(02-05-2020, 12:02 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yes you are. There’s literally nothing the kid didn’t accomplish and a very few are still sitting here with their not impressed faces on talking about “one year wonder “ trading the pick, etc.
I will never understand people.
Me neither. Crazy talk from people is all I hear right now from the trade the pick crowd.
The perfect pick is what they are searching for and I cannot see a better pick to be that than Joe Burrow.
Tom Brady in the 7th round is what these guys are searching for.
(02-01-2020, 09:58 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Mahomes was a top 10 pick, and SF sucked until they got Jimmy G. He came in and won his first 5 games for them, and got himself paid. Last season they only won 3 games without him.
SF sucked until John Lynch came in and bolstered BOTH lines with good FA acquisitions and nice drafts picks there. I wonder where he learned that?
(02-05-2020, 11:29 AM)Wyche Wrote: SF sucked until John Lynch came in and bolstered BOTH lines with good FA acquisitions and nice drafts picks there. I wonder where he learned that?
Well, that's not 100% true.
Look at their record without Garapolo. Kinda interesting how they've won so many games since he's been their starter. Amazing what good QB play can do for a team.
(02-05-2020, 11:42 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Well, that's not 100% true.
Look at their record without Garapolo. Kinda interesting how they've won so many games since he's been their starter. Amazing what good QB play can do for a team.
Garrapolo was an improvement over the backups they had starting, no doubt. That's not really saying much though. Look at their RBs' success. They have one of the best olines in the league, and their Dline straight up gets after people. It also helps when you use FA on guys like Richard Sherman instead of washed up guys like we do...lol.
Jimmy is an above average QB, but hasn't shown me much above that. He's a younger version of Alex Smith, in my eyes. That team needed adequate QB play, and that's what he brought. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's not forget, it wasn't long ago that this team was starting Blaine Gabbert.
(02-05-2020, 11:52 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Garrapolo was an improvement over the backups they had starting, no doubt. That's not really saying much though. Look at their RBs' success. They have one of the best olines in the league, and their Dline straight up gets after people. It also helps when you use FA on guys like Richard Sherman instead of washed up guys like we do...lol.
Jimmy is an above average QB, but hasn't shown me much above that. He's a younger version of Alex Smith, in my eyes. That team needed adequate QB play, and that's what he brought. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's not forget, it wasn't long ago that this team was starting Blaine Gabbert.
He was well above average this season. Hair under 4K Yds, 27 TD to 13 INT, 102 rating. They won 5 straight games after trading for him a couple years ago. The difference he’s made out there shouldn’t be downplayed.
(02-05-2020, 11:52 AM)Wyche Wrote: Garrapolo was an improvement over the backups they had starting, no doubt. That's not really saying much though. Look at their RBs' success. They have one of the best olines in the league, and their Dline straight up gets after people. It also helps when you use FA on guys like Richard Sherman instead of washed up guys like we do...lol.
Jimmy is an above average QB, but hasn't shown me much above that. He's a younger version of Alex Smith, in my eyes. That team needed adequate QB play, and that's what he brought. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's not forget, it wasn't long ago that this team was starting Blaine Gabbert.
You're forgetting they sucked the year Jimmy was hurt and that's why they had the #2 pick
(02-05-2020, 12:42 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Me neither. Crazy talk from people is all I hear right now from the trade the pick crowd.
The perfect pick is what they are searching for and I cannot see a better pick to be that than Joe Burrow.
Tom Brady in the 7th round is what these guys are searching for.
Not going to happen, there was only one of those.
Joe doesn't sound like he's going to enjoy being a Bengal, as much as he likes the idea of being the #1 pick.
We appreciate you bringing up Brady. It just helps to reaffirm our thought process, on building a team first. Then put a talented QB in a position to win.
Kurt Warner, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Nick Foles, Phil Simms, Jim Plunkett, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, and yes even TB all won SBs because of the team. Especially, early in TBs career.
Hell, these other guys also led their teams to the big game; Neil O'Donnell, Chris Chandler, Stan Humphries, David Woodley, Jake Delhomme, Rich Gannon, Kerry Collins, Rex Grossman...so on and so forth.
Not calling you out specifically, Nate, just using your post as a reference point. When a QB is playing with other HOF players, they usually do pretty well. Unfortunately, we don't have many of those here.
*Foles is an exception to the rule, but his victory over NE in SB LII epitomizes a "team" win.
People who want the Bengals to model themselves after 49ers...did you watch the Super Bowl? They lost because the other team had the better QB.
Also, are you ok with the bengals drafting 1st round d-lineman for the next three years? Because that's essentially what they did to get that pass rush.
(02-05-2020, 06:37 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Joe doesn't sound like he's going to enjoy being a Bengal, as much as he likes the idea of being the #1 pick.
We appreciate you bringing up Brady. It just helps to reaffirm our thought process, on building a team first. Then put a talented QB in a position to win.
