting quite a few games and us having lots of dough to spend 
and the first pick in each round we can easily take care of the O-line to shore it up. Turner also made good improvements as
the year went on unlike I would of ever expected from PA.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(01-19-2020, 11:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: NYG did it last year (actually paid $6 mil more) and KCC (hey what are they doing in 2 weeks) paid Smith much more than that while taking Mahomes. 

You got me, I said 31 instead of 29.  The Giants wanted to reward their boy and Mahomes was considered an extremely raw prospect who might boom or bust by most of the world when they had Smith on the roster.  You are technically correct, BUT, typically number one overall picks don't sit anymore.  The contracts aren't long enough for one.  For two, it only makes sense to do that if you believe that your roster is SB worthy.  Whoever is going to be under center in 2020 is going to need some help in order to sustain drives.

[Stewy]

Ok there seems to be an assumption that Burrow starts next year no matter what.  I haven't been following every thread, but a logical course of action would be:

Keep Andy as the starter in 2020, while...
...building up the lines and weapons, while...
...Burrow learns the system, giving...
...another year to improve the team before handing the Burrow the reigns.

I truly think last year was a purposeful tank, with everyone involved from Taylor up to MB in on it.  The play calling was bad, the offense vanilla, and critical decision making which was obvious usually ended up the opposite.  One could assume that Taylor is just useless and over his head, but he isn't dumb, thus I feel they tanked on purpose, which basically meant submarining Andy from the start.  I would point out the that last two games after the top pick had been locked up, all of the above got better, play calling got more logical, they ran the ball when it made sense, etc.

So my Pollyanna view is that all this was planned, and the most logical course would be rebuild with Andy for a year, where he gets an opportunity to show the rest of the NFL he didn't completely suck last year.  Andy gets another job in 2021 with Burrow taking the reigns here after a two year rebuild instead of being thrown straight into the fire.

Of course I could be completely wrong and Taylor is complete trash, then none of this matters anyway.  Burrow or not, it won't matter.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-04-2020, 01:32 PM)Stewy Wrote: Ok there seems to be an assumption that Burrow starts next year no matter what.  I haven't been following every thread, but a logical course of action would be:

Keep Andy as the starter in 2020, while...
...building up the lines and weapons, while...
...Burrow learns the system, giving...
...another year to improve the team before handing the Burrow the reigns.

I truly think last year was a purposeful tank, with everyone involved from Taylor up to MB in on it.  The play calling was bad, the offense vanilla, and critical decision making which was obvious usually ended up the opposite.  One could assume that Taylor is just useless and over his head, but he isn't dumb, thus I feel they tanked on purpose, which basically meant submarining Andy from the start.  I would point out the that last two games after the top pick had been locked up, all of the above got better, play calling got more logical, they ran the ball when it made sense, etc.

So my Pollyanna view is that all this was planned, and the most logical course would be rebuild with Andy for a year, where he gets an opportunity to show the rest of the NFL he didn't completely suck last year.  Andy gets another job in 2021 with Burrow taking the reigns here after a two year rebuild instead of being thrown straight into the fire.

Of course I could be completely wrong and Taylor is complete trash, then none of this matters anyway.  Burrow or not, it won't matter.

I'm open to the possibility that last season was a tank job, and it crossed my mind many times. That said, I strongly disagree that keeping Andy and redshirting Burrow is the logical move. Maybe when it comes to this team, but a normal franchise would trade or dump Andy, and use our massive cap space to shore up the line and other weak spots.

One strong free agency and a solid draft could easily have this team in contention, or at the very least serviceable around Burrow...without wasting a year of his affordable rookie deal. Besides, if we really were tanking last year, we may not be as far off as some think. A more creative offense, Jonah coming back, a solid free agency/draft and we're right in it.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-04-2020, 01:32 PM)Stewy Wrote: Ok there seems to be an assumption that Burrow starts next year no matter what.  I haven't been following every thread, but a logical course of action would be:

Keep Andy as the starter in 2020, while...
...building up the lines and weapons, while...
...Burrow learns the system, giving...
...another year to improve the team before handing the Burrow the reigns.

I truly think last year was a purposeful tank, with everyone involved from Taylor up to MB in on it.  The play calling was bad, the offense vanilla, and critical decision making which was obvious usually ended up the opposite.  One could assume that Taylor is just useless and over his head, but he isn't dumb, thus I feel they tanked on purpose, which basically meant submarining Andy from the start.  I would point out the that last two games after the top pick had been locked up, all of the above got better, play calling got more logical, they ran the ball when it made sense, etc.

So my Pollyanna view is that all this was planned, and the most logical course would be rebuild with Andy for a year, where he gets an opportunity to show the rest of the NFL he didn't completely suck last year.  Andy gets another job in 2021 with Burrow taking the reigns here after a two year rebuild instead of being thrown straight into the fire.

Of course I could be completely wrong and Taylor is complete trash, then none of this matters anyway.  Burrow or not, it won't matter.

Dalton will cost 17 million this year and Burrow is as ready as a rookie QB can get and is much better moving in the pocket.

I don't think it was planned that seems pretty far fetched but we did see improvement in the last 4 games or so.

Take Burrow, build the Line around him, he starts day 1 barring injury.

[*Nately120*]

(02-04-2020, 04:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dalton will cost 17 million this year and Burrow is as ready as a rookie QB can get and is much better moving in the pocket.

I don't think it was planned that seems pretty far fetched but we did see improvement in the last 4 games or so.

Take Burrow, build the Line around him, he starts day 1 barring injury.

Agreed.  Plus if we keep Dalton how long can we expect him to play before he gets benched for Burrow?  Seeing as ZT benched Dalton to play Ryan Finley I'd expect the hook for Dalton to be exceedingly short this time around.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-04-2020, 04:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Agreed.  Plus if we keep Dalton how long can we expect him to play before he gets benched for Burrow?  Seeing as ZT benched Dalton to play Ryan Finley I'd expect the hook for Dalton to be exceedingly short this time around.

Plus this would be holding Burrow back from getting experience and if Dalton started out the season poor and got benched 
for Burrow, Burrow would probably be starting out with a losing record. Not a good way to start a career. Take Burrow, make 
him the man, build the team around him. Trade Dalton for whatever you can get.

[*Nately120*]

(02-04-2020, 04:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Plus this would be holding Burrow back from getting experience and if Dalton started out the season poor and got benched 
for Burrow, Burrow would probably be starting out with a losing record. Not a good way to start a career. Take Burrow, make 
him the man, build the team around him. Trade Dalton for whatever you can get.

Yup, if Burrow is half as good as we think he is then I'd say every second this team has him off the field is a waste in both the short-term and the long-term (well, except for when we're on defense, and stuff).

[Bengalholic]

(02-04-2020, 01:32 PM)Stewy Wrote: Ok there seems to be an assumption that Burrow starts next year no matter what.  I haven't been following every thread, but a logical course of action would be:

Keep Andy as the starter in 2020, while...
...building up the lines and weapons, while...
...Burrow learns the system, giving...
...another year to improve the team before handing the Burrow the reigns.

That would be putting Andy in an impossible situation. If you have him starting, with Burrow on the bench, he is going to get crucified with every bad pass or mistake he makes, with the calls for Burrow coming early and often.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-04-2020, 04:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yup, if Burrow is half as good as we think he is then I'd say every second this team has him off the field is a waste in both the short-term and the long-term (well, except for when we're on defense, and stuff).

Yeah and people list his age (23) as a bad thing as he is a little older.

Don't waste a moment with Burrow. He starts immediately.