Sounds like business as usual in free agency

[MEBengalsFan]

(01-24-2020, 04:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When Marvin first arrived the Bengals signed a few quality free agents.  Not big stars, but established starters and/or decently rated players like John Thornton, Tory James, Bobbie Williams, Duane Clemmons, Nate Webster, Reggie Kelly, Kim Herring, and Kevin Hardy.

Then again in 2011, after a 12 loss season, they signed three new defensive starters (Manny Lawson, Thomas Howard, Nate Clemmons).

I am not expecting any top rated free agents, but I do expect more that the last few years.

This is what I expect if ML was here. Not sure how ZT works with the FO to bring in FA. Maybe he wants them to pursue more or he is happy with the team he has. Not sure. ML at least knew he needed to bring new blood into the team; hopefully players that have won at other teams to bring in the winning attitude. ZT needs to do the same thing. Bring players in from winning programs to help improve the morale of the team and fill some of the void on the team. 

With ML gone I'm not sure how FA will go. Hopefully better than last year and if not, well another losing season more than likely to come in 2020. 

[*ochocincos*]

The Bengals would rather have 5 decent guys in the $3-7 mill range than 2 elite guys in the $10-15 mill range.

Look no further than some of the "big" additions/re-signings made last year:
- John Miller ($5.5 mill)
- Bobby Hart ($5.3 mill)
- BW Webb ($3.5 mill)
- Preston Brown ($5.5 mill)
- CJ Uzomah ($6.1 mill)
---------------------------
$26 mill

And all of the above were just "meh" at best.

While this provides less reliance on young players and can help alleviate injuries, it also limits the quality of the team when fully healthy.

At the end of the day, I understand the approach but I disagree with it given its lack of proven results towards winning a championship.

[MEBengalsFan]

(01-27-2020, 12:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals would rather have 5 decent guys in the $3-7 mill range than 2 elite guys in the $10-15 mill range.

Look no further than some of the "big" additions/re-signings made last year:
- John Miller ($5.5 mill)
- Bobby Hart ($5.3 mill)
- BW Webb ($3.5 mill)
- Preston Brown ($5.5 mill)
- CJ Uzomah ($6.1 mill)
---------------------------
$26 mill

And all of the above were just "meh" at best.

While this provides less reliance on young players and can help alleviate injuries, it also limits the quality of the team when fully healthy.

At the end of the day, I understand the approach but I disagree with it given its lack of proven results towards winning a championship.

They brought in 2 new FA; the others you listed were already Bengals from the year before. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-27-2020, 12:44 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: They brought in 2 new FA; the others you listed were already Bengals from the year before. 

Technically they were FAs. They were just internal.

[reuben.ahmed]

(01-27-2020, 01:17 AM)SladeX Wrote: I dunno

Pride in their work.
Decency, sense of duty.
Maybe a shred of f***ing self respect?

Haha, I defnitely get the sense they're one of those "I'm paid either way" employees.

[MEBengalsFan]

(01-27-2020, 02:42 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Technically they were FAs. They were just internal.

I did state new FA, not just FA. :) 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-27-2020, 04:31 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: I did state new FA, not just FA. :) 

That's true, but you stated new FA whereas I did not. I was just talking about FA in general.

[JSR18]

(01-27-2020, 12:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals would rather have 5 decent guys in the $3-7 mill range than 2 elite guys in the $10-15 mill range.

Look no further than some of the "big" additions/re-signings made last year:
- John Miller ($5.5 mill)
- Bobby Hart ($5.3 mill)
- BW Webb ($3.5 mill)
- Preston Brown ($5.5 mill)
- CJ Uzomah ($6.1 mill)
---------------------------
$26 mill

And all of the above were just "meh" at best.

While this provides less reliance on young players and can help alleviate injuries, it also limits the quality of the team when fully healthy.

At the end of the day, I understand the approach but I disagree with it given its lack of proven results towards winning a championship.

That's 8.8 million dollars these 2 clowns got for not putting their pants on backwards. 


I just threw up a little in my mouth...

[J24]

This is why trading the 1st pick makes so much sense if they can get a huge haul because they don't use free agency.

[RunKijanaRun]

(01-29-2020, 02:01 PM)J24 Wrote: This is why trading the 1st pick makes so much sense if they can get a huge haul because they don't use free agency.

Trading the first pick makes NO sense.

