TJ on Burrow

[*Nately120*]

(02-05-2020, 01:13 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He said players that are good enough make a bad team better.

Is that true or untrue?

It's untrue around here unless you really think we've never had anything higher than the 12th best roster in almost 30 years. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-05-2020, 11:49 AM)Nately120 Wrote: It's untrue around here unless you really think we've never had anything higher than the 12th best roster in almost 30 years. 

We’ve never had that truly special QB during those 30 years. Carson looked like he was going to be a top 3 guy but your boys put and end to that.

[*Nately120*]

(02-05-2020, 11:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We’ve never had that truly special QB during those 30 years. Carson looked like he was going to be a top 3 guy but your boys put and end to that.

Palmer was still good enough to be semi relevant a decade after that 2005 game.  Blaming one hit for our organizational underachieving during his tenure gives way too much credit to the loathsome Steelers. 

My point is Dalton and Palmer were both good enough to achieve more than they did here which indicates an organizational issue and long term issues....go figure.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-05-2020, 11:58 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Palmer was still good enough to be semi relevant a decade after that 2005 game.  Blaming one hit for our organizational underachieving during his tenure gives way too much credit to the loathsome Steelers. 

My point is Dalton and Palmer were both good enough to achieve more than they did here which indicates an organizational issue and long term issues....go figure.

But they weren’t good enough. One playoff win between the two of them, and that’s with Palmer playing for two other teams. If he had lit it up somewhere else maybe you’d have a point.

We had teams that were good enough to win (05, 09, 13, 15) we were either held back by terrible QB play in the playoffs or injuries to our QB’s. Sorry I’m not quick to blame all 53 guys when our QB has like 8x more turnovers than he does TD’s in the postseason.

[*Nately120*]

(02-05-2020, 12:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: But they weren’t good enough. One playoff win between the two of them, and that’s with Palmer playing for two other teams. If he had lit it up somewhere else maybe you’d have a point.

We had teams that were good enough to win (05, 09, 13, 15) we were either held back by terrible QB play in the playoffs or injuries to our QB’s. Sorry I’m not quick to blame all 53 guys when our QB has like 8x more turnovers than he does TD’s in the postseason.

QBs below the Palmer/Dalton line win playoff games every year.  I'd never say Palmer or Dalton are top tier QBs but there is compelling evidence to postulate that playing their prime years for a franchise that has defied the odds as far as playoff futility goes played a strong part in that. 

And that is exactly why the whole faux media concern for Burrow bring a Bengal exists. In 2015 specifically Palmer and Dalton were both in the MVP race, so a combined 16 years of decent QB play leading to less playoff wins than TJ Yates got in a single try indicates an organizational model that places a ceiling on success. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-05-2020, 12:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: QBs below the Palmer/Dalton line win playoff games every year.  I'd never say Palmer or Dalton are top tier QBs but there is compelling evidence to postulate that playing their prime years for a franchise that has defied the odds as far as playoff futility goes played a strong part in that. 

And that is exactly why the whole faux media concern for Burrow bring a Bengal exists. In 2015 specifically Palmer and Dalton were both in the MVP race, so a combined 16 years of decent QB play leading to less playoff wins than TJ Yates got in a single try indicates an organizational model that places a ceiling on success. 

It’s not a one or the other situation. It’s a poorly run franchise, AND we’ve suffered from horrendous QB play in the playoffs.

Just because TJ Yates, Tim Tebow, or whoever else you want to point to didn’t choke in the playoffs that doesn’t mean Dalton or Palmer wouldn’t have on those teams. Palmer had 6 INT in 2 playoff games for Arizona and a rating of 43.2 in one of them.

[*Nately120*]

(02-05-2020, 01:05 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s not a one or the other situation. It’s a poorly run franchise, AND we’ve suffered from horrendous QB play in the playoffs.

Just because TJ Yates, Tim Tebow, or whoever else you want to point to didn’t choke in the playoffs that doesn’t mean Dalton or Palmer wouldn’t have on those teams. Palmer had 6 INT in 2 playoff games for Arizona and a rating of 43.2 in one of them.

Palmer also got a 1st round bye and then beat Aaron Rodgers in his first non Bengals playoff game too.  He also shook the prime time flop syndrome he had as a Bengal even with the sub par Raiders. 

That game vs the Panthers was ghastly but he also had a dislocated index finger on his throwing hand and The whole team was playing some desperate sloppy ball.  Arians in particular can get amazingly reckless when things go awry. The point is that he managed to shake some of the issues he had here, not that he was super awesome. 

Still there has to be a reason perpetually meh teams like the Cardinals, Titans and Jaguars can make it within a game of the SB and the Lions and Bengals and Browns can't. 

[bengals1969]

(02-04-2020, 07:16 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: “We’ve talked about it. We’re not going to say anything negative to Joe about the Bengals. Why would we?” Houshmandzadeh said. “Teams are bad because their players aren’t good enough. If they get that player that’s good enough, guess what happens? Your team isn’t so bad anymore. I’m sure that’s what they’re thinking. I’m sure that’s what Joe thinks. Negative? Not at all.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/04/the-people-in-joe-burrows-orbit-keep-saying-interesting-things/

Finally someone making sense. Dan Patrick, Carson Palmer, and the rest of the salty losers can get ******.