Kurt Warner, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Nick Foles, Phil Simms, Jim Plunkett, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, and yes even TB all won SBs because of the team. Especially, early in TBs career.
Hell, these other guys also led their teams to the big game; Neil O'Donnell, Chris Chandler, Stan Humphries, David Woodley, Jake Delhomme, Rich Gannon, Kerry Collins, Rex Grossman...so on and so forth.
Not calling you out specifically, Nate, just using your post as a reference point. When a QB is playing with other HOF players, they usually do pretty well. Unfortunately, we don't have many of those here.
*Foles is an exception to the rule, but his victory over NE in SB LII epitomizes a "team" win.
Well, this may be all true Coach but it doesn't look like we have a choice. We have to Draft Burrow and build the team around him.
Sure hope the FO goes out and gives him some nice pieces on the OL in FA first of course.
(02-05-2020, 07:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, this may be all true Coach but it doesn't look like we have a choice. We have to Draft Burrow and build the team around him.
Sure hope the FO goes out and gives him some nice pieces on the OL in FA first of course.
First and foremost, I think the kid is special. I want that to be understood. He had a ton of talent surrounding him at LSU. He's the first to say as much. Ts, he would be an improvement for this franchise.
I question his desire to be here? If he doesn't want to be here, it isn't going to work out.
Hence, why I have will continually advocate keeping an open mind with this pick.
Getting a nice haul and perhaps a kid like Jordan Love, or Herbert would be intriguing imho. Love in particular peaks my interest?
All of this said, I do agree that JB is special. I'm just not sure if he's special for Cincinnati and this particular coaching staff.
(02-05-2020, 07:38 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: First and foremost, I think the kid is special. I want that to be understood. He had a ton of talent surrounding him at LSU. He's the first to say as much. Ts, he would be an improvement for this franchise.
I question his desire to be here? If he doesn't want to be here, it isn't going to work out.
Hence, why I have will continually advocate keeping an open mind with this pick.
Getting a nice haul and perhaps a kid like Jordan Love, or Herbert would be intriguing imho. Love in particular peaks my interest?
All of this said, I do agree that JB is special. I'm just not sure if he's special for Cincinnati and this particular coaching staff.
This makes no sense. You question if Burrow can be special here, but you’d be interested in Herbert or Love??
What good is the “haul” if we’re still trotting out a mediocre QB who can’t step up in big games?
(02-05-2020, 07:38 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: First and foremost, I think the kid is special. I want that to be understood. He had a ton of talent surrounding him at LSU. He's the first to say as much. Ts, he would be an improvement for this franchise.
I question his desire to be here? If he doesn't want to be here, it isn't going to work out.
Hence, why I have will continually advocate keeping an open mind with this pick.
Getting a nice haul and perhaps a kid like Jordan Love, or Herbert would be intriguing imho. Love in particular peaks my interest?
All of this said, I do agree that JB is special. I'm just not sure if he's special for Cincinnati and this particular coaching staff.
Eh, I have heard Joe Burrow and his Dad say he would be happy to play here.
You must be getting this stuff from the lying media pundits.
Also, Love nor Herbert are anywhere close to Burrow's level.
The coaching staff needs to improve, they seemed to improve as the year went on and I bet they continue to especially with
Joe Burrow coming in. I would expect the team to stay bad if we passed on Burrow and traded the pick to get one of those
guys. Not impressed with either guy nor any other QB in this Draft besides the injured Tua, who is injured.
(02-05-2020, 07:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This makes no sense. You question if Burrow can be special here, but you’d be interested in Herbert or Love??
What good is the “haul” if we’re still trotting out a mediocre QB who can’t step up in big games?
Agreed, those guys aren't on Burrow's level at all IMO.
(02-05-2020, 07:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This makes no sense. You question if Burrow can be special here, but you’d be interested in Herbert or Love??
What good is the “haul” if we’re still trotting out a mediocre QB who can’t step up in big games?
The ""haul" would most likely be two outstanding blockers, or an outstanding blocker, a first round linebacker, and a franchise QB!!
Those benefits outweigh what one player can bring to the team. It's ok, I don't expect you to see things objectively. You only seem to view this through your subjective lense.
(02-05-2020, 07:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, I have heard Joe Burrow and his Dad say he would be happy to play here.
You must be getting this stuff from the lying media pundits.
Also, Love nor Herbert are anywhere close to Burrow's level.
The coaching staff needs to improve, they seemed to improve as the year went on and I bet they continue to especially with
Joe Burrow coming in. I would expect the team to stay bad if we passed on Burrow and traded the pick to get one of those
guys. Not impressed with either guy nor any other QB in this Draft besides the injured Tua, who is injured.
Agreed, those guys aren't on Burrow's level at all IMO.
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I'm taking the picks if offered. If not, I'm drafting the kid and praying for new ownership.