You want one Joe Burrow or 13 Drew Samples?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-29-2020, 02:01 PM)J24 Wrote: This is why trading the 1st pick makes so much sense if they can get a huge haul because they don't use free agency.

That is if you believe unproven Draft picks are just as good as proven FA's and Joe Burrow...

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-29-2020, 03:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is if you believe unproven Draft picks are just as good as proven FA's and Joe Burrow...

I've seen this mentioned a few times (that draft picks are unproven) in response to the idea that Joe Burrow js untouchable.  Why is it that Joe Burrow is already "proven" or viewed as a sure thing, while the other 200+ are "unproven"?  Is he not a rookie too? Does he have NFL experience, that picks 2, 3, 4, 5... do not?

Fwiw, I would not trade him for the Dolphins 3 first picks. But if you started adding to that offer (Say, 3 1st, 2 2nds) then I think it needs to be considered and is, at the very least, worthy of discussion.

And I must admit, many of the people now saying they have no faith in our drafting, as a reason to dismiss the idea of listening to offers, are the same people who routinely grade every one of our drafts A, A- and B+'s.

To each their own, but if someone calls up and offers something nuts like 4 1st round picks then I think you have to strongly consider it. If you believe we hit at a lower rate than most, then it make sense to stockpile picks to hedge our bets, so to speak.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-29-2020, 03:26 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I've seen this mentioned a few times (that draft picks are unproven) in response to the idea that Joe Burrow js untouchable.  Why is it that Joe Burrow is already "proven" or viewed as a sure thing, while the other 200+ are "unproven"?  Is he not a rookie too? Does he have NFL experience, that picks 2, 3, 4, 5... do not?

Fwiw, I would not trade him for the Dolphins 3 first picks. But if you started adding to that offer (Say, 3 1st, 2 2nds) then I think it needs to be considered and is, at the very least, worthy of discussion.

And I must admit, many of the people now saying they have no faith in our drafting, as a reason to dismiss the idea of listening to offers, are the same people who routinely grade every one of our drafts A, A- and B+'s.

To each their own, but if someone calls up and offers something nuts like 4 1st round picks then I think you have to strongly consider it. If you believe we hit at a lower rate than most, then it make sense to stockpile picks to hedge our bets, so to speak.

True, Burrow is unproven in the NFL as well. We would be dumb not to consider what you say here. I getcha.

Just find Burrow to be the best QB prospect to come out in a decade or so and this is right when we need a new Franchise QB
and right when we have the first overall pick to get him. We used FA that last time we were in this same position, I think we 
will do the same again and build the team around Burrow and the future will be bright as long as coaching comes along.

The Dolphins first 3 picks are not worth Joe Burrow as you say and I don't see any team offering more than that so I find the 
trading the pick narrative annoying and unrealistic. Especially considering how the Burrow's are talking, namely his father.

[J24]

(01-29-2020, 02:28 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Trading the first pick makes NO sense.

You want one Joe Burrow or 13 Drew Samples?

Or 13 Joe Mixon

[J24]

(01-29-2020, 03:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is if you believe unproven Draft picks are just as good as proven FA's and Joe Burrow...

1.) We're not going to sign free agents thats the whole point of this thread.
2.) Joe Burrow does appear to be the guy but we thought the same thing about Carson and look how that turned out. Whoever the future QB is of the Bengals will need help. If you think he is going to turn this thing around by himself then I don't know what to tell you.
I would rather have a very good QB with a great roster than a great QB with a so so roster.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-29-2020, 04:01 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) We're not going to sign free agents thats the whole point of this thread.
2.) Joe Burrow does appear to be the guy but we thought the same thing about Carson and look how that turned out. Whoever the future QB is of the Bengals will need help. If you think he is going to turn this thing around by himself then I don't know what to tell you.
I would rather have a very good QB with a great roster than a great QB with a so so roster.

1 - We signed FA's like Bobbie Williams the last time we had the first overall pick and needed a QB. Will sign FA's again
especially after the season we just had and the ticket and merchandise sales going down lately. They will have to help 
Burrow, will have to.

2 - If not Joe Burrow who? Who is the QB? I keep seeing these threads and not one of the fans saying trade the pick 
have any notion of a plan. A hurt Tua who played poorly against the best competition? Herbert who panics when plays 
break down and plays his worst against the best competition? Dalton who plays his worst against the best competition?

I would like to hear a plan from any one of you on who would be the QB....