"“Teams are bad because their players aren’t good enough. If they get that player that’s good enough, guess what happens? Your team isn’t so bad anymore."

Shut my mouth and smack my head.  Why aren't players good enough?  Because the front office drafts poorly.  Because the front office signs the wrong FA's.  Because the front office hires the wrong coaches.

Teams are bad because the front office is bad.  In the Bengals case which is easier to fix, the front office or the players?  How long has MB been in the front office with his relatives running the show?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-05-2020, 01:28 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Palmer also got a 1st round bye and then beat Aaron Rodgers in his first non Bengals playoff game too.  He also shook the prime time flop syndrome he had as a Bengal even with the sub par Raiders. 

That game vs the Panthers was ghastly but he also had a dislocated index finger on his throwing hand and The whole team was playing some desperate sloppy ball.  Arians in particular can get amazingly reckless when things go awry. The point is that he managed to shake some of the issues he had here, not that he was super awesome. 

Still there has to be a reason perpetually meh teams like the Cardinals, Titans and Jaguars can make it within a game of the SB and the Lions and Bengals and Browns can't. 

Well, the Cardinals did make it to the Super Bowl. Having Kurt Warner probably played a big part in that...

[*ochocincos*]

(02-04-2020, 10:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Thanks for the history refresher.  Like I said earlier, he was beloved and revered with the Bengals.  It's a shame that his ego got the best of him.

Most good WR2s want to get an opportunity to be WR1.
With Chad still in Cincinnati, there was no way Housh was going to claim that title.

[*Nately120*]

(02-05-2020, 01:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well, the Cardinals did make it to the Super Bowl. Having Kurt Warner probably played a big part in that...

Im just saying Palmer made it to the conference championship in AZ, not here. If Dalton does anything in the playoffs with another team that is going to look pretty damning, too but im not betting on that.  Marvin will likely never HC another playoff game, so confounding variables are all over this. 

Also the post 2008 SB Cardinals didn't do much with Kevin Kolb and Jon Skelton, so Palmer had a hand in their brief resurgence. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-05-2020, 02:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Im just saying Palmer made it to the conference championship in AZ, not here. If Dalton does anything in the playoffs with another team that is going to look pretty damning, too but im not betting on that.  Marvin will likely never HC another playoff game, so confounding variables are all over this. 

Also the post 2008 SB Cardinals didn't do much with Kevin Kolb and Jon Skelton, so Palmer had a hand in their brief resurgence. 

Well yeah, both Palmer and Dalton both fall into the same category; good, but not quite good enough.

Anyway...we just saw a 22 year old QB win MVP, and a 24 year old QB win the Super Bowl. The game has changed, and it’s a QB driven league now more than ever. And the young guys are having a lot of success.

I for one, am excited about Burrow, and the Bengals in general. For the first time in years.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-04-2020, 10:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Thanks for the history refresher.  Like I said earlier, he was beloved and revered with the Bengals.  It's a shame that his ego got the best of him.

He did get $15m guaranteed for that 1 year with the Seahawks, and it's not even like he was bad with the Seahawks with 79 catches/911 yards(11.5 AVG)/3 TD... the problem is we don't know what the Bengals ACTUALLY offered him because we've seen time and time again when they say "we offered comparable/competitive offers" it can mean an entirely different thing than the reality of the rest of the league.

Also don't forget he was part of the pre-Marvin Mike Brown Bengals which apparently were truly awful times compared to just bad times. So it's probably not surprising he wanted to leave.

[JSR18]

(02-05-2020, 01:33 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: "“Teams are bad because their players aren’t good enough. If they get that player that’s good enough, guess what happens? Your team isn’t so bad anymore."

Shut my mouth and smack my head.  Why aren't players good enough?  Because the front office drafts poorly.  Because the front office signs the wrong FA's.  Because the front office hires the wrong coaches.

Teams are bad because the front office is bad.  In the Bengals case which is easier to fix, the front office or the players?  How long has MB been in the front office with his relatives running the show?

I'd like to think there is a happy medium, that also involves the HC and asst. coaches.

The players may not be Pro Bowlers, however, I believe they could be better than what they are. They aren't made to be the players they could be.

I believe they have to be MADE to be good. Remember, these guys aren't playing for the love of the game. They are being paid, and will do just enough to receive each game check.

Therefore, I think its up to the coaches to demand that every play in practice is done no less than 85% from each player. Nobody gets away with anything less. Games, nothing less than 95-100%. Coaches can't be afraid of pulling underachieving players and getting in there faces and DEMANDING perfection.

My Dad always told me:"You'll play the way you practice"

I don't know about anybody else. But when I watch practices in Training Camp, I don't get a sense of urgency and perfection at all. I get the feeling that they're trying to get as many reps as they can in before the buzzer.

Quanity over quality...



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