(02-04-2020, 10:37 PM)spazz70 Wrote: After playing with some modern styles of offense in 2018, LSU brought in an offensive assistant from the New Orleans Saints named Joe Brady. Working alongside offensive coordinator Steve Ensminger, LSU moved to a spread offense that took advantage of their skill players, putting them in a position to succeed. Utilizing their running backs in the passing game, moving their receivers around to get favorable matchups, while using an uptick in play-action.
I have read this same exact or close to statement on several sites...they did not "hand Joe the playbook"....there was an entirely new system put in place, brought in by Brady from New Orleans...Again, I am not bashing Burrow...I just do not think that Burrow improved solely on his physical traits and overall abilities....I think that this system fit him perfectly and it was a perfect storm......For example, if it happens, let's look back on this and see how good of a year Tom Brady has if he leaves New England ( I don't think it will be very good and he will retire) It is called a "system" and any QB with some physical gifts will succeed in that system.
(02-05-2020, 06:37 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Joe doesn't sound like he's going to enjoy being a Bengal, as much as he likes the idea of being the #1 pick.
We appreciate you bringing up Brady. It just helps to reaffirm our thought process, on building a team first. Then put a talented QB in a position to win.
Kurt Warner, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Nick Foles, Phil Simms, Jim Plunkett, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, and yes even TB all won SBs because of the team. Especially, early in TBs career.
Hell, these other guys also led their teams to the big game; Neil O'Donnell, Chris Chandler, Stan Humphries, David Woodley, Jake Delhomme, Rich Gannon, Kerry Collins, Rex Grossman...so on and so forth.
Not calling you out specifically, Nate, just using your post as a reference point. When a QB is playing with other HOF players, they usually do pretty well. Unfortunately, we don't have many of those here.
*Foles is an exception to the rule, but his victory over NE in SB LII epitomizes a "team" win.
So, the question seems to be - do you pass on a potentially elite/franchise QB because other teams have won without elite QB's?
Just my opinion, but in my mind, you wouldn't pass on Peyton Manning (for example) just because Dilfer once won a SB. If a guy is there for the taking that you believe can be great, why not take advantage of that opportunity and build around him?
(02-05-2020, 07:38 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: First and foremost, I think the kid is special. I want that to be understood. He had a ton of talent surrounding him at LSU. He's the first to say as much. Ts, he would be an improvement for this franchise.
I question his desire to be here? If he doesn't want to be here, it isn't going to work out.
Hence, why I have will continually advocate keeping an open mind with this pick.
Getting a nice haul and perhaps a kid like Jordan Love, or Herbert would be intriguing imho. Love in particular peaks my interest?
All of this said, I do agree that JB is special. I'm just not sure if he's special for Cincinnati and this particular coaching staff.
I'm intrigued, what makes you think Burrow doesn't want to be here ? And what makes you think Herbert or Love would want to be here ?
And who can blame them? We need more picks. We won't do much in free agency with Billings and Dennard likely being treated as key free agent signing, so the draft is going to have to be the fix. And that's hard to do with just 7.
Not drafting Burrow isn't the option though.
The fix is commit to turning the roster over and really work to trade players like Dalton, tag and trade Green, trade Glenn, Kirpatrick and Gio. Get as many picks as you can, and get the QB. This draft is deep at WR, CB, RB and some good OT's in the first couple rounds. With a couple extra picks and a sacrifice to the roster here or there for the greater good of the long run would be the ideal way to go.
Until or if that happens, fantasize all you want about grabbing all these favorite prospects in the first 3 rounds. As of now it's 3 picks and hopefully they make the best of them. Trading Burrow is off the table. Even if it takes a couple years to "rebuild" instead of one.
It is interesting that during draft season you always wish for all these picks and that blockbuster trade to a desperate team in need of a QB. One that will give you multiple picks in future years. Here we are at that moment and you can justify passing.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous "Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
(02-05-2020, 08:10 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: The ""haul" would most likely be two outstanding blockers, or an outstanding blocker, a first round linebacker, and a franchise QB!!
Those benefits outweigh what one player can bring to the team. It's ok, I don't expect you to see things objectively. You only seem to view this through your subjective lense.
The fans will never know what was offered for Burrow but I believe MB has no choice but to draft him. You have them getting three "outstanding players" but they haven't drafted three in the last three years. Like it or not he is the bright shiny object that sells season tickets. I know you see everything thru a subjective lens but this is what will happen.
(02-05-2020, 10:12 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The fans will never know what was offered for Burrow but I believe MB has no choice but to draft him. You have them getting three "outstanding players" but they haven't drafted three in the last three years. Like it or not he is the bright shiny object that sells season tickets. I know you see everything thru a subjective lens but this is what will happen.
Perhaps you should look up the meaning of subjective. In fact, my view is the complete opposite. One might even say that my view is objective! You see, I'm good either way we go.
As has been mentioned by others, I see several big holes in a 2-14 team. Aka...more than just one position.
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
You see, I'm good either way we go. 