I take the QB who plays his best against the best competition and build the team around him, that is Joe Burrow.

[J24]

(01-29-2020, 04:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: 1 - We signed FA's like Bobbie Williams the last time we had the first overall pick and needed a QB. Will sign FA's again
especially after the season we just had and the ticket and merchandise sales going down lately. They will have to help 
Burrow, will have to.

2 - If not Joe Burrow who? Who is the QB? I keep seeing these threads and not one of the fans saying trade the pick 
have any notion of a plan. A hurt Tua who played poorly against the best competition? Herbert who panics when plays 
break down and plays his worst against the best competition? Dalton who plays his worst against the best competition?

I would like to hear a plan from any one of you on who would be the QB....

I take the QB who plays his best against the best competition and build the team around him, that is Joe Burrow.

1.) Bobbie Williams was what 2004? We haven't participated in free agency since 2011 and there is no reason to believe we will. We should but we won't.
2.) Tyler Huntley from Utah could be a nice player has the athletic ability and accuracy that is similar to Burrow( not as good obviously). I would also thrown in a guy like Jalen Hurts and Jake Fromm as guys that could fit this Offense as well. Are they the perfect fit like Burrow is no but if you add multiple great pieces along with them then I think they will be very successful.

[Bengalholic]

(01-29-2020, 03:26 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I've seen this mentioned a few times (that draft picks are unproven) in response to the idea that Joe Burrow js untouchable.  Why is it that Joe Burrow is already "proven" or viewed as a sure thing, while the other 200+ are "unproven"?  Is he not a rookie too? Does he have NFL experience, that picks 2, 3, 4, 5... do not?

Fwiw, I would not trade him for the Dolphins 3 first picks. But if you started adding to that offer (Say, 3 1st, 2 2nds) then I think it needs to be considered and is, at the very least, worthy of discussion.

And I must admit, many of the people now saying they have no faith in our drafting, as a reason to dismiss the idea of listening to offers, are the same people who routinely grade every one of our drafts A, A- and B+'s.

To each their own, but if someone calls up and offers something nuts like 4 1st round picks then I think you have to strongly consider it. If you believe we hit at a lower rate than most, then it make sense to stockpile picks to hedge our bets, so to speak.

I think when it comes to Burrow, the most important factor is what they believe he is and has the potential to be. If they truly believe he has the talent, character and makeup to be an elite NFL QB...then there's no way any trade should be considered. He's your guy and you move forward with the intent of building everything else around him.

If they're not convinced that he can be elite or they have any reservations about him for whatever reason, then I guess they have to at least listen to offers and if someone blows them away with a deal for a slew of picks, give it very serious consideration.

Personally though, I think it will turn out to be a huge mistake if they pass on him, no matter how good a potential trade is. I just think it's a perfect fit with him and the Bengals. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-29-2020, 04:31 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Bobbie Williams was what 2004? We haven't participated in free agency since 2011 and there is no reason to believe we will. We should but we won't.
2.) Tyler Huntley from Utah could be a nice player has the athletic ability and accuracy that is similar to Burrow( not as good obviously). I would also thrown in a guy like Jalen Hurts and Jake Fromm as guys that could fit this Offense as well. Are they the perfect fit like Burrow is no but if you add multiple great pieces along with them then I think they will be very successful.

We participate, we just never go over the top to make our team a contender. We don't have to go over the top this FA though.

All we have to do is spend the extra money we have which is a lot once we trade Dalton, let Glenn and Kirkpatrick's salary go.

Add a guy like Joe Thuney to play RG and a player like Danny Trevathan or Jamie Collins at LB and we should be good.

At least you gave a plan here J24 unlike any of the other guys that would trade Burrow away. Huntley isn't on Burrow's level, Hurts
isn't accurate and fumbles the ball all the time, I like Fromm okay. None of these guys played like Burrow did against top competition
though, I want a clutch QB. None of these guys are the answer IMO. 

Burrow is.

[fredtoast]

(01-29-2020, 04:31 PM)J24 Wrote:  We haven't participated in free agency since 2011 and there is no reason to believe we will. 

C'mon, man, why you guys always have to lie to upgrade your victim card.

Since 2011 we have signed 1000yd rushers (Green-Ellis), 1000 yd receivers (Brandon LaFell), league leading tacklers (Preston Brown), and key defensive players like Terrence Newman.


Not enough, but a lot more than "nothing".